Mayo negotiations + OC interviews next week

[PatsFan2]

Smart teams push the cap hit down the road as the cap increases every year. They don't overpay bad players on short term deals that they will owe all the money on. The cap hit is the most important because it is what affects the team spending that year and we spent 7% of our cap dollars on a bad player. If you break down what Agholor cost against the cap vs catches we paid him about $320,000 a catch over two years.

I'm so glad he's gone.

 

[RIpats88]

Yessir

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I miss these patriots uniforms

 

[rochrist]

I doubt that there was an agreement. There's a rule referring to contact between NFL teams and college personnel in the anti-tampering policy and if they had an agreement that might be a violation. Unless the Patriots got permission from Alabama to talk to BoB and nothing has ever been reported that they did.

I doubt Saban would push it.

 

[upstater1]

Lol, no you don't. Season to season the only thing that matters is the cap hit. You've been wrong on this all along.

Nonsense.

We've been over this.

When Gilmore was gone, he cost the Patriots $12.4m. He wasn't even on the team. He gave us nothing for that $12.4m.

Same with Donte Hightower. Cost us $10.3m after his last season. $10.3m for ZERO production.

If you're not accounting for this money and averaging it to the total, you have no clue how the cap works.

You can pay a player $6m one year and $16m the next, but in no one's mind but yours does that make the player a $16m a year player.

 

[venecol]

Smart teams push the cap hit down the road as the cap increases every year. They don't overpay bad players on short term deals that they will owe all the money on. The cap hit is the most important because it is what affects the team spending that year and we spent 7% of our cap dollars on a bad player. If you break down what Agholor cost against the cap vs catches we paid him about $320,000 a catch over two years.

It was the amount of guaranteed money given to the '21 free agents that was the mistake. It was a record amount. A first for the Pats. Pioli talked about it. Kraft said he had never signed so many checks in his entire time as owner. The returns are atrocious.

This guy is happy though.

 

[Steve102]

I doubt that there was an agreement. There's a rule against that in the anti-tampering rules and if they had an agreement that might be a violation. Unless the Patriots got permission from Alabama to talk to BoB and nothing has ever been reported that they did.

Saban: FoB
Bill O: FoB
Fatt Matt: FoB
Joe Judge: FoB

I am not suggesting that they all colluded to beat the system, because they would never do that. Bill never takes advantage of loopholes or pushes the spirit of the law. Never. It's just a convenient coincidence that Bill brought in 2 FoB's and gave them consultant jobs or whatever they were titled, so they could draw the checks from their previous teams. Kraft wouldn't sign off on paying them 10 cents on the dollar, no way.

Then BoB's people leak to the press that he's looking for the next great deal before they interview him, in effect negotiating thru the press before he even gets on the plane. Meanwhile, the Pats go by the letter of the law in the NFL, including putting out an uncharacteristic press release, announcing to the world HEY WE ARE INTERVIEWING OCs HERE! So now they interview. Maybe thru the interview process, they like Jefferson or McArdell better and go in that direction, knowing all along they had BoB in their pocket. BoB then goes back to Saban and they extend him.

 

[Steve102]

No wonder the Krafts took the reigns back from Bill. That was not their expectations. Are you joking? If so, lol.

See above.

 

[venecol]

Nonsense.

We've been over this.

When Gilmore was gone, he cost the Patriots $12.4m. He wasn't even on the team. He gave us nothing for that $12.4m.

Same with Donte Hightower. Cost us $10.3m after his last season. $10.3m for ZERO production.

If you're not accounting for this money and averaging it to the total, you have no clue how the cap works.

You can pay a player $6m one year and $16m the next, but in no one's mind but yours does that make the player a $16m a year player.

You obviously don't understand how the cap works. Average annual salary is meaningless and used only to compare contracts. The cap allocation is what GMs use for roster building, not AAV.

Patriots had the highest cap rate for WRs and TEs in the league w/ bottom of league production. That's a fact.

 

[PatsFan2]

You obviously don't understand how the cap works. Average annual salary is meaningless and used only to compare contracts. The cap allocation is what GMs use for roster building, not AAV.

Patriots had the highest cap rate for WRs and TEs in the league w/ bottom of league production. That's a fact.

 

[venecol]

Saban: FoB
Bill O: FoB
Fatt Matt: FoB
Joe Judge: FoB

I am not suggesting that they all colluded to beat the system, because they would never do that. Bill never takes advantage of loopholes or pushes the spirit of the law. Never. It's just a convenient coincidence that Bill brought in 2 FoB's and gave them consultant jobs or whatever they were titled, so they could draw the checks from their previous teams. Kraft wouldn't sign off on paying them 10 cents on the dollar, no way.

Then BoB's people leak to the press that he's looking for the next great deal before they interview him, in effect negotiating thru the press before he even gets on the plane. Meanwhile, the Pats go by the letter of the law in the NFL, including putting out an uncharacteristic press release, announcing to the world HEY WE ARE INTERVIEWING OCs HERE! So now they interview. Maybe thru the interview process, they like Jefferson or McArdell better and go in that direction, knowing all along they had BoB in their pocket. BoB then goes back to Saban and they extend him.

Lol. I must say, you do like the conspiracy theories.

 

[Toofy]

You have to look at the average salary, not the cap hit.

Avg. salary was $11m. Teams push out the cap hits whenever they can, which you won't do with a 2 year contract.

I didn't say teams made bad deals. I showed you how middling 3rd WRs are now paid in the NFL. 40-50 catches a year = $10m now. That's on the low end actually. More than that.

