My problem with Bill Belichick as a coach

[nabwong]

Let me explain to you in 5000 words or more why your post is incorrect on that subject...

I’m waiting for the other 4982 words.

 

[mosi]

The league has changed dramatically since 2004. As a defense, you now have to be careful about how hard you hit a receiver! Rodney would not last 2 weeks in this league. I expect a lot more super-bowls like last year going forward.

 

[Tony2046]

I don't understand the week 2 hoopla . It's week 2. The defense will improve.

It's a complimentary game . All three phases of the game have an affect on each other. Field position helps the offense and defense, long sustained scoring drives helps keep the defense rested and defensive stops gives the ball back to Brady.

None of that was clicking last week. All of that will improve.

This team has been to 7 straight AFCCG'S, been to 3 of the last four Super Bowls while hoisting two more championship banners.

Obviously there has been enough talent to do so.

Furthermore it seems that there are three types of teams. The win nows, the dumpster fires and the seasonal sustainers. BB has maintained a playoff caliber team while managing the cap pretty much every single season for nearly two decades.

Look at the last ten years of the Super Bowl contenders.

1. Arizona- Junk. But hey they've got a pass rusher.

2. Pittsburgh- can't get past Brady or lockerroom web cams. But them receivers are nice and shiny though.

3. Saints - Brees. Aren't starting well.

4. Colts - Lucky horseshoe my ass.

5. Packers - good team as long as Aaron collarbone Rodgers can stay on the field.

6. Giants - hahaha

7. Ravens - Harbawl is 41-41 since winning the SB. Hot seat getting hotter.

8. 49ers - looks like they're in a win it now mode.

9. Seahawks- the legion of gloom. The dynasty that never was.

10. Panthers- decent team that hasn't won anything. Yaaay

11. Broncos- they're fizzling out. They also have a pass rusher.

12 Falcons - Still shell shocked.

13. Eagles - we'll see. But I'll bet they're having fun at 1-1. Woohoo.

It's week 2.

 

[Jackson 2]

None. I said that. I am not saying we should change our coach. He is who he is and we need to take the mostly good with the bad. I just think there is a downside to having BB as a coach and not all upside. His coaching style isn't perfect.

He has a huge ego. He wants the players to do things his way and drafts and keeps guys who do it the way he wants it done. He wants players who can play in his system well and not automatically the best players.

That's fine. Nothing is automatically wrong with it. I think he at times sacrifices the Jimmies and Joes for the Xs and Os too much. He doesn't nurture instincts and shot calling. He doesn't say "make a play". He says "do your job".

"If X Y and Z then you rush. If not then you do this. I don't care if you think you have a read, play the system." That to me is the message BB gives to his players (there is clearly hyperbole here FYI)

If there's no other coach you'd want and you're not looking to change him, WTF is your point?

 

[Clonamery]

None. I said that. I am not saying we should change our coach. He is who he is and we need to take the mostly good with the bad. I just think there is a downside to having BB as a coach and not all upside. His coaching style isn't perfect.

He has a huge ego. He wants the players to do things his way and drafts and keeps guys who do it the way he wants it done. He wants players who can play in his system well and not automatically the best players.

That's fine. Nothing is automatically wrong with it. I think he at times sacrifices the Jimmies and Joes for the Xs and Os too much. He doesn't nurture instincts and shot calling. He doesn't say "make a play". He says "do your job".

"If X Y and Z then you rush. If not then you do this. I don't care if you think you have a read, play the system." That to me is the message BB gives to his players (there is clearly hyperbole here FYI)

I don't know what the **** you want...winning team every year, playoffs, Super Bowls. I don't understand women either.

I’ll just keep whistling past the graveyard until it ends.

 

[edkk323]

People who complain about missing out players in the draft ARE JUST STUPID. The draft is such a crapshoot. The GOAT was a 6th rounder. So was Antonio Brown. Julian Edelamn drafted in 7th round. Tyreek Hill was drafted in 5th round.

Every year, fans think BB and the Pats should done this or should done that. Stop pretending you know any better. Stop pretending you can do better.

You might know how to sign a fat check to the shiniest FA in the current year. But you do not know how to stay competitive for nearly two decades.

You might know how to call a pick using Mel Kiper's rankning. You certainly do not know how to project players' development.

