Mac Jones working out with Nic Shimonek on his strength and conditioning

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Talk about conflict of interest.

No one expects anyone to be a savant but don't be ignorant on a subject you're trying to make a point on. Not trying to be mean, rude or w/e. We should want informed posters here.

 

[RodThePat]

Belichick didn’t put more on Jones’ plate this year unless you mean trying to make plays while his tackles refuse to block. Belichick took everything off Jones’ plate and that’s was a major issue. He took away Jones’ ability to audible. He devised an offense where he really had one or two real reads where the receiver had to be in position to get the ball at a certain time or the whole play broke down. Hell, he didn’t even allow Andrews to call blocking assignments at the line.

See if the Pats had a real OC and stuck with their offense, Belichick could have put more on Jones’ plate rather than run a simple and predictable offense that gave Jones little to no leeway to improvise.

You don't think they were pushing the ball down the field and asking him to hold it longer to start the season than they were last year? Tacit admission that ball control, don't screw up, throw it short, check down, don't force it wasn't enough. Up until the injury his average depth of target was way up there at the top of the league, then it came back down to 2021 levels.

 

[RIpats88]

I thought towards the end of the season his mid to deep ball was marketedly better than last year. The numbers reflect that since he was among the top of the league in big passing plays down the stretch. Just go look at Evan Lazar who has been saying that for months since he was tracking it.

But how can we judge anyone on the offense from last year? The Pats literally had a Pop Warner level offense (and that might be generous). Just read the Herald article. We now know they had to dumb down the offense not for Mac Jones, not for the receivers, but for the coaching staff. And even then, they had to dumb down the already dumb down offense because it was too complicated for them. And then when they started to make adjustments later in the season to fit the personnel they had, they only installed half the offense (the running game) and left the other half (the passing game) to twist in the wind.

But his mechanics were off for much of the year. I think injuries played a part. I also think the horrible coaching and abysmal o-line play played a part.

But does his physical tools need to be all that improved. Look at Joe Burrow. He doesn't have a strong arm. It isn't much stronger than Jones'. Neither are Jalen Hurts or Tua's.

Who knows what Jones will become, but you cannot draw much from his play on the field because he had the coaching staff setting him up for failure.

There's no use arguing with the "anyone but Mac" crowd. They've made up their minds for whatever reason and dont want to watch him succeed.

It's actually pretty bizarre. Now after all we know about the coaching staff it's "still Macs fault!" And now there is "no way he can improve!"

 

[Stu Pidassle]

There's no use arguing with the "anyone but Mac" crowd. They've made up their minds for whatever reason and dont want to watch him succeed.

It's actually pretty bizarre. Now after all we know about the coaching staff it's "still Macs fault!" And now there is "no way he can improve!"

It is going to be a long off season

 

[Rob0729]

I know players missed games. Guess what, **** happens, it's a hard contact sport, players get hurt on every team every season.

The players I mentioned did not regress in their ability (and in some cases in their production).

Meyers had more Y/R, more Y/G, more TDs, and a higher catch% than 2021.

Parker had more Y/R, more yards, more TDs, and a higher catch% than 2021 (in Miami).

I didn't mention Agholor. He was mostly garbage. However, he did haul in the best reception of the season (when he ripped the ball away from the DB at PIT).

Bourne got ****ed over by the coaching staff. He was the same receiver he's always been, the team just refused to play him enough. He had significantly less snaps and targets than 2021... there's no legitimate excuse for that.

Thornton was pretty useless and he won't be a factor in the league unless he bulks up significantly.

Hunter Henry had more Y/R and a higher catch% than 2021 but he wasn't getting targeted enough (whether it was a flaw of the scheme or Mac just didn't see him), especially in the red zone where he was money last season.

So two receivers had similar years as last year and two others had significantly worse years. What does that tell you? Overall, the receiving corp was less productive than last year. Maybe that is because they were forced to run crappy routes in bunches.

 

[Rob0729]

I don't think you know what you're talking about. Here are just a few stats that took a few mins to look up. I'd do that next time before posting.

Led in TD % and had one of the highest modern day %.

4th in ANY/A

3rd in QB rating

11th YA

1st QBR and TD passes.

4th AY/A

It helps the conversation when all parties are at least somewhat informed. I think posters owe it to themselves and others. Doesn't hurt to educate yourself a little Rob.

Any questions you have feel free to PM me. I'll be happy to help or just tell you I don't know the answer.

The guy who quotes his favorite draft experts completely wrong is giving me advice on doing research. Too funny.

