Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

[chumpchange]

May I ask when it's been popular for the media to defend BB? It's a massive moneymaker. All they do is shift who they go after, for clickbait.

They actually WERE going after Vrady, and now it's going after BB again.

Nice, huh?

Malcom Butler, as a 28 year old adult male, needs to take accountablity. Period.

If even half of this is true, BB absolutely did the right thing by playing those deserving and those who were practcing well, working hard, and could be trusted.

End of story.

Bademos, Gilmore or Rowe had to go down in that game for Butler to get in.


Get over it. The flaw was matchups and scheme, not Butler's presence.

^ Like this, Soliel. See how he argues that teaching Butler a lesson was more important than making a critical adjustment at halftime and subbing in your best corner after watching the D perform at a historically bad level, in an attempt to save the game? That is award-winning level craziness there.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

On a separate but related note, hypothetical question:

If Jonathan Jones had not been injured in the Titans game, would Butler have been outright inactive?

Doubt it. Was he missing meetings, showing up stoned and hammered and blowing up on coaches heading into that game?

Look, it's very disappointing Butler did this during SB week, and that he couldn't contain his clear anger and dejection regarding he and his agent being VERY DUMB, turning down 8 mil per.

The fact he never got over this, ruined his stock and leverage now into FA, while souring his exit after his SB 49 hero status, is literally all of his own doing

If I was his agent, I would have been jumping with glee if BB offered Butler 8 mil per (average) for however many years, the deal was for.

I bet it was a 2 year deal. I bet Butler wanted years. Look at how Gilmore's deal is structured; it looks like BB overpaid for Gilmore, but really it's only a 2 year deal. He did the same thing with Revis, where he pays a lot, but he doesn't give the years to that position.

 

[luuked]

So, in your eyes, any player who is going to be a UFA after the SB should get free reign to snub team rules during the week leading up to the SB. It shouldn't matter because, well, it's the SB.

Have you stopped to think how damaging THAT truly is to a team??

I dont think half of the people here understand how important setting the culture is to be a successful football team. That being said I am sure the very same people have also no clue what a star LB or a rat is so I am not surprised. Boards are filled with casual fans who because they play fantasy think they know something about football.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

^ Like this, Soliel. See how he argues that teaching Butler a lesson was more important than making a critical adjustment at halftime and subbing in your best corner after watching the D perform at a historically bad level, in an attempt to save the game? That is award-winning level craziness there.

How old are you? I apologize if i missed it earlier.

You sound like a 20 something who is naive.

 

[fumbrunner]

Holy mackerel, but why wasn't Harmon or McCourty over the top on

Just up Bademosi's reps and have him work on Torrey Smith. McCourty had to have been used on Smith, because who else was taking him out?

This was a plan failure, not a player failure.

We win this game with this:

1. Rowe/Harmon on Jeffery. There'd be no attractive deep look, which is all the routes Jeffery ever runs. BB took out Jeffery in when he was with the Bears.

2. Gilmore on Agoholor. He's their best WR, we need our best, most physical man player, so it was a no brainer to me. Ertz and Agholor run the closer routes at the line of scrimmage and needed the physical match up. Chung was ideal on Ertz, which is why Ertz did jack squat until Chung got concussed.

3. Bademosi (Was going to be Butler), on Torrey Smith.

Someone took out Smith and it had to be McCourty. That means, the whole field deep, was on Harmon.

Why wasn't Harmon instructed to get way back, favor Jeffrey's side, which would then allow Patricia to dictate his scheming elsewhere?

This would have won the game.

Why tie up a safety unnecessarily? Gilmore completely took Jeffrey out of the game. We had zero pressure on Foles and let him pass at will, largely to Ertz and Agholor after the Gilmore switch. You have Butler on Agholor, Gilmore on Jeffrey and maybe you can buy a bit of time for the DL to get some pressure, or perhaps send in additional players though blitzes.

We arent talking about Julio Jones here. No need to roll coverage like that if you have Gilmore on him.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

Unless Butler committed a felony, which he didn’t, there’s absoutley no reason why one of your best defenders shouldn’t see the field in a Super Bowl where you gave up 22 points at the half and 41 in total.

