Making Believe At Wide Receiver

[BradyManny]

Believe me, I wasn't one of those on the bandwagon like a Michael Felger of feeling like Brandon Tate and the remaining parts will more than fill in for the loss of Moss. How stupid is he looking right now?, both him and Tanguay.

I advocated the trade - I'm feeling pretty stupid right now.

Considering - according to Schefter - the Patriots were ready to sign Moss had he cleared waivers, maybe BB is feeling a little stupid right now.

And the thing with Welker is - he's clearly not Welker right now. Hopefully, by years end, he will be - and that makes a monstrous difference.

But overall, I agree TB needs to play better himself. It's just that he can't do it alone. The offense - at large - needs improvemnt.

 

[D-Money]

Re: Making Believe At Wide Reciever

This team needs to do a better job evaluating wrs in the draft.They havent doned a good job.

 

[Deus Irae]

Fair enough, someone finally agrees that TB hasn't been real good to date, thanks for stepping up to the plate and not trying to find excuses to say that he's been fine and it's 100% on other issues, because that's the furthest thing from the truth.

Why do people consistently think that anyone who disagrees about a player must be making a 100% statement? Brady is not the problem. Only someone who doesn't understand football would think Brady is the problem. Do you not see Brady yelling at his receivers and pointing to the spots they should have run to? If you were listing the Patriots "problems" from most to least problematic, Brady would be either last, or second to last, on the list, depending upon how you feel about the way Wilfork's played.

That doesn't mean that Brady has been perfect. In the history of the NFL, no player has ever been perfect, and in the history of the world, only one 'man' has accomplished the feat. However, when you make claims about Brady's accuracy the way you have, you demonstrate that you don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about.

 

[emoney_33]

You can thank ex-Patriot Asante Samuel for that.

Another ball that dropped into his lap

But what on earth was he doing running all over the place like an idiot after that last INT?

 

[Uncle Rico]

Re: Making Believe At Wide Reciever

Interesting tweet from Rapoport:

Heard two different #Patriots players mention offensive issues and how receivers can't "make up routes. Got to do what we're coached.

Twitter / Ian R. Rapoport: Heard two different #Patri ...

 

[SVN]

Interesting, the Colts have lost the best pass-catching TE in football, insert a Jacob Tamme and don't lose a beat. He loses Collie, Gonzalez and his top 2 running backs and #18 is still, somehow, getting it done. Our excuses about injuries and youth are tough to buy really, other people are making it work with a heck of alot less.

i will give all our WRs except wes for reggie wayne.maybe throw in a running back too.

 

[SVN]

Why do people consistently think that anyone who disagrees about a player must be making a 100% statement? Brady is not the problem. Only someone who doesn't understand football would think Brady is the problem. Do you not see Brady yelling at his receivers and pointing to the spots they should have run to? If you were listing the Patriots "problems" from most to least problematic, Brady would be either last, or second to last, on the list, depending upon how you feel about the way Wilfork's played.

That doesn't mean that Brady has been perfect. In the history of the NFL, no player has ever been perfect, and in the history of the world, only one 'man' has accomplished the feat. However, when you make claims about Brady's accuracy the way you have, you demonstrate that you don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about.

curran wrote yesterday that brady was constantly agitated and he and wes were always talking about what they were missing.

 

[mgteich]

Now let me get this straight. The patriots were sucessful in the 2nd half of a game in 2007 running the ball after Brady trrew 3 interceptions in the first half, and therefore we should become more of a running team.

Utter nonsense huh? Revisit the second half of the 2007 AFC Championship Game. Brady was struggling and threw three interceptions with all that talent at wide receiver (Moss, Stallworth, Gaffney, Welker). McDaniels adjusted the game plan and the New England Patriots ran the ball in second half with Laurence Maroney against the San Diego Chargers. The New England Patriots ran the ball in second half of the Minnesota Vikings game just the week before.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

Why do people consistently think that anyone who disagrees about a player must be making a 100% statement? Brady is not the problem. Only someone who doesn't understand football would think Brady is the problem. Do you not see Brady yelling at his receivers and pointing to the spots they should have run to? If you were listing the Patriots "problems" from most to least problematic, Brady would be either last, or second to last, on the list, depending upon how you feel about the way Wilfork's played.

