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Manning is more skilled than Brady? Please explain.

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I don't see why we can't just all admit that Brady is the best QB ever, Manning's first coach was Mary Shelley, and TFB's schlong is most likely twice the size of Manning's.
 
You always have to keep in mind that these opinions are something that you can't prove. That's why nobody is going to win the argument.

This is false. You can prove an opinion right or wrong based on facts. Whether or not you want to admit the truth is another story. You, clearly, have no intention of admitting the truth. You'd rather sit there with your fingers in your ears going "I'm right and you're wrong" than actually have a meaningful discussion. And you've proven that in this thread.
 
I dunno if it's fair to say that someone's resting on their laurels when they arguably reach the pinnacle of their profession then stay there.

That is kind of my point. He didn't reach the pinnacle of his profession until 2006. Even then, the streets are littered with QB's that have won a single SB title. Yet his physical skills have been declining for the last couple of years. I obviously don't know his training schedule, but I would imagine that there isn't a statue of Manning outside the weight room.

Brady won 3 SB titles in his first 5 years. That smells pretty "pinnacle" to me. Yet his arm strength has improved nearly every year since. His throwing motion and ball rotation are huge improvements over 2001...and even over what he could do in 2004. His throws downfield used to have a wobble and his shorter passes would be slightly behind receivers (causing them to slow down and stop). In 2007, a full 3 years after the last SB, Brady was just playing at a different level than his competition. Even adding an MVP, a slew of records and major surgery, I still expect Brady to improve his game in the next couple of years.
 
I don't see why we can't just all admit that Brady is the best QB ever, Manning's first coach was Mary Shelley, and TFB's schlong is most likely twice the size of Manning's.

There's no doubt that TFB is the GOAT (not that goat). As for his,ummm, size.....I'll ask Gisele when i see her tonight
 
This is false. You can prove an opinion right or wrong based on facts. Whether or not you want to admit the truth is another story. You, clearly, have no intention of admitting the truth. You'd rather sit there with your fingers in your ears going "I'm right and you're wrong" than actually have a meaningful discussion. And you've proven that in this thread.

 
I don't see why we can't just all admit that Brady is the best QB ever, Manning's first coach was Mary Shelley, and TFB's schlong is most likely twice the size of Manning's.

So that's the cause of all the drama- classic penis envy!
 
Apparently, you didn't have the time to read the post you quoted, either. In it, I said that Manning had a perfect passer rating of 158.3 in a playoff game.

Look, everyone, you can bring up so many different variables. There are so many different things to it. The so-called experts don't agree that Manning is more skilled than Brady or that it's the other way around. On a Patriots board, there is a clear answer. On a Colts board, the answer is just as clear, only it's the opposite answer. It's an opinion, and you know what they say about opinions...they're like ass-holes, everyone's got one.

I'd take either one of these guys, but if I had my choice, I'd take Manning. I think he is more skilled than Brady...by how large a margin I couldn't say. Probably not my much. They are two different people and two different types of QB...You can respect that or not, and it wouldn't be any skin off my teeth. This has been an ongoing debate for a reason. Like most other people, the only proof I need are my own two eyes. I've been watching football for 30 years, and I know what I'm looking at.

I can respect it if other people think Brady is more skilled, and I expect the same courtesy in return when I choose Manning.

You always have to keep in mind that these opinions are something that you can't prove. That's why nobody is going to win the argument.

I did read the post that you made. The point that I'm making is that it's completely wrong. Manning didn't pass for 158.3 in the playoffs because Brady currently holds the best passer rating in the playoffs which is 141.4 so Manning obviously didn't pass for a 158.3 rating in the playoffs.
 
I did read the post that you made. The point that I'm making is that it's completely wrong. Manning didn't pass for 158.3 in the playoffs because Brady currently holds the best passer rating in the playoffs which is 141.4 so Manning obviously didn't pass for a 158.3 rating in the playoffs.

actually, if you read back a few pages (i wouldnt bother.lol.) feldspar admitted that his numbers were wrong
 
'Decent trolls' is a bit unfair.

I think its a shame that alot of posters have such a low tolerance to fans from other teams.

Idiots like 'Joker' have no place on this forum - chest thumping , trash talking and only because he knows 99% of the posters on this forum follow the same team as him.

We have alot of knowledgeable people on this forum - we also have people like Deus Irae -if he has made a post that hasnt dripped with a patronizing, condescending, holier-than-thou attitude...well, I haven't seen it.

