Making Believe At Wide Receiver

[Deus Irae]

I'm just questioning some of the latest personnel decisions over the last few years. Trading Richard Seymour to the Oakland Raiders for a 2011 first round draft pick makes sense. However, trading a third and fifth round draft pick to the Oakland Raiders for Derrick Burgess was mind boggling. The New England Patriots cut Terrence Wheatley, a promising 2008 2nd round draft pick though injury prone, while a 34 year old Fred Taylor has missed more games than played since his arrival in 2009 and still remains on the roster.

Nothing wrong with questioning the moves. BB's made a fair number of terrible decisions in the past two years.

 

[emoney_33]

I'm just questioning some of the latest personnel decisions over the last few years. Trading Richard Seymour to the Oakland Raiders for a 2011 first round draft pick makes sense. However, trading a third and fifth round draft pick to the Oakland Raiders for Derrick Burgess was mind boggling. The New England Patriots cut Terrence Wheatley, a promising 2008 2nd round draft pick though injury prone, while a 34 year old Fred Taylor has missed more games than played since his arrival in 2009 and still remains on the roster.

Wheatley will not be helping the 2010 team, Fred Taylor will be. Taylor is head and shoulders above BJGE, we will NEED him at the end of the year and playoffs. My hope is that they are being extra cautious him like they had been with Maroney in the past.

 

[JackBauer]

To depend on a 34 year old Kevin Faulk, a 34 year old Fred Taylor, a 33 year old Sammy Morris for the Patriots rushing attack after trading Laurence Maroney is questionable. Meanwhile, the Patriots cut Terrence Wheatley, who was 2008 2nd round draft pick, while a 34 year old Fred Taylor languishes on the Patriots roster inactive game after game after game. In addition, Javarris James was released from the Patriots practice squad only to land on the Colts roster. Brilliant!

You're really going to lament the loss of Javarris James? Take a look at the Colts situation at RB and you'll discover how someone like James could stick on their roster.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I think that we are set at TE for many years. It is hard to imagine a better job at filling a position that the FO achieved at TE. And of course, we have solid returners.

Branch may be a solid patch for now. Perhaps he can get healthy and be around for awhile.

But how good are Tate, Edelman and Price??? Are they the best that the FO can give Brady?

For now, yeah... The decision that shall not be referred to was made not because they thought they had a slam dunk based on addition by subtraction, it was because that player wasn't actually a substantive difference maker anymore and the situation had the potential to get worse. In fact he was in some ways causing more trouble than he was worth on and off the field. Blocking the potential development of others while causing Brady to make increasingly riskier throws and pay the price in three and outs or worse...INT's or meltdowns.

Come draft day there are lots of issues to be dealt with. Can't always just draft a better WR, they don't always work out here because it has as much to do here with intangibles and intelligence and work ethic as it does with talent. Ditto when you look to the FA market. No one was doing handstands about Branch and Givens back in 2002 and 2003...but they developed into something that worked best when it mattered most. So it takes patience to see what may develop. Brady, Brown, Bruschi, a whole host of pats HOF only lunchpail guys with multiple rings should have at least taught us that... The goal is for the well coached whole to be better than the sum of it's parts because no one in the NFL can afford to have a HOF/pro bowl/top of the market player manning every position and we have the HC and QB to run a consistent system and scheme. And even those much sought after mega talent guys don't always make every play and get it done or more of them would have rings.

I know a lot of fantasy fanatics believe we should have gone after Marshall or Jackson or drafted a certain WR in the first instead of some CB they never heard of or asked for a do over on the 2006 draft. What they fail to grasp is there is no guarantee, talent aside, that any player who succeeds in one system could succeed in another. Often times choices are predicated as much on system and scheme fit as raw talent. We don't play sandlot chuck and duck here. We're a fairly cerebral and accountable and disciplined outfit, and I for one wouldn't trade that and all it's already accomplished for some fan perceived potential short term gain at the expense of a long term they can't be bothered thinking about in the moment. We're a decade in and still relevant and contending mg...who'd a thought. Certainly not the Bledsoe-krishnas...who a decade later are still waiting for the other shoe to drop to prove they were right...

 

[Kontradiction]

For now, yeah... The decision that shall not be referred to was made not because they thought they had a slam dunk based on addition by subtraction, it was because that player wasn't actually a substantive difference maker anymore and the situation had the potential to get worse. In fact he was in some ways causing more trouble than he was worth on and off the field. Blocking the potential development of others while causing Brady to make increasingly riskier throws and pay the price in three and outs or worse...INT's or meltdowns.