That doesn't mean that Brady has been perfect. In the history of the NFL, no player has ever been perfect, and in the history of the world, only one 'man' has accomplished the feat. However, when you make claims about Brady's accuracy the way you have, you demonstrate that you don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about.

Can't speak for anyone else but I've been watching NFL football since the 70's. Tom Brady's inconsistent play and lack of game time readiness has been a problem all season. He has yet to play a quality 60 minutes. How many busted routes from the recievers vs how many pressure-less bad throws from Brady?? Thank God the receivers don't act out when Brady misfires.
Time to MAN UP Tom.

 

[Uncle Rico]

Interesting, the Colts have lost the best pass-catching TE in football, insert a Jacob Tamme and don't lose a beat. He loses Collie, Gonzalez and his top 2 running backs and #18 is still, somehow, getting it done. Our excuses about injuries and youth are tough to buy really, other people are making it work with a heck of alot less.

Call it like it is.

Tom Brady has to be a better QB, he has to prepare a bit harder, his accuracy is reflective of that, and he has said himself that he has to improve. People talk about the completion %, do you recall how many catches Gronk has had to make with the ball behind his arse so far this season? Do you remember those ? There's been a number of those catches made that have improved TB's passing %, yet is really not reflective of the pass that was made and where the pass was placed. That one to Gronk in the flat yesterday that he badly missed on, if Gronk catches that ball, that was a 30 yard gain with him running it, there was no one in sight. The heave to Woodhead down the sideline ? What was that ? And a few other grounders and feet throws that we all saw yesterday, that has to improve. Those are all throws that a PM makes in his sleep never mind Rivers or Brees, Brady's accuracy simply has to improve.

Agree on most points. You can add in the overthrow of Tate down the sidelines too. Brady's been very hot (throwing some razor sharp precision passes into tight quarters) and cold (those darts into the ground; maybe he has too many short receivers).

As far as the Colts not missing a beat: They lost; and Manning's passer rating was 65.7.

 

[ATippett56]

Now let me get this straight. The patriots were sucessful in the 2nd half of a game in 2007 running the ball after Brady trrew 3 interceptions in the first half, and therefore we should become more of a running team.

If the wide receivers are struggling with the site adjustments and/or Brady is struggling with his accuracy, then start running the ball in the second half of games. If anything, I would like the see the New England Patriots offense run the ball more often, especially in the first half of football games.

 

[crowell33]

Interesting, the Colts have lost the best pass-catching TE in football, insert a Jacob Tamme and don't lose a beat. He loses Collie, Gonzalez and his top 2 running backs and #18 is still, somehow, getting it done. Our excuses about injuries and youth are tough to buy really, other people are making it work with a heck of alot less.

Call it like it is.

Tom Brady has to be a better QB, he has to prepare a bit harder, his accuracy is reflective of that, and he has said himself that he has to improve. People talk about the completion %, do you recall how many catches Gronk has had to make with the ball behind his arse so far this season? Do you remember those ? There's been a number of those catches made that have improved TB's passing %, yet is really not reflective of the pass that was made and where the pass was placed. That one to Gronk in the flat yesterday that he badly missed on, if Gronk catches that ball, that was a 30 yard gain with him running it, there was no one in sight. The heave to Woodhead down the sideline ? What was that ? And a few other grounders and feet throws that we all saw yesterday, that has to improve. Those are all throws that a PM makes in his sleep never mind Rivers or Brees, Brady's accuracy simply has to improve.

100 % percent agree, however don't expect your sound logic to get you too far in the threads. When Brady plays great, "he is great ". When Brady plays poorly the excuses start, " its the receivers ", or " its the offensive line ". For many posters, EVER saying that the O-line and the receivers played well, and that it was Brady who had a bad game, is heresy.