The Belichick apologist nonsense needs to stop. He’s still the GOAT coach, but GOAT coaches make mistakes too. He made a critical, game changing error and he needs to own up to it.

This wasn’t a “my bad, I called the wrong play” mistake. He benched a Pro Bowler and sat back and watched the defense subsequently crash and burn in a fiery blaze, erasing our shot at a title. If Butler plays the second half of the game, we’re not having this conversation right now, period.

If it was something like Butler was out getting drunk and came to practice hung over, is Belichick supposed to let it slide because it's the Superbowl? What sort of message does that send to his future players?
If that's the case, then Belichick shouldn't have been put in that position and this is Butler's fault.

 

[Steve102]

Minnehan on the radio this morning said his sources inside the Patriots said Belichick has soured on Butler's play over the year and wanted to bench him during the AFC Championship game, but was talked out of it. He decided a few hours before the Super Bowl, after watching him in practice all week, he was benching him and informed Patricia. The coaches and the players did not know, which confirms what Rowe said that he didn't know he was starting until an hour before the game.

The source said the players aren't happy and that it may have cost them the Super Bowl. This was based more on his play then any disciplinary action. For what it's worth, Minnehan's source has given him some good info in the past that Minnehan broke.

If this is true and Butler was benched more for play then some huge indiscretion then this loss is 100% on Belichick's arrogance and if I was a player who has given their all this year I'd be extremely pissed.

Sorry, I don't believe anything Kirk Minihane says. He's a professional turd stirrer.

 

[raduray]

So, in your eyes, any player who is going to be a UFA after the SB should get free reign to snub team rules during the week leading up to the SB. It shouldn't matter because, well, it's the SB.

Have you stopped to think how damaging THAT truly is to a team??

So you're saying it's OK to sacrifice the SB in order to enforce some sort of future discipline?

How about the damage that does to the rest of the team knowing that their coach did not deploy all available weapons in order to enforce some sort of discipline? What does that now do the perception of the Pats as a winning organization when it comes to recruiting free agents?

 

[chumpchange]

Minnehan on the radio this morning said his sources inside the Patriots said Belichick has soured on Butler's play over the year and wanted to bench him during the AFC Championship game, but was talked out of it. He decided a few hours before the Super Bowl, after watching him in practice all week, he was benching him and informed Patricia. The coaches and the players did not know, which confirms what Rowe said that he didn't know he was starting until an hour before the game.

The source said the players aren't happy and that it may have cost them the Super Bowl. This was based more on his play then any disciplinary action. For what it's worth, Minnehan's source has given him some good info in the past that Minnehan broke.

If this is true and Butler was benched more for play then some huge indiscretion then this loss is 100% on Belichick's arrogance and if I was a player who has given their all this year I'd be extremely pissed.

Which is why I think it was all ego. He wanted it his way, even if that way was wrong. If Belichick benched Malcolm for a bad practice, anyone with common sense would have put him in after the half after seeing the new scheme was failing miserably. Belichick apparently felt it was more important to be "right" than to win, because that is the only viable reason for not making an adjustment. Maybe he assumed Tom could pull out the win without a defense, as he almost did. Pure hubris. "Foolish pride" as Hightower said.

 

[raduray]

If it was something like Butler was out getting drunk and came to practice hung over, is Belichick supposed to let it slide because it's the Superbowl? What sort of message does that send to his future players?
If that's the case, then Belichick shouldn't have been put in that position and this is Butler's fault.

Hypothetical question: If you knew for certain a miscreant player (particularly one who had played in all the other games during the season) would be the difference in winning the SB, would you play him?

Secondary question: If you're not going to play him, why activate him?

 

[Steve102]

So you're saying it's OK to sacrifice the SB in order to enforce some sort of future discipline?

How about the damage that does to the rest of the team knowing that their coach did not deploy all available weapons in order to enforce some sort of discipline? What does that now do the perception of the Pats as a winning organization when it comes to recruiting free agents?

I think it says he has built an organization with a a long tradition of winning. It says he believes in the next man up. It says that "do your job" isn't a catch phrase to sell t-shirts, but a mantra to live by. It's the very basis of what being a Patriot means.