I know, that as Patriot fans, we come in for alot of nonsensical abuse (Spygate, Belicheat) that borders on the ******ed - but its no excuse for the arrogant attitude to visitors from other teams that is all to prevalent on this board.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/248462-manning-more-skilled-than-brady-please-explain.html#post1418406

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/248462-manning-more-skilled-than-brady-please-explain-page3.html#post1418628

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/248462-manning-more-skilled-than-brady-please-explain-page3.html#post1418638
 
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This is false. You can prove an opinion right or wrong based on facts. Whether or not you want to admit the truth is another story. You, clearly, have no intention of admitting the truth. You'd rather sit there with your fingers in your ears going "I'm right and you're wrong" than actually have a meaningful discussion. And you've proven that in this thread.

I could say the exact same thing about you. You are only right in your own mind because of your opinion. Same goes for me.
 
I did read the post that you made. The point that I'm making is that it's completely wrong. Manning didn't pass for 158.3 in the playoffs because Brady currently holds the best passer rating in the playoffs which is 141.4 so Manning obviously didn't pass for a 158.3 rating in the playoffs.

Yeah, you are right.

Sorry about that.
 
I did read the post that you made. The point that I'm making is that it's completely wrong. Manning didn't pass for 158.3 in the playoffs because Brady currently holds the best passer rating in the playoffs which is 141.4 so Manning obviously didn't pass for a 158.3 rating in the playoffs.

Actually Manning did...2004 AFC Wild Card Game vs. Denver, 153.8 passer rating in a 41-10 win. Only one of four ever to happen in the playoffs. Brady's mark might be the team record but it's not the best in the playoffs.

Denver Broncos vs. Indianapolis Colts - Recap - January 04, 2004 - ESPN
 
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That is kind of my point. He didn't reach the pinnacle of his profession until 2006. Even then, the streets are littered with QB's that have won a single SB title. Yet his physical skills have been declining for the last couple of years. I obviously don't know his training schedule, but I would imagine that there isn't a statue of Manning outside the weight room.

Peyton Manning was MVP of the league last year, so I can't see how you can say his physical skills are declining.

If you equate "pinnacle of your profession" to winning the Super Bowl, I don't think that's entirely fair on a personal level as far as a player's ability goes, which is what I think we are talking about. I mean, there ARE 52 other players on the team. Like everyone always says, the QB gets too much credit when a team wins, and too much blame when a team loses. It's the nature of the position. It may be the most important position, but it isn't the only one. How much credit do you give Bill Belichick for winning those Super Bowls? How much credit do you give Adam Vinitieri? How much credit do you give the defense? And so on and so forth. I'm not taking anything away from Brady, but there is plenty of credit to spread around.

Manning has ALWAYS seen personal success at his position. I don't see him losing a step. MVP players are good, last time I checked. It's not like he's an old man, and if he is, then so is Brady, or he will be an old man next year. They are only about 16 months apart in age. Look at what Kurt Warner accomplished at age 38 last year. Manning's got 5 good years left in him

The streets are also littered with Hall of Fame QBs that never won a single Super Bowl. Winning a Super Bowl helps, but it's not the end-all indicator of ability.

Brady won 3 SB titles in his first 5 years. That smells pretty "pinnacle" to me. Yet his arm strength has improved nearly every year since. His throwing motion and ball rotation are huge improvements over 2001...and even over what he could do in 2004. His throws downfield used to have a wobble and his shorter passes would be slightly behind receivers (causing them to slow down and stop). In 2007, a full 3 years after the last SB, Brady was just playing at a different level than his competition. Even adding an MVP, a slew of records and major surgery, I still expect Brady to improve his game in the next couple of years.

If you look in the books, you won't see Brady's name as the winner of the Super Bowl anywhere, you'll see the New England Patriots as the winner, with Tom Brady as QB. Again, this is not taking anything away from Brady, but only an attempt to but it in proper perspective. Granted, Brady played a big part in getting them there and winning, but hardly the only part.

The thing about Brady's evolution as a QB is that he had a lot of room to grow. He used to dump the ball off quite a bit. The Patriots were absolutely fantastic setting up the screen. Brady had his monster year in 2007, but I don't think he'll just come in and pick up where he left off. Nobody should expect to repeat THAT. As you know, he's coming off a pretty serious injury and has missed and entire year. That will affect him to some degree, just how much we'll have to wait and see. Of course he'll be good, but don't assume he'll be league MVP good or that he'll improve on his 2007 season.

Manning is a nine time Pro Bowler and 3 time league MVP. You can minimalize these accomplishments if you want to, but you can't put them down. He's still not only at the height of his game, but the height of the position compared to anyone currently playing.
 
That is kind of my point. He didn't reach the pinnacle of his profession until 2006. Even then, the streets are littered with QB's that have won a single SB title. Yet his physical skills have been declining for the last couple of years. I obviously don't know his training schedule, but I would imagine that there isn't a statue of Manning outside the weight room.