You certainly know how to signal a all-out blitz. You 100% never factored in the opponent's tendencies and the risky-reward ratio from each strategy.

how do you like them apples

 

[PWRxWLF]

B.B. has made some mistakes and drafted some awful players. He’s also made some mistakes and signed some really awful free agents, he’s made some ****ty calls, and let guys walk he shouldn’t have. But, B.B. has also signed some great free agents, made some phenomenal trades, made gutsy cuts, and had some pretty dang good draft picks. It is what it is. Neither view point is wrong.

However, one viewpoint that can’t be disputed, is that because of this man, we have been the greatest football franchise of the last nearly 20 years. The bad, the good, the incredible. I’ll take it!!

 

[MassPats38]

The Pats pay toward the middle in order to build depth and scheme well. That has been the recipe for sustained success, but the lack of high price talent gets exposed when the opponent has a number of highly talented pieces on offense. That doesn't happen often, despite the significant turnover for the Pats D.

World beating defensive pieces tend to go top 10, a position the Pats haven't seen since Mayo. Guys like Reggie White are exciting, which is why teams break the bank to land them.

As for the lack of awe inspiring plays on D, you cannot fake base ability. Decent players do not become Watt or Mack through coaching alone. Given almost two decades of playoff appearances and the effect on all of those drafts, the results would seem to suggest the Pats have a clue about building defenses with available talent. Not exactly the '85 Bears in shock and awe value, but far more hits than misses.

BB makes mistakes. He has and he will in personnel management and coaching. With that said, I would struggle with the "What team now would you rather have?" through the lens of contract management, present performance and future success. There have been many one and done teams that inevitably fall apart shortly after a brief success. I really don't want the team that sucks for a while, has 1 or 2 good years, and then sucks again for a while.

 

[edkk323]

I don't understand the week 2 hoopla . It's week 2. The defense will improve.

It's a complimentary game . All three phases of the game have an affect on each other. Field position helps the offense and defense, long sustained scoring drives helps keep the defense rested and defensive stops gives the ball back to Brady.

None of that was clicking last week. All of that will improve.

This team has been to 7 straight AFCCG'S, been to 3 of the last four Super Bowls while hoisting two more championship banners.

Obviously there has been enough talent to do so.

Furthermore it seems that there are three types of teams. The win nows, the dumpster fires and the seasonal sustainers. BB has maintained a playoff caliber team while managing the cap pretty much every single season for nearly two decades.

Look at the last ten years of the Super Bowl contenders.

1. Arizona- Junk. But hey they've got a pass rusher.

2. Pittsburgh- can't get past Brady or lockerroom web cams. But them receivers are nice and shiny though.

3. Saints - Brees. Aren't starting well.

4. Colts - Lucky horseshoe my ass.

5. Packers - good team as long as Aaron collarbone Rodgers can stay on the field.

6. Giants - hahaha

7. Ravens - Harbawl is 41-41 since winning the SB. Hot seat getting hotter.

8. 49ers - looks like they're in a win it now mode.

9. Seahawks- the legion of gloom. The dynasty that never was.

10. Panthers- decent team that hasn't won anything. Yaaay

11. Broncos- they're fizzling out. They also have a pass rusher.

12 Falcons - Still shell shocked.

13. Eagles - we'll see. But I'll bet they're having fun at 1-1. Woohoo.

It's week 2.

Tony, you are talking too much sense.

 

[borg]

From 2001 - 2007 we had pro bowl level talent at every level, and more then that, we had playmakers at every level.

DL - All pro talents in Seymour and Wilfork

LB - pro bowl level talent in Bruschi and McGinnest. 3 big time playmakers (McGinnest, Bruschi, Vrabel)

Secondary - All pro talents in Law and Harrison.

The only pro bowl level talent we have on D right now is Gilmore.

And with all this talent, Patriots' defenses won the field position battles giving young Brady and Antoine Smith very short fields to work with.
3 'n out was the goal of those defenses
More recently, the goal is "hold 'em to a FG" (or under 40 in the SB)
The GOAT is expected to deliver 30+ points every Sunday and 40+ in Febuary

The reality.......the goal is to build teams that score one more point than opponents and BB has mastered this formula for 18 straight years and counting. Incredible

 

[Brewskies]

Is there a problem with BB? Not that I know of!

For the past two decades he has given the Pats fans a lot to cheer for. So I am thankful for that. He he made a mistake during a game, yes. Has he made a mistake in the off season, yes. But he has brought us winners, lots of them.

So no I don't think there is a problem with BB.