Come draft day there are lots of issues to be dealt with. Can't always just draft a better WR, they don't always work out here because it has as much to do here with intangibles and intelligence and work ethic as it does with talent. Ditto when you look to the FA market. No one was doing handstands about Branch and Givens back in 2002 and 2003...but they developed into something that worked best when it mattered most. So it takes patience to see what may develop. Brady, Brown, Bruschi, a whole host of pats HOF only lunchpail guys with multiple rings should have at least taught us that... The goal is for the well coached whole to be better than the sum of it's parts because no one in the NFL can afford to have a HOF/pro bowl/top of the market player manning every position and we have the HC and QB to run a consistent system and scheme. And even those much sought after mega talent guys don't always make every play and get it done or more of them would have rings.

I know a lot of fantasy fanatics believe we should have gone after Marshall or Jackson or drafted a certain WR in the first instead of some CB they never heard of or asked for a do over on the 2006 draft. What they fail to grasp is there is no guarantee, talent aside, that any player who succeeds in one system could succeed in another. Often times choices are predicated as much on system and scheme fit as raw talent. We don't play sandlot chuck and duck here. We're a fairly cerebral and accountable and disciplined outfit, and I for one wouldn't trade that and all it's already accomplished for some fan perceived potential short term gain at the expense of a long term they can't be bothered thinking about in the moment. We're a decade in and still relevant and contending mg...who'd a thought. Certainly not the Bledsoe-krishnas...who a decade later are still waiting for the other shoe to drop to prove they were right...

I disagree that the decision was made because the player that shall not be named wasn't a substantive difference maker in the offense. He was, even when he wasn't doing anything. Just ask Welker and the rest of the underneath receivers. He made their lives a lot easier on game day. IMO, the decision was made because the player was going through what appeared to be a substantial mental breakdown and could have become a big time distraction to his team and teammates, particularly after he knew that the Pats weren't going to pay him. Nobody is going to argue that he hasn't lost a step. He has. But he did so much more to help out passing offense.

 

[everlong]

What they fail to grasp is there is no guarantee, talent aside, that any player who succeeds in one system could succeed in another. Often times choices are predicated as much on system and scheme fit as raw talent.

Ian R. Rapoport
Nick Caserio is making me laugh. Asked about Maurkice Pouncey in the draft, "You guys always think there are guys" who'd fit for Pats

 

[ATippett56]

You're really going to lament the loss of Javarris James? Take a look at the Colts situation at RB and you'll discover how someone like James could stick on their roster.

At this rate, Fred Taylor will miss practice for the remainder of the 2010 NFL Season.

 

[JackBauer]

At this rate, Fred Taylor will miss practice for the remainder of the 2010 NFL Season.

I hear you on Taylor... the guy can't stay healthy to save his life. I only hope that they're taking precautions and trying to rest him for the stretch. Reiss speculated that he might play against the Steelers, so we'll find out soon.

My only point was that, speaking as a big a UMiami homer as you will find, Javarris James is terrible.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Wheatley will not be helping the 2010 team, Fred Taylor will be. Taylor is head and shoulders above BJGE, we will NEED him at the end of the year and playoffs. My hope is that they are being extra cautious him like they had been with Maroney in the past.

Unfortunately listening to Zo talk about turf toe the other day, as innocuous as it sounds it has been and can be a career ender.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I disagree that the decision was made because the player that shall not be named wasn't a substantive difference maker in the offense. He was, even when he wasn't doing anything. Just ask Welker and the rest of the underneath receivers. He made their lives a lot easier on game day. IMO, the decision was made because the player was going through what appeared to be a substantial mental breakdown and could have become a big time distraction to his team and teammates, particularly after he knew that the Pats weren't going to pay him. Nobody is going to argue that he hasn't lost a step. He has. But he did so much more to help out passing offense.

I used the term substantive for a reason. Did he have an effect? yeah. Did it make a difference in the eventual outcome? Wouldn't appear so here or at his next stop. Yesterday adversity set in in the first quarter and continued into the second. Battling through adversity wasn't his strong suit. In fact at times he appeared to increasingly exacerbate it.

 

[JFK]

I think Fred isn't as hurt as we think. We are jus saving him for when the season is on the line. He is a top 10RB when healthy

 

[crowell33]

I think that we are set at TE for many years. It is hard to imagine a better job at filling a position that the FO achieved at TE. And of course, we have solid returners.

Branch may be a solid patch for now. Perhaps he can get healthy and be around for awhile.

But how good are Tate, Edelman and Price??? Are they the best that the FO can give Brady?