Brady won 3 SB titles in his first 5 years. That smells pretty "pinnacle" to me. Yet his arm strength has improved nearly every year since. His throwing motion and ball rotation are huge improvements over 2001...and even over what he could do in 2004. His throws downfield used to have a wobble and his shorter passes would be slightly behind receivers (causing them to slow down and stop). In 2007, a full 3 years after the last SB, Brady was just playing at a different level than his competition. Even adding an MVP, a slew of records and major surgery, I still expect Brady to improve his game in the next couple of years.

You're changing your definition of 'pinnacle' to fit whatever side of the coin you happen to be arguing for. Look, Brady's a better QB than Manning, and that can be argued objectively and with hard statistics and reasonable, easy-to-follow arguments. Making up stuff about Manning doesn't help the case, and probably only hurts it.

If the pinnacle is winning SBs, then by your rationale Brady peaked in 2004, in his mid-20s, and has been declining ever since. That's ridiculous, of course, but it's the other side of the case that you make when you say that Manning's 'resting on his laurels' because he hasn't won a SB since 2006.

And your speculation about Manning's work ethic is pointless. You don't know one way or the other, and what evidence there is suggests that you're wrong. Peyton's a notoriously hard worker, and he and Brady respect each other very much precisely because they both pretty much live for football. As for Manning being physically on the decline, what are you talking about, specifically? That he's aging? So is everyone. That he had to have knee surgery last year? So did Brady. That the team around him may be deteriorating? How is that his fault?

There's a very strong case to be made that says that Brady's better than Manning. When you start to claim that Manning has these major deficiencies as a QB, though, then you have about as much credibility as the people who still claim that Brady's a system QB who could only win because he knew all of the defensive signals ahead of time (ie: none).
 
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Actually he did...2004 AFC Wild Card Game vs. Denver, 153.8 passer rating. Only one of four ever to happen in the playoffs. Brady's mark might be the team record but it's not the best in the playoffs.

Denver Broncos vs. Indianapolis Colts - Recap - January 04, 2004 - ESPN

Right-O. I said this earlier. The games happened in 2004, but it was the 2003 season. Pretty awesome game, I'd say. He followed it up the next week at Kansas City with a 138.8 rating. Both games combined, he passed for 681 yards, 8 TDs and 0 INTs.

Then he came to New England and crapped the bed, throwing 4 INTs to 1 TD and completing a little less than half his passes for 237 yards. The Colts still only lost by 10 points. He had a bad game; it happens to everyone... but, for those of you that think he is a "choke artist," don't forget that he had these 2 great games when everything was on the line. The Kansas City game was a close game, so Manning needed to score 38 points for his team to win by a TD...and this was AT Kansas City.
 
Right-O. I said this earlier. The games happened in 2004, but it was the 2003 season. Pretty awesome game, I'd say. He followed it up the next week at Kansas City with a 138.8 rating. Both games combined, he passed for 681 yards, 8 TDs and 0 INTs.

Then he came to New England and crapped the bed, throwing 4 INTs to 1 TD and completing a little less than half his passes for 237 yards. The Colts still only lost by 10 points. He had a bad game; it happens to everyone... but, for those of you that think he is a "choke artist," don't forget that he had these 2 great games when everything was on the line. The Kansas City game was a close game, so Manning needed to score 38 points for his team to win by a TD...and this was AT Kansas City.

Agree with the point that you're making that the 'choke artist' label is overdone. Manning's had some great playoff games, and Brady's had some lousy ones. Arguing otherwise is just ignoring the facts. The difference, to me, is that Manning has had significantly more lousy ones, and teams just can't afford that in the playoffs. That's probably the only major blemish on Manning's otherwise stellar career so far.
 
Right-O. I said this earlier. The games happened in 2004, but it was the 2003 season. Pretty awesome game, I'd say. He followed it up the next week at Kansas City with a 138.8 rating. Both games combined, he passed for 681 yards, 8 TDs and 0 INTs.

Then he came to New England and crapped the bed, throwing 4 INTs to 1 TD and completing a little less than half his passes for 237 yards. The Colts still only lost by 10 points. He had a bad game; it happens to everyone... but, for those of you that think he is a "choke artist," don't forget that he had these 2 great games when everything was on the line. The Kansas City game was a close game, so Manning needed to score 38 points for his team to win by a TD...and this was AT Kansas City.

Can you possibly understand that when we are discussing WHO IS THE BEST QB, POSSIBLY OF ALLTIME the fact that Manning was TOTALLY PATHETIC in the AFC Championship Game eliminates the positive of the other 2 playoff games?
If you are comparing him to Donovan McNab, that argument may hold.
But this discussion isn't about which QB would beat a bad team by 30 and which would beat a bad team by 35. This discussion is about being the best there is, at the most critical position in the game.
Carrying your team to the AFCC Game by playing great, and THEN BEING THE REASON YOU LOSE THE CHAMPIONSHIP GAME is a total 100% negative in this discussion and you address it like its a positive.
Can you understand that?
 
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