Making Believe At Wide Receiver

[RayClay]

Re: Making Believe At Wide Reciever

Branch was noticeably hampered by a hamstring a week ago, so I assume that's still a problem. He's the most important receiver if he's healthy. Welker is a slot receiver and he's in the first year of recovery = not nearly as quick. Tate is learning the ropes and the tight ends are still rookies, even if they don't look it sometimes.

If Branch gets back to his form a few weeks ago, the rest is more likely to fall in line. It's a system and Branch runs a lot of the important routes.

Having guys who are learning, or a little slow from injuries might cause Brady to be off, I think he'll get it back. Revisionist historians, look up the offense this year with Moss here and his contribution. It wasn't much.

 

[rojo8401]

Re: Making Believe At Wide Reciever

That would have been like a 2 yard completion if I am remembering the play correctly, and that was a catchable ball. NFL players should make the catch 90% of the time if they can get their hands on the ball without a defender hitting them.

What about Gronk fumbling at the 5 yard line? Tate dropping a sure 1st down? Gronk/Morris miscommunication on the kickoff? Those would have dramatically altered the game, not the play you referenced.

I remember him leading Gronk when he should have just thrown it directly to him. There was plenty of open space after that. The announcer even questioned the throw at the time.

Your other points are valid and I certainly wasn't trying to diminish them rather I was trying to say that Brady was not without fault and has been very inconsistent with his accuracy of late.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Making Believe At Wide Reciever

Any reason we're not using Edelman?

 

[patsinthesnow]

Re: Making Believe At Wide Reciever

Any reason we're not using Edelman?

Maybe since in garbage time the one pass thrown to him gets ripped out of him for an interception.

Joking, wondering the same. But that play didn't help his chances.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Making Believe At Wide Reciever

Can't speak for anyone else but I've been watching NFL football since the 70's. Tom Brady's inconsistent play and lack of game time readiness has been a problem all season.

No, it hasn't, which is a big reason why the team is 6-2.

He has yet to play a quality 60 minutes.

Considering he did that in the very first game of the year, I don't think I'll bother commenting further on this.

How many busted routes from the recievers vs how many pressure-less bad throws from Brady?? Thank God the receivers don't act out when Brady misfires.
Time to MAN UP Tom.

Heard two different #Patriots players mention offensive issues and how receivers can't "make up routes. Got to do what we're coached."

Twitter / Ian R. Rapoport: Heard two different #Patri ...

Pretty clear that busted routes were an issue.

 

[Mack Herron]

Re: Making Believe At Wide Reciever

In 2001, Brady's QB rating was 86.5. In 2003, it was 85.9. In 2004, it was 92.6. Last year it was 96.2. Brady's QB rating this year is 95.7.

People who claim Brady is not the player he used to be (he's better), has been having a bad year, etc. need to present some evidence. Brady is the least of the problems on this team.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Making Believe At Wide Reciever

Maybe since in garbage time the one pass thrown to him gets ripped out of him for an interception.

Joking, wondering the same. But that play didn't help his chances.

He looks out of synch, but that's natural when you don't have a role. Remember, the damn guy forced himself on the team never having played WR. I hope we're not worried about hurting Welker's feelings, but he's not 100%.

Given what we've seen of Edelmans will when given a chance, why not give him a definite role as part time slot part time something else? Why wouldn't you want a smart guy like that on the field ready to go at least sometime?

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Making Believe At Wide Reciever

He looks out of synch, but that's natural when you don't have a role. Remember, the damn guy forced himself on the team never having played WR. I hope we're not worried about hurting Welker's feelings, but he's not 100%.

Given what we've seen of Edelmans will when given a chance, why not give him a definite role as part time slot part time something else? Why wouldn't you want a smart guy like that on the field ready to go at least sometime?

At this point, I wouldn't slide him into Welker's spot. Nor would I put him in in front of Hernandez. That would leave him relegated to snaps when the offense goes five wide. That's why we might see him a bit against the Steelers. Belichick has said before how hard it is to run on the Steelers and, in the past, we've seen a gameplan where we put the ball into Brady's hands to win the game for us. I expect a good amount of passing next weekend with us actually going into five wide more often than we have so far this season.

 

[ATippett56]

Re: Making Believe At Wide Reciever

He looks out of synch, but that's natural when you don't have a role. Remember, the damn guy forced himself on the team never having played WR. I hope we're not worried about hurting Welker's feelings, but he's not 100%.

