Man in the Arena Discussion

[RobertWeathers]

LeBron is either 1A or 1B with Jordan.

I'll disagree with you on that one.

 

[lancerman]

I'll disagree with you on that one.

I wouldn't put him on Jordan's level, but I think it's hard to him outside the top 5.

I'd probably do a top 5 of Jordan, Lebron, Russell, Wilt, Kareem.

 

[Brotherblues]

I'll disagree with you on that one.

I will agree with your disagreement

 

[Brotherblues]

And as great as Bird was, he played for a franchise that had dominated the NBA for the 20 years previous.

If Mac Jones wins 3 Super Bowls in the next 6 years, 2 league MVPs, sets league records for highest QB rating, and then retires due to injury in 2033 after winning no more than 3 SBs, he would be like Larry Bird.

Just imagine the harvest if Satan himself went door to door around all of New England offering "Mac will be like Bird" to people in exchange for their souls...

 

[Jangles]

Huh? How is Brady more important than Bird or Orr? Under what context? Titles?

Because they’re not Wayne Gretzky or Michael
Jordan

Was this a serious question?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Because they’re not Wayne Gretzky or Michael
Jordan

Was this a serious question?

Agree about Bird/Jordan, but Orr was the greatest hockey player of all-time, though his shortened career leads to problems with calling him that.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Just imagine the harvest if Satan himself went door to door around all of New England offering "Mac will be like Bird" to people in exchange for their souls...

Sign me up. How about like Tom?

Maybe I can negotiate Hell for 500 years then Purgatory for 1000?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Because they’re not Wayne Gretzky or Michael
Jordan

Was this a serious question?

Yes it was. Assume you've read my posts above.

 

[BTTA]

Just imagine the harvest if Satan himself went door to door around all of New England offering "Mac will be like Bird" to people in exchange for their souls...

Nah, people would assume its a lost Jests fan who got confused about Halloween.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Larry and Magic absolutely brought the NBA back. If you remember correctly, the finals weren't even live TV in the early 1980's.

Tom's greatness on the field has not translated culturally. No one is running out to buy TB12 Method. Kids aren't buying Uggs because Tom Brady sells them. He has not had the effect on pop culture that a MJ or Lebron or Kobe had. He's the greatest football player ever, but that has not made him a cultural icon.

Can't stop daughter from giving me TB12 merch every Jan birthday. At least she knows that were I to get Uggs, she'd be out of the will.
Don't get espn+ and cannot watch anything about 2006 or 2007.

 

[Brotherblues]

Can't stop daughter from giving me TB12 merch every Jan birthday. At least she knows that were I to get Uggs, she'd be out of the will.
Don't get espn+ and cannot watch anything about 2006 or 2007.

People downplay how painful 06 was. Up 21-3 in AFCC with a free ring from Rex Grossman just waiting for the winner of that game...

 

[sean10mm]

Insofar as the Brady-Belichick feud even existed IRL they have pretty clearly buried the hatchet, but the forum wars will probably never end. There's only so many times each guy can say the other is the greatest player/coach before you should just give up and believe them. Yet people here keep acting like pissbabies.

It's another example of how anonymous arguments on the internet naturally devolve into toxic extremes.

After 2 decades it's not a tragedy that the Brady-Belichick partnership ended so much as it's a miracle that the partnership lasted as long as it did. Any real Pats fan should want both guys to do great going forward (outside of head to head matchups rooting for the Pats). But instead people are committed to being jerkoffs because they staked out a side on a slap fight with somebody they've never seen and the only way to "win" is to escalate the hostility.

 

[RobertWeathers]

People downplay how painful 06 was. Up 21-3 in AFCC with a free ring from Rex Grossman just waiting for the winner of that game...

They shouldn't downplay.

That is #1 of the playoff losses (prior to SB)

Hell i'm still PO'd at 2005.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

People downplay how painful 06 was. Up 21-3 in AFCC with a free ring from Rex Grossman just waiting for the winner of that game...