Sorry I was on a plane to Charlotte working on my phone. Sue me for getting something wrong. What is your excuse for getting things wrong all the time?

 

[Rob0729]

You don't think they were pushing the ball down the field and asking him to hold it longer to start the season than they were last year? Tacit admission that ball control, don't screw up, throw it short, check down, don't force it wasn't enough. Up until the injury his average depth of target was way up there at the top of the league, then it came back down to 2021 levels.

That isn’t being asked to do more. That is setting him up to fail. Again, late in the season when the line played better, Jones was one of the best big play QBs in the league. If passing down the field is asking to do more, Jones was more than up for the challenge late in the year. He struggled with the short passes late in the season. That was his bread and butter last year.

 

[Real fan 02]

Gotta give to Mac. Started off training within 2 weeks of regular season. He knows he is under scanner .

I sincerely hope Mac can turn around and provide us 80% of what Joe burrow provides .

Now can we see something from Thornton maybe adding 10 more lbs of muscle in his legs.

Absolutely agree! Mac's committed and always been committed to winning and becoming the best player he can.. this is the season that will be telling.

Sure up the O line.. add a legit outside threat. love burrow but give Mac 3 legit #1 WRs he'd put up stats too.

Thornton I'm expecting big things from.. he's an absolute burner.. as you stated adding some muscle and being with a Real OC will do wonders for him.

We aren't far off from becoming a contender again!

 

[Real fan 02]

Not just here, but his chance as a legit starter anywhere.

Along with BB his head coach defacto play caller..

 

[Rob0729]

There's no use arguing with the "anyone but Mac" crowd. They've made up their minds for whatever reason and dont want to watch him succeed.

It's actually pretty bizarre. Now after all we know about the coaching staff it's "still Macs fault!" And now there is "no way he can improve!"

The Mac haters could be right about him, but it is impossible to tell based on the 2022 season. And a lot of them have rewritten history about 2021.

I have no idea what Jones’ ceiling at this point. Neither does anyone else.

 

[Real fan 02]

The Mac haters could be right about him, but it is impossible to tell based on the 2022 season. And a lot of them have rewritten history about 2021.

I have no idea what Jones’ ceiling at this point. Neither does anyone else.

Mac endured something that had never been done in the history of the modern NFL.. all the reports surfacing just all verified what we all suspected..

I'm still puzzled on why this even happened. However 2021 is the season I was sold on Mac.. as a rookie coming in to a complex offense, playing well Taking his team to the postseason.

Those are accomplishments Mac can thrive off.. I know Mac's motivated, I know he wants retribution. He wasn't drafted on having a Cannon like Allen, he wasn't given 3# 1 WRs like burrow, he's not Those guys. He's Mac Jones he's a SMART, accurate, instinctive, driven guy he just has to be the best version of himself.

 

[venecol]

The Mac haters could be right about him, but it is impossible to tell based on the 2022 season. And a lot of them have rewritten history about 2021.

I have no idea what Jones’ ceiling at this point. Neither does anyone else.

There's a reason the other 4 teams that picked QBs ahead of the Pats passed on Mac. Mac was known as the most NFL QB-ready in the draft because of his smarts but was also the one with the most physical limitations. I guess in a system like the Pats run, he was probably the right choice. Others maybe felt that you can coach up QBs to be smart but you can't make them be more athletic. Idk.

It's doubtful that even a throwing guru like House can improve ball velocity of a player by more than say 5%, maybe he can squeeze 8%? Is that enough? Maybe but you can't say with any level of confidence that Mac can make all the throws. He can't. On the scrambling/running end of athleticism, he is far behind the other 4. Wilson appears to be in the category of being incredibly athletic but not capable of improving his QB IQ. Lawrence is good to go imo. Fields looks like he'll be OK. Lance is a complete unknown but should be fine in the 49ers system after watching Purdy.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Billy O uses Mac's talents to the greatest extent possible. We will definitely know what we have after this season. I just hope Sunshine & Teapot can get along.

 

[RIpats88]

So two receivers had similar years as last year and two others had significantly worse years. What does that tell you? Overall, the receiving corp was less productive than last year. Maybe that is because they were forced to run crappy routes in bunches.

How can anyone with a straight face say the route running and pass concepts were fine at this point?

The mental gymnastics people are going through to keep alive the narrative it was all Macs fault alive is just comical.

 

[varjao]

The Pats won't get him a #1 WR superstar, you know that

And Thorntons genetic won't allow him to get significant mass unless he makes use of anabolic steroids.