This is not unique to Brady. For those of us old enough to remember, the old refrain was that "Bledsoe is a Pro Bowl quarterback, but the rest of the team stinks, especially the offensive line." The teams losses were rarely blamed on Bledsoe. Then you swap out quarterbacks, and the team wins the SuperBowl.

 

[The Dynasty]

100 % percent agree, however don't expect your sound logic to get you too far in the threads. When Brady plays great, "he is great ". When Brady plays poorly the excuses start, " its the receivers ", or " its the offensive line ". For many posters, EVER saying that the O-line and the receivers played well, and that it was Brady who had a bad game, is heresy.

This is not unique to Brady. For those of us old enough to remember, the old refrain was that "Bledsoe is a Pro Bowl quarterback, but the rest of the team stinks, especially the offensive line." The teams losses were rarely blamed on Bledsoe. Then you swap out quarterbacks, and the team wins the SuperBowl.

How can you say that Brady has played poorly this season? He has played mistake free football all season long, and that is really one of the main components of the quarterback position. He has thrown 4 INTs all year, and one of which was on a hail mary. He has done a very good job this year of managing games and not making dumb mistakes.

Brady is getting way too much negative criticism because of the offensive struggles the past few weeks. Can you look at what he is working with? A extremely below average running game with a terrible run blocking OL, young WRs that are still learning how to run routes in the NFL and losing one of the best WRs in the game. The difference with the WRs now than in 2006 are that the WRs he had in 2006 were good route runners and Brady was able to find them. This year he is working with young guys who are still learning and not running the best routes, making it difficult for Brady to get them the ball. Also, he has been sacked 13 times so far this season, and he was only sacked 16 all of last season. I think that shows that the OL has struggled this year.

 

[crowell33]

How can you say that Brady has played poorly this season? He has played mistake free football all season long, and that is really one of the main components of the quarterback position. He has thrown 4 INTs all year, and one of which was on a hail mary. He has done a very good job this year of managing games and not making dumb mistakes.

Brady is getting way too much negative criticism because of the offensive struggles the past few weeks. Can you look at what he is working with? A extremely below average running game with a terrible run blocking OL, young WRs that are still learning how to run routes in the NFL and losing one of the best WRs in the game. The difference with the WRs now than in 2006 are that the WRs he had in 2006 were good route runners and Brady was able to find them. This year he is working with young guys who are still learning and not running the best routes, making it difficult for Brady to get them the ball. Also, he has been sacked 13 times so far this season, and he was only sacked 16 all of last season. I think that shows that the OL has struggled this year.

Your making my point, but I'll go on. During the SuperBowl years of 2001, 2003 and 2004 Brady was sacked an average of 33 times per season. In 2010, Brady is on pace to be sacked 26 times. Thus, the offensive line's pass protection is performing significantly better ( 22% reduction in sacks ) than the offensive lines of the Superbowl years.

Yet while discussing Brady you say "the OL has struggled this year."

 

[rojo8401]

Re: Making Believe At Wide Reciever

Brady has been missing throws for sure. It's not cause for panic but it's noticeable.

The Colts are decimated by injuries on both sides of the ball. I am very impressed by Manning's ability to keep that team functioning on any kind of professional level with the players that he has dressing. They lost to the Eagles, who are significantly better than the Browns.

The Pats have zero excuses for what happened yesterday. It was pathetic and demoralizing and Brady is just as responsible as everyone else. I am sure he knows that. All BB has to do is show him a couple throws he missed that could have dramatically altered the course of the game (Gronk wide open alone - why are you leading a TE with no wheels?) etc.

Season ain't over and I am optimistic. I just hate excuses and redemptive notions. A blowout to a bad team led by a rat fink is terrible any way you want to spin it.

 

[crowell33]

Re: Making Believe At Wide Reciever

Brady has been missing throws for sure. It's not cause for panic but it's noticeable.

The Colts are decimated by injuries on both sides of the ball. I am very impressed by Manning's ability to keep that team functioning on any kind of professional level with the players that he has dressing. They lost to the Eagles, who are significantly better than the Browns.

