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Miguel's Jonnu Smith question

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Dec 6th

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Mike the Brit

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Go look at his highlights before he came to the Pats. This guy is a great receiver and will be, I hope, for the Pats, sooner or later. They're trying to find things for him to do that don't stress his shoulder (screens, sweeps). They tried the same when Martellus Bennett came back injured for his short second stint. Personally, I think they should just let him heal and give that stuff to someone else (N****l H***y).
 

Mack Herron

Pro Bowl Player
There was a 1000% chance that this post was going to get at least one “like/winner”, from a certain someone with a JMD hatred obsession.
I almost wrote that he’s been so busy developing Jones that he hasn’t had time to develop each of the receivers. Lazar noticed that Agholor is showing improvement getting separation on shorter routes which should open up longer routes, so we’ll see.
 

DarrylS

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Another Johnnu Smith bashing thread, if he was such a poor performer he probably would not get the same number of snaps as Hunter Henry, last week they were just about even.

As fans we tend to look at who is not performing up to expectations without fully understanding what the expectations are.. have heard many times that Smith has been looked at as a blocker to help keep Jones upright. His role will morph as the O line continues to improve and he will become another weapon for this team.

Smith will be fine, give him some time and as this O continues to progress he will become a viable option.
 

PATSYLICIOUS

Pro Bowl Player
Big disappointment thus far but I’m confident smith will find his niche here, hopefully in time for those bills and colts games. He can be a key weapon down the stretch
 

PatsFanInVa

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Okay first of all, it's not running out, it's slipping slipping slipping into the future. But seriously sure, it's running out. Only 3 1/2 more years for Jonnu.

Smith and Agholor are the two most athletic mismatches on offense and Josh hasn’t figured out how to get big plays from either. This remains something of a mystery to me and time is running out.
As has been noted before, this is a content-free continuation of the just-plain-stupid one-size-fitz-all Josh-hate threads on this board. DUMB!

"Hey! That player plays on offense and isn't very productive!!! Offense! Not Productive!!! Josh McDaniel!"

Shut. Uppppppppp.

You've got no other insights other than Smith indeed COULD BE great, alongside a conjecture that is basically "I hate Josh McDaniel." (He "hasn't figured out...." and so on.) Okay you also speculate how Agholar COULD BE great.

Here's an exercise for you, since you've already got the answer for why any given player on offense isn't productive.

Tell me why any given player IS being productive, or any given unit. Here is the list of factors you are allowed to use: Josh McDaniel.

Shouldn't you also be saying that Josh McDaniel, who developed on Tom Brady into the classic pocket passing quarterback with a lightning quick release that we came to love... and add other Brady attributes here, I don't want to make this a Brady thread.... is also doing exactly the same thing in exactly the same style in one Mac Jones?

Why aren't you saying that Josh McDaniel has brilliantly discovered how to make another Pats quarterback shine in the same system?

Granted, it would take a tiny bit more knowledge than "I hate Josh" or "I love Josh," you'd also have to notice that similarity. But at heart it's the same exercise: You ascribe every positive about the Pats' O to Josh McDaniel, just as you ascribe every negative about the Pats' O to Josh McDaniel.

I have LOVED watching Josh McDaniel's use of the offensive line and his use of Stevenson (after brilliantly benching him for fumble, creating a ball-clutching monster,) not to mention how Josh McDaniel continues to use Damien Harris. PS, also tell your friends who say BB can't draft that I've loved watching the products of the last couple of drafts in general.

And OMG, did you hear Josh McDaniel turned Hunter Henry into Gronk?

Isn't that a stupid-looking take, just naming one guy you hate on the coaching staff whenever a performance issue is discussed, when you could make the same commentary to the good so easily?

Why TF do you think that other NFL teams thought he was head coach material once, and the buzz is about the possibility he'll get his own command again soon (in Star Trek & probably navy terms)?

My guess is that both factors Miguel named have played a part. They're probably the lion's share of the scenario and that's why I, likeothers here, noted them up front up to this point. But what else explains Henry and Smith both coming from other teams with similar production, but with HH set for double digit touchdowns and Smith underperforming?

