Mahomes will never be better than Brady

[upstater1]

Brady said about Mahomes before the SB, "the moment is never too big for him." Even though they got destroyed I still believe that's true which puts him on the path to being in top tier. Andy Reid being compared to Bill is the bigger joke. They could have run the ball on Tampa all day long but once again Andy had Mike Martz disease. The moment is often too big for Andy. Is he great at schemes? Yes. Is he good at execution in the big moments? NO. The title last year was more about Mahomes going off than anything Andy did.

If Mahomes can stay healthy, and that's not a small if, I think he'll still pass Manning on the all time list. He's a better big game player already compared to Rodgers, Brees and really Peyton as well. Peyton's two titles the defense carried him. I'd also put him above Rapestburger who was awful in one SB and ok in two more. He's also come up small in the rest of the playoffs often enough.

At this point it's more probable people are right that Mahomes is the next Wilson than it is he catches Brady. And I think it's probably weighted 90-10. Hill and Kelce aren't going to be at this level for much longer. The Chiefs have cap issues which will hinder their getting OL depth. Pretty much like the Rams they better win it all in the next two years.

Only thing I take issue with is your assessment of Manning. Peyton was so much like Mahomes when he was younger as he tried to hit a home run all the time. He also choked a lot. Then he started watching Brady. And he became so much better. Pairing him with Welker made Manning a carbon copy of Brady, and Manning became a huge big game player. Capable of coming back on teams and elevating the team. I had a ton more respect for Peyton later in his career than I did earlier. He learned lessons that Andrew Luck never did.

 

[amfootball]

The window is closing, soon mahones will be the next Wilson.

He has a ways to go to be Wilson. Wilson has been in the playoffs every single year of his career except one time and has won at least one playoff game 6 times. Wilson also has not had Mahomes talent level on this teams either the last 5 years.

 

[jah]

Only thing I take issue with is your assessment of Manning. Peyton was so much like Mahomes when he was younger as he tried to hit a home run all the time. He also choked a lot. Then he started watching Brady. And he became so much better. Pairing him with Welker made Manning a carbon copy of Brady, and Manning became a huge big game player. Capable of coming back on teams and elevating the team. I had a ton more respect for Peyton later in his career than I did earlier. He learned lessons that Andrew Luck never did.

This is not how I remember Peyton's career. He was always pulling off crazy comebacks, long before the Denver era. Certainly more than Aaron Rodgers. He was insanely good, but a carbon copy of Brady? I don't think we ever saw that. Welker got a million concussions in Denver and that's a direct result of one of the main differences between the two QBs. Manning never shied away from putting his receiver's body on the line by throwing it into a place where they'll definitely get popped. The only real difference we saw in Manning when he switched teams was an adaptation to his loss of arm strength, but it's not like he wasn't playing smart football before that.

And for what small amount it's worth, no QB since Peyton Manning has made me more nervous as a fan rooting against him than Mahomes.

 

[everlong]

Only thing I take issue with is your assessment of Manning. Peyton was so much like Mahomes when he was younger as he tried to hit a home run all the time. He also choked a lot. Then he started watching Brady. And he became so much better. Pairing him with Welker made Manning a carbon copy of Brady, and Manning became a huge big game player. Capable of coming back on teams and elevating the team. I had a ton more respect for Peyton later in his career than I did earlier. He learned lessons that Andrew Luck never did.

That doesn't really work out when you look at the history overall. 2006 his one big game was aided by bad calls and the Patriots having the flu. 2015 that defense carried him. The one and done's vs SD twice and the Jets were awful. Mahomes to his point has never done that. The Baltimore one and done isn't completely his fault but that pick was killer. 2013 against the Patriots they had everything going for him. If he had choked that away it would have been another gagger. Seattle isn't all on him either. Those receivers turtled. 2014 against Indy getting smoked like that? A team the Pats put 45 on. They all have their failures but 14-13 and really your defense won you at least a third of those.

 

[upstater1]

This is not how I remember Peyton's career. He was always pulling off crazy comebacks, long before the Denver era. Certainly more than Aaron Rodgers. He was insanely good, but a carbon copy of Brady? I don't think we ever saw that. Welker got a million concussions in Denver and that's a direct result of one of the main differences between the two QBs. Manning never shied away from putting his receiver's body on the line by throwing it into a place where they'll definitely get popped. The only real difference we saw in Manning when he switched teams was an adaptation to his loss of arm strength, but it's not like he wasn't playing smart football before that.

And for what small amount it's worth, no QB since Peyton Manning has made me more nervous as a fan rooting against him than Mahomes.

I wasnt only referring to the Denver years. I was largely referring to the second half of his career.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I am so feckin glad that this smug, pompous, entitled, jumpy punk bastard didn't win another...The worship & fawning from the complicit media would've been too nauseating...He shouldn't have won last year either...

He wouldn't have gotten there this year either if the helmet to helmet had been called on the fumble through the endzone in the Bills game.
But the $450 million contract ($150 or so guaranteed) probably helps him deal with any criticism.