Given what we've seen of Edelmans will when given a chance, why not give him a definite role as part time slot part time something else? Why wouldn't you want a smart guy like that on the field ready to go at least sometime?

Aaron Hernandez fills the role of Edelman this season.

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: Making Believe At Wide Reciever

At this point, I wouldn't slide him into Welker's spot. Nor would I put him in in front of Hernandez. That would leave him relegated to snaps when the offense goes five wide. That's why we might see him a bit against the Steelers. Belichick has said before how hard it is to run on the Steelers and, in the past, we've seen a gameplan where we put the ball into Brady's hands to win the game for us. I expect a good amount of passing next weekend with us actually going into five wide more often than we have so far this season.

I would agree with this as well. The Patriots will not have any success running the ball next week so they are going to need to find ways to get the ball to Welker quickly over the middle like he was able to with Moss around. They will probably try some screens as well, which could be effective against the Steeler blitz. It will be very interesting to see what the Pats game plan will be

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Making Believe At Wide Reciever

I would agree with this as well. The Patriots will not have any success running the ball next week so they are going to need to find ways to get the ball to Welker quickly over the middle like he was able to with Moss around. They will probably try some screens as well, which could be effective against the Steeler blitz. It will be very interesting to see what the Pats game plan will be

The Steelers blitz at least one of their OLB's on almost every play, it seems. I've been watching the game and I've seen a ton of blitzes from either Harrison, Woodley, or both. And when I say almost every play, I'm not kidding. Watch it and see for yourself. It's one of the primary reasons why our screen game has killed them in the past. We'll give them the screens until they stop blitzing and then we'll try to hit the deep and intermediate areas. Hopefully our WR's can get some separation.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Re: Making Believe At Wide Reciever

In 2001, Brady's QB rating was 86.5. In 2003, it was 85.9. In 2004, it was 92.6. Last year it was 96.2. Brady's QB rating this year is 95.7.

People who claim Brady is not the player he used to be (he's better), has been having a bad year, etc. need to present some evidence. Brady is the least of the problems on this team.

I find it amusing that people are now pointing to Brady's stats to support the claim that he's such a great QB when Manning's stats were dismissed when he was a statistical monster that couldn't win playoff games.

What matter is if a player can deliver when they need to, Brady did this in the first game of the 09 season against the Bills at the end, that was awesome but we haven't seen that magic since then.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

This thread is like a patsfans.com primer on who understands the game and scheme on at least it's basic level and who just thinks they do based on when you win your OK and when you lose it's obviously the QB or the OC who aren't up to the task...LOL

This has always been a tough offense to learn. Takes a player with instincts and vision and work ethic off the scale. That's why one of the biggest mistakes Bill ever made (and he does make them just at a less daunting clip than the league HC/GM average) was letting Branch and Givens slip away. I can understand why it happened at the time with the cap constraints and Bill's devotion to a system that refuses to overpay for talent. It just didn't factor in the value of intangibles at the time. And of course it was predicated somewhat on Bill's concern for durability in Branch's case, which as fate would have it were justified. I don't think he was concerned that Givens would be lost so much as overpaid, but as that turned out can you imagine what the consequences would have been here had we kept them both at a combined $14M per...although we might have had a fourth Lombardi to console those among us who are at all consolable. Many aren't ever consolable under any circumstances short of unrelenting domination.

This is a good group but not a great group of receivers - including the TE's. It has the potential to be very good, but achieving that is on them. And injuries and growing pains are going to be a factor short and long term. As will be the existence of a viable running game beyond Danny Woodhead... The QB won't be a factor, he's the one true constant in the mix here and anyone who can't grasp that should take up watching another sport on TV in hopes of developing some grasp of it.

 

[ATippett56]

As will be the existence of a viable running game beyond Danny Woodhead...

To depend on a 34 year old Kevin Faulk, a 34 year old Fred Taylor, a 33 year old Sammy Morris for the Patriots rushing attack after trading Laurence Maroney is questionable. Meanwhile, the Patriots cut Terrence Wheatley, who was 2008 2nd round draft pick, while a 34 year old Fred Taylor languishes on the Patriots roster inactive game after game after game. In addition, Javarris James was released from the Patriots practice squad only to land on the Colts roster. Brilliant!

 

[pats_premi]

Just asking, do you think the playing surface has anything to do with WRs not getting open ? My thinking is that Patriots WR use their quickness to get open and they may not be making quick cuts on grass. They played two of their worst games on grass in San Diego and Cleaveland.