 

[RIpats88]

The Pats won't get him a #1 WR superstar, you know that

And Thorntons genetic won't allow him to get significant mass unless he makes use of anabolic steroids.

Bill needs to change that mindset though. A true #1 target is probably most important these days. All top playoff teams had one

 

[Tunescribe]

There's no use arguing with the "anyone but Mac" crowd. They've made up their minds for whatever reason and dont want to watch him succeed.

It's actually pretty bizarre. Now after all we know about the coaching staff it's "still Macs fault!" And now there is "no way he can improve!"

I continue to be gobsmacked by this. It makes no sense on a dedicated fan site where it normally is assumed people are invested in wanting to see the team and its players succeed collectively as well as individually. Yet, we have people making declarations a la "Mac Jones is not my quarterback!" and investing time daily trashing the kid way, way, WAY beyond due criticism. It's downright weird, driven in part by not knowing what to look for assessing QB play.

There's a reason the other 4 teams that picked QBs ahead of the Pats passed on Mac. Mac was known as the most NFL QB-ready in the draft because of his smarts but was also the one with the most physical limitations. I guess in a system like the Pats run, he was probably the right choice. Others maybe felt that you can coach up QBs to be smart but you can't make them be more athletic. Idk.

It's doubtful that even a throwing guru like House can improve ball velocity of a player by more than say 5%, maybe he can squeeze 8%? Is that enough? Maybe but you can't say with any level of confidence that Mac can make all the throws. He can't.

This is just ridiculous. He can, he has and he does make "all the throws." He just doesn't throw them as hard and fast as Josh Allen. And guess what? After Buffalo's playoff loss to Cincy, fans were piling on Allen saying his mechanics sucked and he couldn't "make all the throws." Don't look now but Mac Jones' career completion percentage is 4 points higher than Allen's.

 

[Rob0729]

There's a reason the other 4 teams that picked QBs ahead of the Pats passed on Mac. Mac was known as the most NFL QB-ready in the draft because of his smarts but was also the one with the most physical limitations. I guess in a system like the Pats run, he was probably the right choice. Others maybe felt that you can coach up QBs to be smart but you can't make them be more athletic. Idk.

It's doubtful that even a throwing guru like House can improve ball velocity of a player by more than say 5%, maybe he can squeeze 8%? Is that enough? Maybe but you can't say with any level of confidence that Mac can make all the throws. He can't. On the scrambling/running end of athleticism, he is far behind the other 4. Wilson appears to be in the category of being incredibly athletic but not capable of improving his QB IQ. Lawrence is good to go imo. Fields looks like he'll be OK. Lance is a complete unknown but should be fine in the 49ers system after watching Purdy.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Billy O uses Mac's talents to the greatest extent possible. We will definitely know what we have after this season. I just hope Sunshine & Teapot can get along.

You know why Jones was fifth. He is a pure pocket passer in a league where most teams don’t want a pure pocket passer anymore. If this was 2010, he might have gone with the second pick. Everyone is looking for the next Allen or Mahomes, not Brady.

But just because teams chose athleticism over smarts doesn’t mean Jones cannot become a very good QB in this league.

And most pocket passing QBs can’t make all the throws on the run. Not even Brady. Pocket passers work for the pocket. Jones was good at that in college and his rookie season.

 

[venecol]

This is just ridiculous. He can, he has and he does make "all the throws." He just doesn't throw them as hard and fast as Josh Allen. And guess what? After Buffalo's playoff loss to Cincy, fans were piling on Allen saying his mechanics sucked and he couldn't "make all the throws." Don't look now but Mac Jones' career completion percentage is 4 points higher than Allen's.

He can't make all the throws w/ consistent success. Is that better? Throws like: across the grain, from the far hash mark to outside the #s, on the run, etc. He attempts those throws, so theoretically he can make the throw but they don't have the zip or accuracy required to be successful. He floats them. They get picked or are over/under thrown. He's limited. Maybe it's his mechanics. Maybe it's his arm strength. Idk but he definitely can't make all the throws. He's not Rodgers or Mahomes, two guys that can make all the throws.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Get stronger Mac, prepare to fight for your job in training camp next season! We'll see if you've got what it takes to up your game to the next level cos this year was a huge step BACK!

 

[Triumph]

His arm is strong enough... i don't really like Mac as a person but whilst he definitely doesn't have a cannon he can play.

Does the best qb always win the game? `Sure if you have Skylar Thompson you might struggle but the eagles won with Wentz and Foles. The 49ers went a long way with Purdey.

If Corky has the arm then why all the rainbows with hang time?

The gunslingers throw lasers on a rope.