An interesting change in perception of Tom Brady's skills. For years it was, "Brady is so good he can win without Star wide receivers. Patten, Jefferson, Gaffney, Caldwell, etc, etc, etc." Much like Manning and Rivers are viewed today, the old thinking during the 2001, 2003 & 2004, SuperBowl seasons was that Brady could make lesser receivers great. Now the narrative is "we can only win if we surround Brady with top notch wide receivers."

 

[MustaphaM0nd]

An interesting change in perception of Tom Brady's skills. For years it was, "Brady is so good he can win without Star wide receivers. Patten, Jefferson, Gaffney, Caldwell, etc, etc, etc." Much like Manning and Rivers are viewed today, the old thinking during the 2001, 2003 & 2004, SuperBowl seasons was that Brady could make lesser receivers great. Now the narrative is "we can only win if we surround Brady with top notch wide receivers."

post-injury Brady != pre-injury Brady

EDIT: That means "does not equal"

 

[Deus Irae]

An interesting change in perception of Tom Brady's skills. For years it was, "Brady is so good he can win without Star wide receivers. Patten, Jefferson, Gaffney, Caldwell, etc, etc, etc." Much like Manning and Rivers are viewed today, the old thinking during the 2001, 2003 & 2004, SuperBowl seasons was that Brady could make lesser receivers great. Now the narrative is "we can only win if we surround Brady with top notch wide receivers."

The Patriots are 6-2. Clearly, they can win with what's on the roster. The Patriots are 3-1 since Moss was traded. Clearly, they can win without top notch wide receivers.

 

[emoney_33]

An interesting change in perception of Tom Brady's skills. For years it was, "Brady is so good he can win without Star wide receivers. Patten, Jefferson, Gaffney, Caldwell, etc, etc, etc." Much like Manning and Rivers are viewed today, the old thinking during the 2001, 2003 & 2004, SuperBowl seasons was that Brady could make lesser receivers great. Now the narrative is "we can only win if we surround Brady with top notch wide receivers."

When did you read that "we can only win" if we surround Brady with top notch wide receivers? I'm pretty damn sure we're currently winning without doing this. It's not that we can't win without certain things, it's that each position you upgrade makes it -easier- to win. We can win without Brady too, but I don't think anyone wants to see any other QB than Brady on this team for the foreseeable future.

 

[vyrago]

Re: Making Believe At Wide Reciever

Brady hasn't been good enough. I love him as a QB but I have to be honest.

So you're blaming Brady for Sunday's loss?
Does he get any credit for the six wins? Was he good enough until then?

 

[Kontradiction]

To depend on a 34 year old Kevin Faulk, a 34 year old Fred Taylor, a 33 year old Sammy Morris for the Patriots rushing attack after trading Laurence Maroney is questionable. Meanwhile, the Patriots cut Terrence Wheatley, who was 2008 2nd round draft pick, while a 34 year old Fred Taylor languishes on the Patriots roster inactive game after game after game. In addition, Javarris James was released from the Patriots practice squad only to land on the Colts roster. Brilliant!

Javarris James is terrible. The fact that he's cracked the starting line-up this season is a testimony to the injury situation within the Colts RB corps. The rest of your post is dead on, though.

 

[The Dynasty]

I think Fred isn't as hurt as we think. We are jus saving him for when the season is on the line. He is a top 10RB when healthy

Is this a joke?

 

[crowell33]

post-injury Brady != pre-injury Brady

EDIT: That means "does not equal"

Agreed. But still one of the best.

 

[JoeSixPat]

The decision that shall not be referred to was made not because they thought they had a slam dunk based on addition by subtraction, it was because that player wasn't actually a substantive difference maker anymore and the situation had the potential to get worse. In fact he was in some ways causing more trouble than he was worth on and off the field. Blocking the potential development of others while causing Brady to make increasingly riskier throws and pay the price in three and outs or worse...INT's or meltdowns...

Hadn't seen your post initially but you hit the nail on the head. Break down the stats and it's obvious that that Moss didn't account for even one completion of a pass thrown over 20 yards.

Brady's behind other players in deep passes overall as of now and is averaging one completion per game on a pass thrown over 20 yards.

Is that enough to keep defenses honest? maybe not. And while I think just having Moss on the team created enough defensive concern even if he didn't account for one deep pass... it was clear the bad outweighed the good.

Whether we have a credible deep game now is debatable, though there's nothing we can do about it. Given that Brady's still been surgically effective and efficient and its really tough to be down on him. I think its also a give Welker is not 100%.

The bottom line is that we have who we have at WR - and we know that's good enough to win... not 2007 good - but good enough to win. The lack of a deep game CAN catch up with you... but not always.