Go Pats

 

[wrangler]

7 straight AFC championship games, 4 super bowl games, 2 SB wins.
Really not a bad 7 year run, but BB does make mistakes,... as we all do.
I'll wait 'til around thanks giving ....... see if maybe BB has lost a step
or two.

 

[ralmat55]

I just read through the rewatching SB 49 thread. If not for the dumbest play call, the greatest individual defensive play and greatest comeback in SB history, the Patriots would be 0-5 in Super Bowls since two weeks into the 2nd term of George W. Bush.

How differently would we be looking at the last 13 seasons? How differently would we view the legacy of Bill Belichick if Marshawn Lynch had just been allowed to run it in or the Falcons had just run the ball and kicked a FG at the end of SB 51?

I have a problem with control and authority freaks such as Bill. I have a problem with anyone thinking they’re worthy of having total power over anything. I’ve been leery of the Czar Bill setup from the beginning which only got worse when he was left to his own counsel after strong underlings like Pioli, Weiss, and Crennel left and replaced by unaccomplished college assistants who owe Czar Bill their careers. Everyone needs someone who will tell them that they are wrong.

There is no way to prove it, but I totally believe it. If in January 2009 Bill Belichick had left to become the Grand Imperial Poobah of the Kc Chiefs leaving Scott Pioli behind as the Patriots GM and Josh McDaniels as HC and rehiring Romeo Crennel as the DC, the Patriots would have won as many games and won more championships in the last nine years than they have with Czar Bill at the helm. You can’t prove they would not have either.

 

[Deus Irae]

People who complain about missing out players in the draft ARE JUST STUPID. The draft is such a crapshoot. The GOAT was a 6th rounder. So was Antonio Brown. Julian Edelamn drafted in 7th round. Tyreek Hill was drafted in 5th round.

Every year, fans think BB and the Pats should done this or should done that. Stop pretending you know any better. Stop pretending you can do better.

You might know how to sign a fat check to the shiniest FA in the current year. But you do not know how to stay competitive for nearly two decades.

You might know how to call a pick using Mel Kiper's rankning. You certainly do not know how to project players' development.

You certainly know how to signal a all-out blitz. You 100% never factored in the opponent's tendencies and the risky-reward ratio from each strategy.

how do you like them apples

Ridiculous take

 

[Bruins29]

I just read through the rewatching SB 49 thread. If not for the dumbest play call, the greatest individual defensive play and greatest comeback in SB history, the Patriots would be 0-5 in Super Bowls since two weeks into the 2nd term of George W. Bush.

How differently would we be looking at the last 13 seasons? How differently would we view the legacy of Bill Belichick if Marshawn Lynch had just been allowed to run it in or the Falcons had just run the ball and kicked a FG at the end of SB 51?

I have a problem with control and authority freaks such as Bill. I have a problem with anyone thinking they’re worthy of having total power over anything. I’ve been leery of the Czar Bill setup from the beginning which only got worse when he was left to his own counsel after strong underlings like Pioli, Weiss, and Crennel left and replaced by unaccomplished college assistants who owe Czar Bill their careers. Everyone needs someone who will tell them that they are wrong.

There is no way to prove it, but I totally believe it. If in January 2009 Bill Belichick had left to become the Grand Imperial Poobah of the Kc Chiefs leaving Scott Pioli behind as the Patriots GM and Josh McDaniels as HC and rehiring Romeo Crennel as the DC, the Patriots would have won as many games and won more championships in the last nine years than they have with Czar Bill at the helm. You can’t prove they would not have either.

 

[SVN]

Man...we are an entitled fan base arent we ? I mean look at 31 other teams and their coaches and their track record . We still need a reason to complain.

 

[HailHydra]

We have no reason to complain for Bill Belichick the Coach, nor at all Bill Belichick the GM. Bill Belichick the Drafter in Rounds 1/2 is quite a bit more down to Earth though.

 

[Triumph]

Bill the GM has seriously let down Bill the Coach since 2012. Brady has successfully covered up for it.

Kraft should start shopping for the groceries and let BB cook the dinner.

 

[edkk323]

Ridiculous take

For example, no one expected we sign Gilmore for $14 m per. Given our CB situation and available CB FA last year AND this year, I would say it was a great signing.

Very few fans on this board can see beyond one year. I am not one of them.

 

[JMC00]

Cyrus Jones -> Yannick Ngakoue

or how about the nfl doesn't steal the 2016 1st round pick and the Pats take Michael Thomas