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Malcolm Butler Mega Thread


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It meshes well with the stuff Giardi wrote. I dont think there will be any big scandal coming out because there was none. He dogged it in practice, snapped at people and was deemed not reliable. Breaking no tolerance team rules about curfew and "visitors" in restricted areas then where just the icing on top.

It sucks that his time with the Pats will be tainted by how he approached his final week with the team before the SB nonetheless. But it is only fitting that his career in NE started being subbed in for a benched player in a SB and ends with being benched himself in another championship game.
 
Welker benching was dumb, Seymour was traded to get a high pick and because he was expensive.

Lets be honest their is no winning culture without Brady.

Clearly you don't know enough about this team. I was referring to Seymour being benched because he returned late from a family funeral. I was not referring to when the Pats traded him. Good job on knowing your team history. Even better ignoring everything else.
 
No matter who you believe, why to hell was Butler on the sideline and part of the 46-man roster if he wasn't going to play. We lost Cooks early and we could have lost other players, so we sacrifice a possible backup in exchange for a more explicit humiliation of Butler. Were all seven inactives so bad that BB preferred a wasted player on the sideline? C'mon, no way.

I'm with those who believes Butler's absence messed up the whole backfield defense, and almost certainly cost us the game.

DaBruinz can't answer that question
 
Clearly you don't know enough about this team. I was referring to Seymour being benched because he returned late from a family funeral. I was not referring to when the Pats traded him. Good job on knowing your team history. Even better ignoring everything else.

Ok hero, let me guess you never played high level sports
 
He already embarrassed Butler in the worst of ways. He also embarrassed himself. Let's not pretend that Belichick is looking out for Butler's best interests.

You are right though, I am not owed anything. Belichick owes his players for ****ing up however.

Belichick has regularly looked out for player's interests by not bad-mouthing them in the media.

No. Belichick didn't embarrass himself.

What it Belichick who "f**ked* up or was it Butler? You seem to think it was JUST Belichick and that Butler's actions don't matter.
 
So you're saying it's OK to sacrifice the SB in order to enforce some sort of future discipline?

How about the damage that does to the rest of the team knowing that their coach did not deploy all available weapons in order to enforce some sort of discipline? What does that now do the perception of the Pats as a winning organization when it comes to recruiting free agents?


Fact: I want NO FREE AGENT IN HERE that would have done what Butler did.

I don't want a greedy, delusional possible cancer in NE.

Thank you and good day.
 
You just did.

No, he didn't. Questioning one move is not automatically questioning the entire culture.


What the hell is wrong with some of you people? Questioning one decision doesn't mean you're questioning the entire culture. It questions one freaking decision. And it's a very logical thing to do. One can certainly argue:

  1. If Butler didn't do something bad enough to merit a game benching, he should have been brought in at some point, because it was obvious that the personnel on the field wasn't getting the job done.
  2. If Butler did do something bad enough to merit a game benching, he should have been made inactive.

without arguing that the general culture should be questioned.
 
Sounds a lot like projecting. Not that Andy and I are particularly friendly most of the time but the last thing you should call out is his football knowledge.
His football knowledge is "googled" that is all I am saying. Feel free to formulate your own opinions.
 
Giardi has a pretty extensive take here: Giardi: Malcolm Butler Benching Was "Culmination Of Events"

Excerpts that were of interest to me:



The missed flight doesn't sound like anything that was on him.



As most people assumed he was dressed as an emergency player that would only hit the field if absolutely necessary. If Jonathan Jones was still healthy there was a good chance Butler is inactive.




Weed is still in play but no clear confirmation yet.




Not only did he miss curfew he also brought "someone" back to his room. Both are no tolerance things. This kinda meshes well with that odd Reiss article from summer where he emphasized vaguely that most other players on the team are married with children.





It seems like the tight lips at Foxboro have held back quite a lot of things Butler was up to throughout his stay here. And it all came together in one big bang in his final game because he could not maintain himself during SB week for a few more days.

Ok, this one seems to balance the equation. People won’t like this but if rules like that are set down and everyone agrees. Well, what can I say? If curfew and bringing anyone into the team hotel are understood deal breakers and you violate that then no, you don’t play
 
Belichick has regularly looked out for player's interests by not bad-mouthing them in the media.

No. Belichick didn't embarrass himself.

What it Belichick who "f**ked* up or was it Butler? You seem to think it was JUST Belichick and that Butler's actions don't matter.

Exactly. Obviously, he thought by dressing him, it looks more like scheme related, as opposed to disciplinary. Now, we know and Butler is screwed, mainly because BUtler started crying on the sidelines, and then people just assumed he is big enough or was healthy enough to play.

Philly has bigger WRs.

If Gilmore, Bademosi or Rowe got hurt, Butler comes in.

The disconnect is the WHO they had on WHO. That is where BB failed.
 
No matter who you believe, why to hell was Butler on the sideline and part of the 46-man roster if he wasn't going to play. We lost Cooks early and we could have lost other players, so we sacrifice a possible backup in exchange for a more explicit humiliation of Butler. Were all seven inactives so bad that BB preferred a wasted player on the sideline? C'mon, no way.

You answered your own question. He was on the sideline in case of injury to a CB.

Cooks got injured ? Dorsett went in. Chung got injured ? Richards was in. What happens if Gilmore suffers a concussion if Butler is made inactive ?