The Pats have zero excuses for what happened yesterday. It was pathetic and demoralizing and Brady is just as responsible as everyone else. I am sure he knows that. All BB has to do is show him a couple throws he missed that could have dramatically altered the course of the game (Gronk wide open alone - why are you leading a TE with no wheels?) etc.

Season ain't over and I am optimistic. I just hate excuses and redemptive notions. A blowout to a bad team led by a rat fink is terrible any way you want to spin it.

100 percent agree.

 

[The Dynasty]

Your making my point, but I'll go on. During the SuperBowl years of 2001, 2003 and 2004 Brady was sacked an average of 33 times per season. In 2010, Brady is on pace to be sacked 26 times. Thus, the offensive line's pass protection is performing significantly better ( 22% reduction in sacks ) than the offensive lines of the Superbowl years.

Yet while discussing Brady you say "the OL has struggled this year."

The difference between this and the SB years is that during the SB years the Pats had a running back that they could depend on, thus making it easier for Brady to pass the ball because it opened more things up. Another thing is that the WRs during the SB years were a lot better route runners than what Brady is working with now. He has a lot of young guys that are still learning how to run routes and get open.

Just because Brady is on pace for less sacks than the SB years doesnt mean that the OL is doing better. Brady has had to force a lot of throws and has been under a lot of pressure. Sacks are not the best measure as for how well an OL is playing

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: Making Believe At Wide Reciever

Brady has been missing throws for sure. It's not cause for panic but it's noticeable.

The Colts are decimated by injuries on both sides of the ball. I am very impressed by Manning's ability to keep that team functioning on any kind of professional level with the players that he has dressing. They lost to the Eagles, who are significantly better than the Browns.

The Pats have zero excuses for what happened yesterday. It was pathetic and demoralizing and Brady is just as responsible as everyone else. I am sure he knows that. All BB has to do is show him a couple throws he missed that could have dramatically altered the course of the game (Gronk wide open alone - why are you leading a TE with no wheels?) etc.

Season ain't over and I am optimistic. I just hate excuses and redemptive notions. A blowout to a bad team led by a rat fink is terrible any way you want to spin it.

That would have been like a 2 yard completion if I am remembering the play correctly, and that was a catchable ball. NFL players should make the catch 90% of the time if they can get their hands on the ball without a defender hitting them.

What about Gronk fumbling at the 5 yard line? Tate dropping a sure 1st down? Gronk/Morris miscommunication on the kickoff? Those would have dramatically altered the game, not the play you referenced.

 

[crowell33]

The difference between this and the SB years is that during the SB years the Pats had a running back that they could depend on, thus making it easier for Brady to pass the ball because it opened more things up. Another thing is that the WRs during the SB years were a lot better route runners than what Brady is working with now. He has a lot of young guys that are still learning how to run routes and get open.

Just because Brady is on pace for less sacks than the SB years doesnt mean that the OL is doing better. Brady has had to force a lot of throws and has been under a lot of pressure. Sacks are not the best measure as for how well an OL is playing

Sorry I can't go on this journey with you. Now its the running backs? You mean when we picked up Antowain Smith after he was cut from Buffalo in 2001 and we won the SuperBowl? The route runners were better ? The offensive line was also better ? Have a pleasant evening.

 

[The Dynasty]

Sorry I can't go on this journey with you. Now its the running backs? You mean when we picked up Antowain Smith after he was cut from Buffalo in 2001 and we won the SuperBowl? The route runners were better ? The offensive line was also better ? Have a pleasant evening.

Smith/Dillon vs. Woodhead/BJGE? Seriously? Not even close. Are you really telling me the RBs the Pats have now are better than the ones during the SB years?

The route runners certainly were better. Troy Brown was one of the best in the game at the time. Gaffney and Caldwell were a lot better then Tate is.

The OL then were all at the primes of their careers. The OL now has a lot of guys that are on their "back 9s" and just are not playing at the level that they were during the SB years. While there are some new younger faces on this years OL there are still guys (Light and Neal) that are nearing the end of their careers and it definitely is showing. Also, having Connolly starting this year effects the OL as well. The OL definitely was better during the SB years