Manziel and the Patriots

[NormZauchin]

Nope, don’t want that bum here. B.B. would get him drinking again

Maybe Gronk could help him deal with Belichick.

 

[supafly]

OK, thanks for clarifying.

I guess the patriots offensive is lots, lots, lots more complicated than any other in the league.
I believe that most other teams expect a QB drafted in the first two rounds to be able to be a backup in their rookie season.

Some teams expect such a quarterback to be able to start immediately or mid-way through the season. IMHO, that is indeed pushing the envelope.

Just giving my opinion. I could be incorrect and you could be spot on.

 

[RayClay]

The draftee will take a year trying to find his way around the building and learning 1/4 of the offense, at least in my opinion. That’s why a guy like Hoyer is needed. This was probably taken into account in terms of his contract structure, too, which would actually cost the team money if he’s cut.

I think Brady and Hoyer are locks. It’s that third spot that would be open for either a rookie/Manziel.

The rule of thumb used to be 5 years to develop a starting qb. Now teams like Cleveland and many more use up top ten draft picks like toilet paper.It's ridiculous. Some eventually thrive after being forced in, while many don't. That's whythe patriots have groomed many QBs who have started elsewhere despite not having very high picks [and bottom 2nd isn't very high].

Just follow the teams who never seem to have a good QB despite high picks and it should be obvious. Let them learn without the pressure and they'll be ready once the pressure is on.

 

[mgteich]

Just giving my opinion. I could be incorrect and you could be spot on.

fair enough

As I said, I'm fine with carrying a top draft and Hoyer. I would expect to draft another next year and cut Hoyer.

 

[Deus Irae]

OK, thanks for clarifying.

I guess the patriots offensive is lots, lots, lots more complicated than any other in the league.

The Patriots offensive terminology is simple. It's applying the concepts to the game that's difficult. This has been commented on for years.

I believe that most other teams expect a QB drafted in the first two rounds to be able to be a backup in their rookie season.

Some teams expect such a quarterback to be able to start immediately or midway through the season. IMHO, that is indeed pushing the envelope.

Teams view QBs as Day 1 starters, soon to be starters, and longer term projects, regardless of round. Goff riding the pine while Wentz was starting is a pretty good example of the difference. It's been a while since I bothered looking for updated articles, and I'm not going to hunt for anything right now, but past articles have shown history to be pretty clear in the idea that it's generally better for a rookie to have a redshirt season than to play right away.

 

[Deus Irae]

Following up on that last post:

JAG was drafted #62
Mallett was drafted #74

We're not talking a huge difference there, yet Mallett obviously wasn't ready to be the primary backup, even though the Patriots decided to make him that.

 

[mgteich]

I thought those articles referred to those QB's who were expected to start immediately or during the beginning of the season. If so, I think that the data is clear. With regard to being active for the game and being the backup, I'm not sure what the data would show.

It's been a while since I bothered looking for updated articles, and I'm not going to hunt for anything right now, but past articles have shown history to be pretty clear in the idea that it's generally better for a rookie to have a redshirt season than to play right away.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Following up on that last post:

JAG was drafted #62
Mallett was drafted #74

We're not talking a huge difference there, yet Mallett obviously wasn't ready to be the primary backup, even though the Patriots decided to make him that.

Mallett has been either the starter or primary backup his entire career

 

[Ring 6]

The rule of thumb used to be 5 years to develop a starting qb. Now teams like Cleveland and many more use up top ten draft picks like toilet paper.It's ridiculous. Some eventually thrive after being forced in, while many don't. That's whythe patriots have groomed many QBs who have started elsewhere despite not having very high picks [and bottom 2nd isn't very high].

Just follow the teams who never seem to have a good QB despite high picks and it should be obvious. Let them learn without the pressure and they'll be ready once the pressure is on.

Yet brady only had one year to develop.

 

[fnordcircle]

Yet brady only had one year to develop.

Two training camps, though. Sitting the first year seems to really help a lot of QBs. Or at least helps them not wash out due to getting put in a situation they're not ready for and developing bad habits or destroying their confidence.

 

[Ring 6]

Two training camps, though. Sitting the first year seems to really help a lot of QBs. Or at least helps them not wash out due to getting put in a situation they're not ready for and developing bad habits or destroying their confidence.

It depends on the QB.

 

[fnordcircle]

It depends on the QB.

Are you trying to tell me people are different?

I wouldn't undersell the value of a 2nd training camp for Brady by saying it only took him 1 season. I think it was @PatsWickedPissah (is he still alive?) who said it was clear in that TC that Brady > Bledsoe.

 

[Ring 6]

Are you trying to tell me people are different?

I wouldn't undersell the value of a 2nd training camp for Brady by saying it only took him 1 season. I think it was @PatsWickedPissah (is he still alive?) who said it was clear in that TC that Brady > Bledsoe.

Well everyone who has one season in the league also has a second camp before their second season. I’m not understanding why brady would be different than any other QB in that regard.

 

[fnordcircle]

Well everyone who has one season in the league also has a second camp before their second season. I’m not understanding why brady would be different than any other QB in that regard.

You said 1 season. He wasn't the starter right away.

Oh wait, I forgot who I was dealing with, I'm gonna just ask for mercy now cause I don't want to spend my night doing this.

 

[Tunescribe]

Oh wait, I forgot who I was dealing with, I'm gonna just ask for mercy now cause I don't want to spend my night doing this.

 

[Joker]

Fnurtz...it was clear during THAT camp that Brady had a far better handle on the short passing aspect of the Pats offense. I was there and was there before Brady was drafted. Bledsoe ALWAYS had a rocket and ALWAYS looked great throwing 15 and 20 yards downfieed. He never found the touch to fully realize the rest of the passing offense. Belichick wanted to move the ball and keep possessions. Brady gave him that...and while not the downfield bazooka that Bledsoe was, Brady kept possessions going and gained downs better than Bledsoe. It was rather easy for BB to make the move, even though it was extremely HARD for those of us used to the Bledsoe offense to see.

 

[Tunescribe]

Fnurtz...it was clear during THAT camp that Brady had a far better handle on the short passing aspect of the Pats offense. I was there and was there before Brady was drafted. Bledsoe ALWAYS had a rocket and ALWAYS looked great throwing 15 and 20 yards downfieed. He never found the touch to fully realize the rest of the passing offense. Belichick wanted to move the ball and keep possessions. Brady gave him that...and while not the downfield bazooka that Bledsoe was, Brady kept possessions going and gained downs better than Bledsoe. It was rather easy for BB to make the move, even though it was extremely HARD for those of us used to the Bledsoe offense to see.

All this is true. But I have vivid memories of games in the '90s when Bledsoe was throwing multiple 15- 20-yard lasers on game-winning drives. That was something special.

 

[Joker]

which is one of my points....I did NOT like the Bledsoe benching. I thought BB was nuts.

 

[Ring 6]

You said 1 season. He wasn't the starter right away.

Oh wait, I forgot who I was dealing with, I'm gonna just ask for mercy now cause I don't want to spend my night doing this.

No need to be a dlck.

 

[RayClay]

Yet brady only had one year to develop.

And nobody waits anywhere near the amount of time some pundits many years ago considered ideal. These days having one year holding the clipboard is a lot and QBs who weren't thrown in right away seem to do better, although you couldn't prove it, obviously. Peyton Manning was thrown right in and improved steadily and he's not the only one, for sure.