 

[Zarozzor]

 

[Marko]

Tampa’s defense saved their best performance for the Super Bowl. They were unbelievable, they just wouldn’t stop. But man, Tom Brady was incredible, especially in the 1st half. It was just an out and out destruction of their opponent. So pleasant to not have heart palpitations during a Brady SB.

Tampa’s defense was great against GB, too, Brady turned it over 3 times.

 

[everlong]

Tampa’s defense was great against GB, too, Brady turned it over 3 times.

I've love to know how many of Brady's picks all year he was targeting Evans. I watched nearly every Bucs snap this year and I remember one that went off of Godwin's hands, another off of Gronk's hands and I think every other one was Evans. I'm sure I'm forgetting some but all year it felt like their trying to feed him.

 

[JMC00]

Manning? Really? Nah I can't put him with Brady & Montana. Guy never even put a team on his back to win a SB. '06 he rode his defense (Manning had 3 TD and 7 INTs those playoffs) and then in '15 the Broncos defense dragged his corpse to a SB win. He also had 2 SBs in between where he up-chucked all over himself. Threw a game sealing pick against the Saints and then just got ass-blasted by the Seahawks. Also 9 one-and-done's in the playoffs. Brady still only has 3 and the 3rd one just happened last year.

I mean if you think so it's your opinion, I just can't do it. Pats beating the **** out of him in the playoffs in those early years always sticks with me because he had to go get the rules changed and then he never even really won one, just was there for the ride of a good defense and dude's lucky Bryan Stork was tipping the snap count and the Pats OL was patchworked and Ghost missed an XP or that would have been Brady getting another one.

 

[everlong]

Two storylines the media needs to give up on.

1. Brady had a pedestrian day. They were up 31-9 and basically just slowed it down just to avoid a Falconesque debacle. If KC's offense was keeping pace there's nothing that indicates Brady and the Bucs couldn't have just kept scoring and passing.

2. The calls on the Chiefs defense. They were all valid. If the 2018 AFCCG was called that way the Pats would have won by a huge margin as well. Instead KC was allow to mug the Pats all day long while on the other side they were calling everything on the Pats DBs. They hold every single play. Granted they're coached up well to keep it right on the line of what the officials will normally call but Sunday they were well over the line on all of those.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Mahomes won't reach Brady levels. Simple as that. But he can still be a top 5 QB when it's all said and done.

But for what it's worth, he took responsibility for his play. Was a good loser. Faced the music gracefully.

I don't agree with a lot of people here that Mahomes needs to win 8 championships to surpass Brady like that's the only way he can do it. And I don't agree that this Super Bowl result means the door is shut.

I've always said - and I know others here have also said - I'm open to discussing someone else being the GOAT over Brady even if that guy didn't win as many championships.

But here's what happens: Packers/Colts/Saints fans start making an argument like "If Peyton/Aaron/Luck/Brees wins 6 MVP awards and 5 Super Bowls with this inferior franchise, he'll be the GOAT!" and then use that theoretical argument to diminish Super Bowls as a team stat and not an invididual one. None of these QBs actually win anything. They fail in the biggest moments time after time. Their individual stats are boosted by high paid skill players that don't help them win.

In another thread, I just posted a ridiculous list of quarterbacks that Brady has beaten in the postseason; his career is so dominant it's really hard to find a comparison in the expansion era. Outside of Peyton Manning, he is 17-0 against other elite (or once elite) QBs: Mahomes, Rodgers, Warner, Wilson, Brees, Luck, Roethlisberger, Ryan, Rivers, McNair, Gannon, McNabb. I mean, how nuts is that? Sure, he has sometimes had the better roster. Sometimes the better coaching. Sometime more luck. But certainly not always and not to the degree that hindsight changes the narrative.

So here's my convoluted point: most accomplished, greatest, and best are one in the same. And that's what really drives me nuts about these hot takes from the media. Brady is the most accomplished because he has been the best, almost always. And if Rodgers, Brees, Manning, etc. had really been the best, they would have a lot more accomplishments. But they weren't. Not even close.

So can Mahomes reach or surpass Brady? Sure he can. It isn't about counting numbers like "how many championships and MVPs". Sure, those help as an indicator, but it's about being the best and dominating, beating all of your contemporaries for many years and being the clear cut best quarterback, and playing your best year after year through all the adversity, down years, disappointments, and capitlizing when you can, over and over.

If Mahomes can do that and be the very best quarterback in the league and adapt to all kinds of different circumstances, then fifteen years from now, maybe he doesn't have eight championships but he has a lot of them and a lot of legacy moments, then I'm sure open to discussing it. But from a Patriots/Brady fan standpoint, we've seen a lot of these beginnings before and all the hype and theoreticals and counting trophies in advance, and frankly no one at all has done anything to even put them in the same class as Brady (or a bunch of other all-time great QBs in league history.)

 

[sean10mm]

Manning? Really? Nah I can't put him with Brady & Montana. Guy never even put a team on his back to win a SB. '06 he rode his defense (Manning had 3 TD and 7 INTs those playoffs) and then in '15 the Broncos defense dragged his corpse to a SB win. He also had 2 SBs in between where he up-chucked all over himself. Threw a game sealing pick against the Saints and then just got ass-blasted by the Seahawks. Also 9 one-and-done's in the playoffs. Brady still only has 3 and the 3rd one just happened last year.