Had agholor been limited to just low catches great.. but his fumbles we're game deciders. Would have lost 2-3 games due to his fumbles and untimely drops . I think that's where the 22 million hurt. In that aspect due to the negative ramifications if his play the 23 million is a disaster . Had only 1 contested catch play and so many other whiffs....

 

[Steve102]

Lol. I must say, you do like the conspiracy theories.

I will tell you what I really believe: Things are never what they are reported to be. There's too much at stake. (money, power) It's never that clean. There's politicking and lobbying all the time. Bill is more plugged into that world and has more connections that anyone realizes. Look at free agency. The minute they can sign deals, deals are done. These things take weeks if not months to do. Too many lawyers.

In the immortal words of James T Kirk: Don't believe them. Don't trust them.

 

[203Pat]

They all eventually pay the guaranteed money. All of them. Eventually in the last year you're going to get a cap hit. Look at the Rams with Allen Robinson or Bucs with Russell Gage, they will get a big cap hit in the last year. It is unavoidable.

The Rams are on the hook for Robinson this year but can get out of the deal in 2024 and save $10 million. Yes they would have dead years in 25 and 26 at $5.6 mill a piece put they spread the whole thing out and by the time the cap expands in those years that will likely be 2% of their cap. They swung and missed too but in the first 2 years of the deal Robinson and Agholor had an almost identical cap hit. Yes they will have another $19 million owed over the last three years of the deal (assuming he's cut after 2023) but with teams like the Rams they keep kicking the can and at least in my eyes Robinson is/was a better receiver than Agholor ever has been.

Gage is another bad deal but his 2 year cap hit is roughly $17.5 compared to Agholor's $22 million. They also save $10 million on the cap by cutting him in 2024 and only have $2 million in dead cap.

Are any of these deals good? No not at all but spreading out the cap hits as long as possible as the cap increases is smart business. That Agholor contract wasn't liked by the majority as soon as it was signed and he was even worse than most expected.

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

I would be shocked if we don’t hear an announcement next week that O’Brien is the OC
I also think Klemm could become a positional coach (OLine). Being in the College ranks he could leave with no ties.
The Jefferson and McCardell interviews come across of BB rewarding 2 players he liked coaching while strengthening their future rise in ranks while fulfilling the Rooney Rule.
Caley may stay as a position coach if he does not land the Jets position and is given an interview out of respect.

Just my mind going wild.

 

[upstater1]

You obviously don't understand how the cap works. Average annual salary is meaningless and used only to compare contracts. The cap allocation is what GMs use for roster building, not AAV.

Patriots had the highest cap rate for WRs and TEs in the league w/ bottom of league production. That's a fact.

So the dead cap hits in the end are meaningless. You're not going to add them to total calculation of how much was paid per catch to the player or how many interceptions, tackles, sacks, whatever.

That's bad math and utterly senseless.

We took a cap hit for Gilmore and he wasn't even on the team!!!! It's absurd that you don't even account for that. We could've used that money if it's so meaningless

 

[upstater1]

The Rams are on the hook for Robinson this year but can get out of the deal in 2024 and save $10 million. Yes they would have dead years in 25 and 26 at $5.6 mill a piece put they spread the whole thing out and by the time the cap expands in those years that will likely be 2% of their cap. They swung and missed too but in the first 2 years of the deal Robinson and Agholor had an almost identical cap hit. Yes they will have another $19 million owed over the last three years of the deal (assuming he's cut after 2023) but with teams like the Rams they keep kicking the can and at least in my eyes Robinson is/was a better receiver than Agholor ever has been.

Gage is another bad deal but his 2 year cap hit is roughly $17.5 compared to Agholor's $22 million. They also save $10 million on the cap by cutting him in 2024 and only have $2 million in dead cap.

Are any of these deals good? No not at all but spreading out the cap hits as long as possible as the cap increases is smart business. That Agholor contract wasn't liked by the majority as soon as it was signed and he was even worse than most expected.

You're going to take a dead cap hit at the end. If you're not adding that to their average over the course of the time they are on your time, it's disinegenuous

 

[venecol]

So the dead cap hits in the end are meaningless. You're not going to add them to total calculation of how much was paid per catch to the player or how many interceptions, tackles, sacks, whatever.

That's bad math and utterly senseless.

We took a cap hit for Gilmore and he wasn't even on the team!!!! It's absurd that you don't even account for that. We could've used that money if it's so meaningless

Who said dead cap doesn't count? Not me. Of course it counts, in the year when they hit. Pats have traditionally been good at reducing dead cap because they try not to back load their contracts. That's their approach. Others choose to kick the can down the road. Both have worked. I can tell you, they didn't do that w/ Smith. Then they extended him to squeeze a little more for this years cap. Just one bad decision after another.

 

[venecol]

I only hope that when I die, my good pal @rochrist gives me an Ugh on my obituary.

 

[TomPatriot]

It was the amount of guaranteed money given to the '21 free agents that was the mistake. It was a record amount. A first for the Pats. Pioli talked about it. Kraft said he had never signed so many checks in his entire time as owner. The returns are atrocious.

This guy is happy though.

View attachment 49224

Agholor and Smith were the two bad contracts.

 

[203Pat]

You're going to take a dead cap hit at the end. If you're not adding that to their average over the course of the time they are on your time, it's disinegenuous

The only thing I care about is how much of the cap is taken up by a player each year. I don't care about made up numbers condensed into one season that doesn't affect the cap.