Butler, by all accounts, didn't do his job, so BB did his and benched him. Now, perhaps BB did not do his job correctly by getting the rest of the secondary ready. that's another topic.

Any future free agents will look at what happened and make their decision accordingly. If they want to be part of that type of organization, they will sign here. If they don't, they won't. Pretty cut and dried. Not everyone is a good fit for each other.

 

[Boomer B]

Hypothetical question: If you knew for certain a miscreant player (particularly one who had played in all the other games during the season) would be the difference in winning the SB, would you play him?

Secondary question: If you're not going to play him, why activate him?

This is what I don't understand. We are 2 days after the Super Bowl. If Butler had truly done something really bad, it would have been leaked by now. We know that the Pats have ties to Shefter and Rapoport to get their info out.

So to me it doesn't come down to some huge indiscretion on Butler's part but more on what Belichick said from the beginning. It's not discipline. I don't fault Belichick for not starting him if he truly thought Rowe was the better option, but what is not forgivable is when the train had gone off the tracks and Chung was getting burnt by Agholor, Bademosi couldn't make a tackle, etc... that Butler was still sitting on the bench. One Stop, ONE FRIGGIN STOP is all they needed for a win. I just cannot understand this.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Sorry, I don't believe anything Kirk Minihane says. He's a professional turd stirrer.

He's a drama queen but his sources are generally reliable.

 

[IllegalContact]

So, in your eyes, any player who is going to be a UFA after the SB should get free reign to snub team rules during the week leading up to the SB. It shouldn't matter because, well, it's the SB.

Have you stopped to think how damaging THAT truly is to a team??

raising another trophy would have mitigated that in a huge way........being an absolutist will absolutely lead to failure sooner or later

 

[IcyPatriot]

Very hard to blame this on Belichick: Foles had a 106 passer rating for the Super Bowl.

In the two games preceding the Super Bowl, Butler hadn’t been playing especially well.

He was targeted 12 times in two playoff games and gave up eight receptions for 116 yards, two TDs, and no picks.
QBs had a 137.5 passer rating when throwing at him. His poor play also illustrates the point Butler had about his coaches giving up on him instead of trusting him to put things together for the Super Bowl.

Malcolm Butler’s 1 play in Super Bowl makes situation stranger

 

[SalemPats]

Which part? Sitting Malcolm? The defensive game plan? Not having an athletic enough front 7? Not covering Foles during the TD catch?


What should not be happening are fans who think the winning culture this dynasty is built on is something casual.

Sitting MB was a dumb move.

No one is questioning the winning culture, but we are saying this game was not one of BB's finest moment. Especially considering how great Brady was on Sunday

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Allen Iverson has something to say about this

 

[DaBruinz]

Yet as starting CB playing 98% of snaps, they had the league's best defense in points allowed from week5-17, where their front7 was terrible and Butler was a huge part of a strong secondary

SMH.. Gotta love revisionist history and it's not even cold yet..
- The front 7 was better than people gave credit for. Especially when you consider that they were without Vincent Valentine, Dont'a Hightower, and Shea McClellin.
- The front 7 was so terrible they were something like 7th overall in terms of Hits, Pressures and Sacks on the season.

- Yep. So terrible that they put up 11 sacks in 2 games in the play-offs against 2 of the better O-lines in the league.

 

[DaBruinz]

I can 100% certainty that he would have performed better

Stat: Foles was 6 of 7 for 137 yards on third down when targeting Rowe, Bademosi and Richards, who were all in the game over Butler.

No. You can't. The fact is that you have no clue what would have happened and you're deluding yourself to claim otherwise.

You are ignoring the fact that the Eagles play-calling would have changed if Butler had been in there and there would have been no guarantee that the Eagles wouldn't have done the same thing.

 

[RobertWeathers]

BB's the greatest coach ever but you have to admit he had a bad night on Sunday. He watched his defense give up big 3rd downs left and right

If you want to say BBs game plan was putrid and didn't make adjustments I will support you in that observation

and he didn't even look at butler and said go in the game.

Correct because he didn't think he could help the team win.