Had friends over to watch that AFCCG game. At halftime we ran out to get more booze to celebrate. Major bummer.
Faceguarding, my a**!
Remember, at that time the foolish Manning > Brady debate was raging. SO painful.

EDIT: Damn! And now someone mentioned 2005 the Debacle in Denver before I could stop them!

 

[sb1]

Pocket QBs have been around forever and will continue to be. Tom is just the best to have ever done it.

Very true but I would say Brady has innovated that position and what it means to be great at it. Work ethic matters. Before Brady the QBs in this league would need that rocket arm first, accuracy and football intelligence secondary. If Brady wasn't successful I don't think Mac would be here.

Working for whom besides Tom? What other athletes are pounding the table crediting their careers to the TB12 Method?

Definitely working for Tom. He's not just playing in this 40s he's doing things now that no athlete anywhere at his age has done before in any sport.
There have been QB's in the league at 40+ but nowhere near the MVP conversation much less winning it.
Gronk is buying in and so are some other athletes even in MLB and NHL

Agree but there have been players who have played in the NFL into their 40s. He's just performed at an absurd level at his age. Tom is a transcendent athlete. No debate about that.

I'm not talking about branding and commercialization but importance as it pertains to the impact on the sport, the industry and society.

I'd say he has made an impact on the sport for sure. On society? I'd go with Ali.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Very true but I would say Brady has innovated that position and what it means to be great at it. Work ethic matters. Before Brady the QBs in this league would need that rocket arm first, accuracy and football intelligence secondary. If Brady wasn't successful I don't think Mac would be here.

Montana

Definitely working for Tom. He's not just playing in this 40s he's doing things now that no athlete anywhere at his age has done before in any sport.
There have been QB's in the league at 40+ but nowhere near the MVP conversation much less winning it.
Gronk is buying in and so are some other athletes even in MLB and NHL

Gronk yes but i'm not aware of others. That's fine.

I'd say he has made an impact on the sport for sure. On society? I'd go with Ali.

Sport absolutely. Maybe a little in the industry. Society? Not really.

Ali might be #1 in impact in all 3 categories.

 

[Grogan14]

That's interesting you can definitely put Bird top 5, but my list is in no order

MJ
Kareem
Lebron
Magic
Russe

Duration of career (playing at a high level) should definitely factor in to the Boston Mount Rushmore


Brady- 21 years and still going
Orr- 12 years
Russelll- 13 years
Bird- 13 years
Ted Williams- 19 years

 

[Brotherblues]

I hear Skip is hilariously destroyed in one episode.

Makes me wonder, anyone know if there's mention of Tom Jackson (probably in episode 2)?

 

[amfootball]

Insofar as the Brady-Belichick feud even existed IRL they have pretty clearly buried the hatchet, but the forum wars will probably never end. There's only so many times each guy can say the other is the greatest player/coach before you should just give up and believe them. Yet people here keep acting like pissbabies.

It's another example of how anonymous arguments on the internet naturally devolve into toxic extremes.

After 2 decades it's not a tragedy that the Brady-Belichick partnership ended so much as it's a miracle that the partnership lasted as long as it did. Any real Pats fan should want both guys to do great going forward (outside of head to head matchups rooting for the Pats). But instead people are committed to being jerkoffs because they staked out a side on a slap fight with somebody they've never seen and the only way to "win" is to escalate the hostility.

I hear you on all of this but to the bolded - it is a tragedy IMO because of what the two of them were achieving together. It could have, should have continued. We will never ever see anything like it and knowing Brady still had championship years left and Bill still has IT as a coach, makes it all the more painful. But alas, you are right, we have to move on and root them both on. We have no other choice.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I hear Skip is hilariously destroyed in one episode.

Makes me wonder, anyone know if there's mention of Tom Jackson (probably in episode 2)?

Yes, skip was destroyed in episode 4. And Tom Jackson was referenced in episode 2.