I mean if you think so it's your opinion, I just can't do it. Pats beating the **** out of him in the playoffs in those early years always sticks with me because he had to go get the rules changed and then he never even really won one, just was there for the ride of a good defense and dude's lucky Bryan Stork was tipping the snap count and the Pats OL was patchworked and Ghost missed an XP or that would have been Brady getting another one.

The year Peyton got the rules changed (2004) he threw for 49 touchdowns in the regular season... and lost 20-3 to the Pats in the playoffs anyway.

 

[sb1]

The year Peyton got the rules changed (2004) he threw for 49 touchdowns in the regular season... and lost 20-3 to the Pats in the playoffs anyway.

I really wish there was a video of the clip of Bruschi mocking the Colts after the game.

On the field he yelled to a camera "that's the best offense in the league huh?" And in the locker room went something like: "I wonder what kind of excuses they are making in that lockerroom now hahaha I wonder what rules they want changed now? Hey maybe they want a rule that they can't play when it snows! Hahaha"

 

[yukon cornelius]

Mahomes might possess the most complete physical/athletic package of any QB who has played......Marino might have been the best pure passer.......one could argue that Manning had more physical tools as a QB than Brady did or does have

Brady is the most complete package QB to play the game.......much more goes into QB than just physical skills......

 

[Steve102]

Mahomes might possess the most complete physical/athletic package of any QB who has played......Marino might have been the best pure passer.......one could argue that Manning had more physical tools as a QB than Brady did or does have

Brady is the most complete package QB to play the game.......much more goes into QB than just physical skills......

nailed it.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Mahomes might possess the most complete physical/athletic package of any QB who has played......Marino might have been the best pure passer.......one could argue that Manning had more physical tools as a QB than Brady did or does have

Brady is the most complete package QB to play the game.......much more goes into QB than just physical skills......

I don't think Mahomes is really 6'3". There are pictures next to him with his brother, who is 6'6" and there's a massive difference. There's pictures of him next to Brady, and it isn't a 1" difference. Heights are exaggerated a lot (Brees is definitely not 6' and Rodgers is definitely not 6'2").

It doesn't change that much about Mahomes physically and athletically, but it might be important as he takes more hits and needs to stay in the pocket more. If he were really 6'3" and able to elude pass rushers like that it would be beyond freakish...he would be almost the same height as Brady.

 

[Zarozzor]

I don't think Mahomes is really 6'3". There are pictures next to him with his brother, who is 6'6" and there's a massive difference. There's pictures of him next to Brady, and it isn't a 1" difference. Heights are exaggerated a lot (Brees is definitely not 6' and Rodgers is definitely not 6'2").

It doesn't change that much about Mahomes physically and athletically, but it might be important as he takes more hits and needs to stay in the pocket more. If he were really 6'3" and able to elude pass rushers like that it would be beyond freakish...he would be almost the same height as Brady.

I definitely think lots of quarterbacks add an inch or two. I’ve always thought Brees was like 5’10.5. Look at Rodgers next to 6’2 Favre. Rodgers is more like 6’0.5 or 6’1. Mahomes looks 6’1.5 or 6’2 to me.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I definitely think lots of quarterbacks add an inch or two. I’ve always thought Brees was like 5’10.5. Look at Rodgers next to 6’2 Favre. Rodgers is more like 6’0.5 or 6’1. Mahomes looks 6’1.5 or 6’2 to me.

That's about where I have them too. Rodgers might even be closer to 6'0" based on what some Packers fans have said about seeing him in person. In fact, I recall one person saying he had a little hissy fit because he heard a fan remark that he wasn't tall...lol what a douche.

But people talk a lot about the atheticism, sidearm throws, weaving and bobbing that Mahomes and Rodgers do and overlook that Brady's height provides him with a big advantage with a lot more throwing lanes. You never hear pundits talk about this when describing tHe PeFfEcT QuaRtErBaCk while acting like Brady has some big handicap...how isn't this a huge ass factor when stacking them up their physical tools and how it relates to the position?

Gotta be closer to a 6" difference...Brees might be 5'10"



2" difference? No way.



Look at their eye levels here...no way Mahomes is only 1" shorter.

 

[NormZauchin]

That's about where I have them too. Rodgers might even be closer to 6'0" based on what some Packers fans have said about seeing him in person. In fact, I recall one person saying he had a little hissy fit because he heard a fan remark that he wasn't tall...lol what a douche.

But people talk a lot about the atheticism, sidearm throws, weaving and bobbing that Mahomes and Rodgers do and overlook that Brady's height provides him with a big advantage with a lot more throwing lanes. You never hear pundits talk about this when describing tHe PeFfEcT QuaRtErBaCk while acting like Brady has some big handicap...how isn't this a huge ass factor when stacking them up their physical tools and how it relates to the position?

Gotta be closer to a 6" difference...Brees might be 5'10"

View attachment 30416

2" difference? No way.

View attachment 30421

Look at their eye levels here...no way Mahomes is only 1" shorter.

View attachment 30419

Maybe Brady is really 6' 5''.