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Miguel's Jonnu Smith question

2021 Patriots Season:
Upcoming Opponent:
Next Up: at Bills
Pick Results: NE: 84.2% at BUF: 15.8%

Dec 6th

Current Patriots Twitter Feed:


In the Starting Line-Up
12.5m/yr for unreliable hands...

I would like BillB make a pitch to Larry Fitz to play for 1/2-yr contract.... His hands are like super-glue!



Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Smith and Agholor are the two most athletic mismatches on offense and Josh hasn’t figured out how to get big plays from either. This remains something of a mystery to me and time is running out.
Time is running out, they are both signed for next year and this year there are 6 more games plus the break.


In the Starting Line-Up
I think Agholor and Smith will be back next year. It would be great to see them more active by now, but I think there is plenty of time as long as they keep getting better game to game (even if that is too slow for some on PatsFans).
Smith has a 4 year contract with 31 million guaranteed. He’s going to be here for the next couple years as the Pats can’t just let him walk away. A restructure might be possible.


I think of how highly his teammates have talked about Jonny and the big plays he was making in pre-season and practice and I just have to believe it’s just a matter of time.

Defenses will completely fall asleep on Jonnu and suddenly hell be posting 100 yd games and multiple TDs.

Starts Sunday.
I was actually hoping this was the N’Keal Harry plan with all the blocking they’re having him do… setting up for a deep shots out of a heavy run looks…

JarOfMayo51 Supporter Supporter
2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
I think Agholor and Smith will be back next year. It would be great to see them more active by now, but I think there is plenty of time as long as they keep getting better game to game (even if that is too slow for some on PatsFans).

getting better game to game is something you want to see from rookies or young players, not hope to see from two highly paid veteran free agents

DarrylS Supporter Supporter
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
Okay first of all, it's not running out, it's slipping slipping slipping into the future. But seriously sure, it's running out. Only 3 1/2 more years for Jonnu.

As has been noted before, this is a content-free continuation of the just-plain-stupid one-size-fitz-all Josh-hate threads on this board. DUMB!

"Hey! That player plays on offense and isn't very productive!!! Offense! Not Productive!!! Josh McDaniel!"

Shut. Uppppppppp.

You've got no other insights other than Smith indeed COULD BE great, alongside a conjecture that is basically "I hate Josh McDaniel." (He "hasn't figured out...." and so on.) Okay you also speculate how Agholar COULD BE great.

Here's an exercise for you, since you've already got the answer for why any given player on offense isn't productive.

Tell me why any given player IS being productive, or any given unit. Here is the list of factors you are allowed to use: Josh McDaniel.

Shouldn't you also be saying that Josh McDaniel, who developed on Tom Brady into the classic pocket passing quarterback with a lightning quick release that we came to love... and add other Brady attributes here, I don't want to make this a Brady thread.... is also doing exactly the same thing in exactly the same style in one Mac Jones?

Why aren't you saying that Josh McDaniel has brilliantly discovered how to make another Pats quarterback shine in the same system?

Granted, it would take a tiny bit more knowledge than "I hate Josh" or "I love Josh," you'd also have to notice that similarity. But at heart it's the same exercise: You ascribe every positive about the Pats' O to Josh McDaniel, just as you ascribe every negative about the Pats' O to Josh McDaniel.

I have LOVED watching Josh McDaniel's use of the offensive line and his use of Stevenson (after brilliantly benching him for fumble, creating a ball-clutching monster,) not to mention how Josh McDaniel continues to use Damien Harris. PS, also tell your friends who say BB can't draft that I've loved watching the products of the last couple of drafts in general.

And OMG, did you hear Josh McDaniel turned Hunter Henry into Gronk?

Isn't that a stupid-looking take, just naming one guy you hate on the coaching staff whenever a performance issue is discussed, when you could make the same commentary to the good so easily?

Why TF do you think that other NFL teams thought he was head coach material once, and the buzz is about the possibility he'll get his own command again soon (in Star Trek & probably navy terms)?

My guess is that both factors Miguel named have played a part. They're probably the lion's share of the scenario and that's why I, likeothers here, noted them up front up to this point. But what else explains Henry and Smith both coming from other teams with similar production, but with HH set for double digit touchdowns and Smith underperforming?

- the "save something for the playoffs" possibility. What if he happens to fall into this batch of plays prominently, and wouldn't be that good at them with the bum shoulder, but will be ready to be deployed in this role in the post season?

- The "not there quite yet" possibility. Again, combined w/the shoulder. Is he taking more time than the built-in comp, Hunter Henry, to "get it" or get on the same page as Mac?

- The "blocking TE for now" possibility - possibly to be rolled back soon. The O-line gave us fits back when we were 2-4 and anybody that could actually get in someone's way for a minute had value. As has been noted, Jonnu has been used that way.

- The "Mac Security blanket" possibility. In every QB/pass-catcher relationship, there's the factor that the QB is trusting that guy to make the play. Both TEs have evident red zone value. Does he -- or Josh -- change the play to force the ball to Jonnu or go with what's worked?

The biggest question mark about your "I Hate Josh" "analysis", is how he can overperform in his use of Hunter Henry exactly as he's underperforming in his use of Jonnu Smith?

It seems there are at least a couple less stupid options than "I hate Josh" to explain the difference.

Yeah that is a variable.

About time? :D

Okay so, as noted, he's on a 4-year deal. There's always the possibility of "this (blocking) is what we need out of you for right now. We know we're using the Lambo in the school zone heah, but we'll get to the track one day soon."

It's possible he hasn't picked it up yet.

It's possible that time heals all wounds and even if it didn't, we've had at least one guy do really well with a chronic shoulder issue on the injury report. (turned out he just had chips on it.)

okay sorry for the core dump, I took a lot of time off recently & the Mrs. isn't in "honey do" mode.

Your comments are well done, however there is some credibility to Johnnu's role as blocker, particularly run blocker. Is the recent surge in run yards pg partially due to him??


betterthanthealternative Supporter Supporter
I'm pretty sure that in one or more of the 27 other timelines playing out in the universe, Smith has 50 catches already, so everyone can relax.

But is time running out? Hmmm.



Pro Bowl Player
2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
I laugh at the concern over Jonnu's stats.

Agreed. We brought in four new skill position players who were expected to get significant snaps, to add on to Meyers who led the team in receptions and yards last year. Then we add a rookie QB and a run-first game plan. SOMEONE was going to have subpar stats, it was just a mathematical inevitability. What you hope is that it's more usage related than inability to mesh with the scheme, and that when the gameplan calls for it, Jonnu can step up.

That's where the disappointment has been for me so far with him. First, the Saints game where his number was called and he got the dropsies (including one that directly led to a pick six). Second, the game where we saw what he really could do was the Jets game, and he got hurt in it. So a combination of some drop and durability concerns are valid right now, but stats are the last thing I'm worried about. Especially while they're winning games, so it's not like Jonnu's lack of tangible production is translating into losses.

Bill Lee

What, me worry? Supporter
It's only fans who bemoan the $ to yards and catches by individual player thing during a season. The Patriots tend to get what they can from a player in their role on that particular team (as you noted which forms each and every year and starts to define itself around week 8 or so) because the money is already spent - it's a sunk cost, and then they re-evaluate that player's likelihood to continue in the offseason.
Still waiting for that dollars/yard chart showing the bargains rather than the other end of the scale.

Till then, I'll just ....