I am honestly not sure if you are just trolling or actually not seeing the answer right in front of you.
 
they will see a leader who chose not winning the biggest game, due to hubris
We're gonna disagree, bud. He's not Parcells. He has a system, and he's unwavering in it. Unbending. It's a case of A=B. You do ____, then you have the consequences. It's not hubris, it's how he runs this organization. He's unable, incapable, of altering his system. There's gonna be players that want to be part of it. There's gonna be players who don't. Players in this locker room. It's gonna be like when he cut Lawyer Milloy. Guys are gonna want out. Other's will want in. The train keeps a rollin'.
 
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This question Really depends on severity of offense.

1. Butler misses meeting and literally did stay out past curfew and was drunk and or stoned. No, I would neither play him and would probably just send him home.

2. If it’s just a bad practice and I’m upset about his play then I may sit him until I saw this nightmare going down then I’d try him just to see if he could pull off a stop

3. If it’s like one guy saying all it was is women and weed. It’s hard to say bro. I mean with the league and the utter crap storm that would happen if it was discovered. I don’t know what I would do.

That’s the thing though . B.B. has to of been faced with something dire to do this and refuse to adjust. Or, maybe I’m wrong and the guy just missed a meeting and B.B. said to hell with your bs Malcolm. I don’t see it this way though, I think it’s many things

I have a hunch that Butler was not going to take as many snaps in the first place, based on scheme, which made him check out even more the week prior.

This was all but confirmed by Rowe/MCCourty, if I am not mistaken.

Add in the additional antics by Butler and BB essentially demoted him, but dressed him in reserve.

Butler should not have cried over this. I find this troubling. There are guys every week who don't see as many snaps based on scheme.

I am sorry, but a 5'11 Butler on Jeffery would have been a disaster, so that's Gilmore in single man or Rowe with help. This is where I differ with BB.

Gilmore and his 14 mil needed to be on Agoholor, since e's by far their best all around WR. Jeffery is the school of Mike Wallace, but with more size and athleticism, but conceptually, it's a bracket job to dictate that Foles will not have that option, deep.

This is where BB/Patricia failed. If you know you Foles not even risking any balls to Jeffery based on the Harmon bracketing, it would have allowed Bademosi on Toerry Smith, which I believe would have worked fine, and McCourty down in the box in run support and maybe some blitzing when they needed it. One way to beat the RPO, is to blitz.

I am shocked at how they whiffed on this, because I don't think Butler over Bademosi changes that game. It's the concept and the scheme with personnel match ups in man that mattered. I have no idea how a HOF coach, the greatest ever, whiffed on this approach.

Chung on Ertz. Worked well pre-conussion.

Flowers on Clement. Was working. Nice coverage on the incomplete pass ruled a TD and nice plays around the line later in the game.

No idea what they ended up doing at halftime. The move for Gilmore on Jeffrey did work, but it didn't solve Agoholor or extra pressure on Foles.
 
Ok hero, let me guess you never played high level sports

Awesome strawman argument. You decide to question my "experience of high level sports" because you've shown that your actual knowledge is lacking of this team and how it's disciplined players in the past.

I played High School and College hockey. And guess what. The good coaches didn't have to discipline the star players we had because they didn't break the team rules.
 
He could have sent him home or made him a scratch. Why was he only told after warmups.

I think this is overblown.

BB believes it doesn't matter if a player is told they are starting or not. Just get ready to play.

This was not BB's finest moment

Depends on how you look at it.

Malcolm's was far worse.
 
You answered your own question. He was on the sideline in case of injury to a CB.

Cooks got injured ? Dorsett went in. Chung got injured ? Richards was in. What happens if Gilmore suffers a concussion if Butler is made inactive ?

I am honestly not sure if you are just trolling or actually not seeing the answer right in front of you.

Nailed it. I just tried to explain this to my 70 year old uncle, season ticket holder since 1978, and he's still not getting it.

With Jon Jones out for the year, BB would have had to promote a PS CB, and made Butler Inactive, which in turn, would have made this even a deeper circus.

By dressing Butler but his need not there, after the demotion, this was a way to prioritize need on game day.

Shocking news on Super Bowl Sunday, sure, but I honestly thought it meant he didn't practice or practice well only due to the flu and he'd eventually make it in for strategic purposes.
 
Awesome strawman argument. You decide to question my "experience of high level sports" because you've shown that your actual knowledge is lacking of this team and how it's disciplined players in the past.

I played High School and College hockey. And guess what. The good coaches didn't have to discipline the star players we had because they didn't break the team rules.

Where did you play in college? Just curious.
 
Or you can just go back to the other game Rowe started over Butler and see that Brees threw for 356 yards. Or you could take a look at the turnaround in the secondary took place in the games Rowe missed. Upon his return the secondary returned to its previous form making Cutler look like an all pro and then Rowe and Richards allowing JuJu Smith-Schuster to break off a play for 69 yards that would have cost us the game if not for the James catch being overturned.

Dude, Brees throws for 356 yards on everyone every week. Approx 300 yards every week is the new norm for even above average QBs in this league.

Do you watch the NFL?

As for Smith Schuster, why did Patricia have them in man like a complete bonehead?

Why wasn't that a prevent zone to keep players in front of everyone? I think I know why a very good coordinator had them in man and not zone there................Gilmore doesn't like zone.

So, this is another problem they need to fix in the offseason.

No one in their right mind would play man protecting a lead with 40 seconds to go.
 
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