 

[Snake Eyes]

To depend on a 34 year old Kevin Faulk, a 34 year old Fred Taylor, a 33 year old Sammy Morris for the Patriots rushing attack after trading Laurence Maroney is questionable. Meanwhile, the Patriots cut Terrence Wheatley, who was 2008 2nd round draft pick, while a 34 year old Fred Taylor languishes on the Patriots roster inactive game after game after game. In addition, Javarris James was released from the Patriots practice squad only to land on the Colts roster. Brilliant!

____Agreed.

 

[mgteich]

I think that we are set at TE for many years. It is hard to imagine a better job at filling a position that the FO achieved at TE. And of course, we have solid returners.

Branch may be a solid patch for now. Perhaps he can get healthy and be around for awhile.

But how good are Tate, Edelman and Price??? Are they the best that the FO can give Brady?

.This is a good group but not a great group of receivers - including the TE's. It has the potential to be very good, but achieving that is on them. And injuries and growing pains are going to be a factor short and long term. As will be the existence of a viable running game beyond Danny Woodhead... The QB won't be a factor, he's the one true constant in the mix here and anyone who can't grasp that should take up watching another sport on TV in hopes of developing some grasp of it.

 

[JMarr]

Re: Making Believe At Wide Reciever

Not al lthe low throws are always on Brady. I recall last week or maybe 2 weeks ago he had a low pass throw to Welker coming acorss the middle (right to left) on a 3rd down play that went right to Welker's feet. I recall thinking the same thing, unless you looked at the replay and you saw that Welker had to adjust his route because the ref was standign there i nthe middle. If Welker had been unable to keep his route, the pass would have hit him at the waist or in the numbers.

Withotu the deep threat, it seems like we're playing every snap as if opposing defenses are applying a red zone-like defense to our team.

This. I'll just add that many [if not most] of the low throws have been intentional by Brady this year. Brady's goal is to limit turnovers at all costs, which is the reason he's one of the smartest quarterback in the league.
Better to have a drive sputter than to make a turnover in a crucial situation. It's not really rocket science.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

To depend on a 34 year old Kevin Faulk, a 34 year old Fred Taylor, a 33 year old Sammy Morris for the Patriots rushing attack after trading Laurence Maroney is questionable. Meanwhile, the Patriots cut Terrence Wheatley, who was 2008 2nd round draft pick, while a 34 year old Fred Taylor languishes on the Patriots roster inactive game after game after game. In addition, Javarris James was released from the Patriots practice squad only to land on the Colts roster. Brilliant!

Well, we got Woodhead via the same kind of brilliant thinking in the swamp...and he has essentially replaced Faulk. But the fact remains this team needs to be capable of running for more than a couple of yards on first down and capable of picking up a couple of yards on the ground consistently when the going gets tough, and given this is a better pass blocking OL than run blocking OL even with the addition of two better run blocking TE's, sticking with (or counting on) Taylor in light of the fact that Bill had to know early on that jettisoning Moss was an evolutionary possibility (and his draft somewhat underscored that) - he needed to insure he had a thumper and a 2nd string thumper just in case. BJGE is a hard worker and under ideal matchup circumstances he can make some yardage. But absent a true FB he's not a pile driver who can make 2-3 out of nothing against a tough run defense like Fred can when healthy or Dillon could in his heyday even running behind an OL geared to pass block.

Bill's not perfect. But that doesn't make him the village idiot, either. I think his problem sometimes is he knows if they execute they can make it work as is. Trouble is this team struggles to execute consistently in unison. His way can work, it just isn't working consistently to date. Fans here panic when things don't always work to perfection. It's the fallout from 3 Lombardis and 4 trips to the superbowl and 5 AFCC games (and one undefeated regular season and back to back 14-2 seasons) in less than a decade. If you aren't consistently dominant after accomplishing all that then it must be the sign that Belichick or Brady must be losing it...

 

[ATippett56]

Bill's not perfect. But that doesn't make him the village idiot, either. I think his problem sometimes is he knows if they execute they can make it work as is. Trouble is this team struggles to execute consistently in unison. His way can work, it just isn't working consistently to date. Fans here panic when things don't always work to perfection.

I'm just questioning some of the latest personnel decisions over the last few years. Trading Richard Seymour to the Oakland Raiders for a 2011 first round draft pick makes sense. However, trading a third and fifth round draft pick to the Oakland Raiders for Derrick Burgess was mind boggling. The New England Patriots cut Terrence Wheatley, a promising 2008 2nd round draft pick though injury prone, while a 34 year old Fred Taylor has missed more games than played since his arrival in 2009 and still remains on the roster.