- the "save something for the playoffs" possibility. What if he happens to fall into this batch of plays prominently, and wouldn't be that good at them with the bum shoulder, but will be ready to be deployed in this role in the post season?

- The "not there quite yet" possibility. Again, combined w/the shoulder. Is he taking more time than the built-in comp, Hunter Henry, to "get it" or get on the same page as Mac?

- The "blocking TE for now" possibility - possibly to be rolled back soon. The O-line gave us fits back when we were 2-4 and anybody that could actually get in someone's way for a minute had value. As has been noted, Jonnu has been used that way.

- The "Mac Security blanket" possibility. In every QB/pass-catcher relationship, there's the factor that the QB is trusting that guy to make the play. Both TEs have evident red zone value. Does he -- or Josh -- change the play to force the ball to Jonnu or go with what's worked?

The biggest question mark about your "I Hate Josh" "analysis", is how he can overperform in his use of Hunter Henry exactly as he's underperforming in his use of Jonnu Smith?

It seems there are at least a couple less stupid options than "I hate Josh" to explain the difference.

I agree but they need to perform too.
Yeah that is a variable.
Does anybody really know what time it is? Does anybody really care?
About time? :D

Okay so, as noted, he's on a 4-year deal. There's always the possibility of "this (blocking) is what we need out of you for right now. We know we're using the Lambo in the school zone heah, but we'll get to the track one day soon."

It's possible he hasn't picked it up yet.

It's possible that time heals all wounds and even if it didn't, we've had at least one guy do really well with a chronic shoulder issue on the injury report. (turned out he just had chips on it.)

okay sorry for the core dump, I took a lot of time off recently & the Mrs. isn't in "honey do" mode.
 

TheRainMaker

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Wouldn't shock me as the curse of the former player happens on a regular basis.
 

Hyped

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I need it to happen....I am 4-7 in my keeper league and need to win 3 in a row, but at the same time I traded away Hockenson for a pick in next year's draft....gonna roll the dice on Jonnu this Sunday!!! LFG!!!
 

Mack Herron

Pro Bowl Player
Okay first of all, it's not running out, it's slipping slipping slipping into the future. But seriously sure, it's running out. Only 3 1/2 more years for Jonnu.


As has been noted before, this is a content-free continuation of the just-plain-stupid one-size-fitz-all Josh-hate threads on this board. DUMB!

"Hey! That player plays on offense and isn't very productive!!! Offense! Not Productive!!! Josh McDaniel!"

Shut. Uppppppppp.

You've got no other insights other than Smith indeed COULD BE great, alongside a conjecture that is basically "I hate Josh McDaniel." (He "hasn't figured out...." and so on.) Okay you also speculate how Agholar COULD BE great.

Here's an exercise for you, since you've already got the answer for why any given player on offense isn't productive.

Tell me why any given player IS being productive, or any given unit. Here is the list of factors you are allowed to use: Josh McDaniel.

Shouldn't you also be saying that Josh McDaniel, who developed on Tom Brady into the classic pocket passing quarterback with a lightning quick release that we came to love... and add other Brady attributes here, I don't want to make this a Brady thread.... is also doing exactly the same thing in exactly the same style in one Mac Jones?

Why aren't you saying that Josh McDaniel has brilliantly discovered how to make another Pats quarterback shine in the same system?

Granted, it would take a tiny bit more knowledge than "I hate Josh" or "I love Josh," you'd also have to notice that similarity. But at heart it's the same exercise: You ascribe every positive about the Pats' O to Josh McDaniel, just as you ascribe every negative about the Pats' O to Josh McDaniel.

I have LOVED watching Josh McDaniel's use of the offensive line and his use of Stevenson (after brilliantly benching him for fumble, creating a ball-clutching monster,) not to mention how Josh McDaniel continues to use Damien Harris. PS, also tell your friends who say BB can't draft that I've loved watching the products of the last couple of drafts in general.

And OMG, did you hear Josh McDaniel turned Hunter Henry into Gronk?

Isn't that a stupid-looking take, just naming one guy you hate on the coaching staff whenever a performance issue is discussed, when you could make the same commentary to the good so easily?

Why TF do you think that other NFL teams thought he was head coach material once, and the buzz is about the possibility he'll get his own command again soon (in Star Trek & probably navy terms)?

My guess is that both factors Miguel named have played a part. They're probably the lion's share of the scenario and that's why I, likeothers here, noted them up front up to this point. But what else explains Henry and Smith both coming from other teams with similar production, but with HH set for double digit touchdowns and Smith underperforming?

- the "save something for the playoffs" possibility. What if he happens to fall into this batch of plays prominently, and wouldn't be that good at them with the bum shoulder, but will be ready to be deployed in this role in the post season?

- The "not there quite yet" possibility. Again, combined w/the shoulder. Is he taking more time than the built-in comp, Hunter Henry, to "get it" or get on the same page as Mac?

- The "blocking TE for now" possibility - possibly to be rolled back soon. The O-line gave us fits back when we were 2-4 and anybody that could actually get in someone's way for a minute had value. As has been noted, Jonnu has been used that way.

- The "Mac Security blanket" possibility. In every QB/pass-catcher relationship, there's the factor that the QB is trusting that guy to make the play. Both TEs have evident red zone value. Does he -- or Josh -- change the play to force the ball to Jonnu or go with what's worked?

The biggest question mark about your "I Hate Josh" "analysis", is how he can overperform in his use of Hunter Henry exactly as he's underperforming in his use of Jonnu Smith?

It seems there are at least a couple less stupid options than "I hate Josh" to explain the difference.


Yeah that is a variable.

About time? :D

Okay so, as noted, he's on a 4-year deal. There's always the possibility of "this (blocking) is what we need out of you for right now. We know we're using the Lambo in the school zone heah, but we'll get to the track one day soon."

It's possible he hasn't picked it up yet.

It's possible that time heals all wounds and even if it didn't, we've had at least one guy do really well with a chronic shoulder issue on the injury report. (turned out he just had chips on it.)

okay sorry for the core dump, I took a lot of time off recently & the Mrs. isn't in "honey do" mode.
I am hardly the only one at least mildly surprised by the productivity of Smith. My remarks, however, were not intended as a criticism of Josh at all. I only meant to suggest you can’t build Rome in a day. In contrast to the assertions in your diatribe, I actually think highly of Josh.
 

TheRazorsEdge

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Defenses will completely fall asleep on Jonnu and suddenly hell be posting 100 yd games and multiple TDs.

Starts Sunday.
 

PatsFanInVa

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I am hardly the only one at least mildly surprised by the productivity of Smith. My remarks, however, were not intended as a criticism of Josh at all. I only meant to suggest you can’t build Rome in a day. In contrast to the assertions in your diatribe, I actually think highly of Josh.
Oh. too much time on my hands.

Weird, I don't even drink.
 

SlowGettingUp

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
"He’s been charted as a blocker on 221 of his 347 offensive snaps."

Some of this was because the OL was in flux and needed help.

Perhaps more of an issue is that TE is the second most complex position to play in NE, according to Belichick. And Smith is perhaps more of a YAC guy than a route-running guy. But why he hasn't been targeted on some quick slants and the like I don't know.

 

PatsFanInVa

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"He’s been charted as a blocker on 221 of his 347 offensive snaps."

Some of this was because the OL was in flux and needed help.

Perhaps more of an issue is that TE is the second most complex position to play in NE, according to Belichick. And Smith is perhaps more of a YAC guy than a route-running guy. But why he hasn't been targeted on some quick slants and the like I don't know.

I guess once you go past blame (and the impression of blame, sorry about that,) the possibilities and scenarios become interesting, but as we always read, the end analysis is you just don't know. Is Smith's workday like Henry's? They have been used in distinct ways so far... is that b/c Smith did not catch on to the role that Henry DID immediately soak up, or b/c they are inherently different roles? Something tells me something happened where it was "whoa looks like we have a secret weapon blocking until this line situation is sorted out..." And while Mac is in the early phases of scheme learning and whatnot.

Okay let's grade it out in 2024
 

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