Mac Jones working out with Nic Shimonek on his strength and conditioning

[40yrpatsfan]

I think his bigger issue is his inability to extend plays. Brady had the same issue and did boxing training to improve his short area mobility, Jones needs to be doing the same. If he continues to go down every time the pocket starts to break down he isn’t going to make it.

He was showing better mobility prior to his ankle injury. In the Baltimore game he made several almost astonishing moves. I think the ankle, the spotty play of the OL, and the play calling all contributed to him becoming hesitant. He's got the physical traits and speed to do better extending plays, but he needs to step up in the pocket earlier and stronger. Zappe's best trait this year was that ability to find the opening and step up where he could see the field a lot better.

 

[Ollie]

Belichick oversaw all the playcalling.

Thats why he put Patricia as OC because anyone can follow his directions. I got news for you too. Bill Obrien is not going to magically transform Corky Mac into an elite QB. If BOB had that gift, he would not be looking for a new job every 2 years and he could name his price and get it.

NO but he might transform him into a good one and if we had that this year with BOB i think you can add two more wins at least which gets you at worst 10-7

 

[RodThePat]

Last year was a free pass for Jones. No QB could have done well in the Patriots offense last year.

Do you think he showed any demonstrably better physical tools than he did in 2021? Because I didn't. We're not talking results here, just arm strength, short area quickness, throwing on the run... was any of that meaningfully better?

 

[Triumph]

NO but he might transform him into a good one and if we had that this year with BOB i think you can add two more wins at least which gets you at worst 10-7

How do you transform a QB with questionable arm strength?

10 wins, making the post season only to lose to the best QBs is what the old Bengals were made of.

 

[Triumph]

Do you think he showed any demonstrably better physical tools than he did in 2021? Because I didn't. We're not talking results here, just arm strength, short area quickness, throwing on the run... was any of that meaningfully better?

If you cannot strike fear with your deep ball then you're screwed as a NFL QB.

Mahomes passes take no time to reach their target because throwing Darts is how you beat NFL defenses. The Rainbow pass works in college.

 

[RodThePat]

If you cannot strike fear with your deep ball then you're screwed as a NFL QB.

Mahomes passes take no time to reach their target because throwing Darts is how you beat NFL defenses. The Rainbow pass works in college.

I'm a little busy with work to look for it now, so maybe I'll come back and edit this later and provide a link, but I read a study done last year or the year before that showed how, when trailing, QBs that have a high percentage of comeback wins, such as Brady, Manning and Mahomes, change their profile of passing and start attacking the intermediate/deep part of the middle of the field much more aggressively, because generally that's where you'll get chunk yardage out of a bigger variety of concepts (assuming teams are protecting the deep sideline shots with a lead). It just happens that the intermediate/deep middle is where you need the arm strength to fit balls into tight windows, and I do fear Mac's lack of comeback ability might be a function of that. He throws beautiful touch sideline fades, but those work when defenses are playing up and leave guys in man coverage. If you're down in the second half, no one will give you that throw as a freebie.

 

[Brotherblues]

I'm a little busy with work to look for it now, so maybe I'll come back and edit this later and provide a link, but I read a study done last year or the year before that showed how, when trailing, QBs that have a high percentage of comeback wins, such as Brady, Manning and Mahomes, change their profile of passing and start attacking the intermediate/deep part of the middle of the field much more aggressively, because generally that's where you'll get chunk yardage out of a bigger variety of concepts (assuming teams are protecting the deep sideline shots with a lead). It just happens that the intermediate/deep middle is where you need the arm strength to fit balls into tight windows, and I do fear Mac's lack of comeback ability might be a function of that. He throws beautiful touch sideline fades, but those work when defenses are playing up and leave guys in man coverage. If you're down in the second half, no one will give you that throw as a freebie.

Middle of the field doesn't hurt weaker armed QBs. It helps them. Less trajectory.

 

[203Pat]

Middle of the field doesn't hurt weaker armed QBs. It helps them. Less trajectory.

Which is what drive me nuts about Mac. He has a weak arm but the seam routes are a major issue for him.

 

[Brotherblues]

Which is what drive me nuts about Mac. He has a weak arm but the seam routes are a major issue for him.

We'll see how it goes with actual professional play design and coaching of said plays. I'm hopeful.

 

[PatsFan2]

Which is what drive me nuts about Mac. He has a weak arm but the seam routes are a major issue for him.

Maybe it was Patricia and Judges schemes you can't tell me Jonnu or Henry couldn't beat a LB or Safety down the seams from time to time. Well at least we have a real OC now: Mac or the us Fans can't blame the OC this time around. Never been this excited before for upcoming Pre-Season.

 

[203Pat]

We'll see how it goes with actual professional play design and coaching of said plays. I'm hopeful.

He looked terrible with seam routes his rookie year with Josh and two highly paid tight ends. Maybe it is something he can develop but Gronk made a few all pro teams largely because of that route and now it seems to have vanished.

 

[PatsFan2]

We'll see how it goes with actual professional play design and coaching of said plays. I'm hopeful.

Intrigued.

 

[PatsFan2]

He looked terrible with seam routes his rookie year with Josh and two highly paid tight ends. Maybe it is something he can develop but Gronk made a few all pro teams largely because of that route and now it seems to have vanished.

Wow! interesting if he has issues with that it might explain why Jonnu Smith has been invisible or struggles in our Offense even with McDaniels. Brady and other QB's throw those beautifully If Mac has problems because of hanging them up two high it could lead to two things either a pick or hospital ball. I Hope he learns to throw those on a line and not like a helium balloon.

 

[Rob0729]

Do you think he showed any demonstrably better physical tools than he did in 2021? Because I didn't. We're not talking results here, just arm strength, short area quickness, throwing on the run... was any of that meaningfully better?

I thought towards the end of the season his mid to deep ball was marketedly better than last year. The numbers reflect that since he was among the top of the league in big passing plays down the stretch. Just go look at Evan Lazar who has been saying that for months since he was tracking it.

But how can we judge anyone on the offense from last year? The Pats literally had a Pop Warner level offense (and that might be generous). Just read the Herald article. We now know they had to dumb down the offense not for Mac Jones, not for the receivers, but for the coaching staff. And even then, they had to dumb down the already dumb down offense because it was too complicated for them. And then when they started to make adjustments later in the season to fit the personnel they had, they only installed half the offense (the running game) and left the other half (the passing game) to twist in the wind.

But his mechanics were off for much of the year. I think injuries played a part. I also think the horrible coaching and abysmal o-line play played a part.

But does his physical tools need to be all that improved. Look at Joe Burrow. He doesn't have a strong arm. It isn't much stronger than Jones'. Neither are Jalen Hurts or Tua's.

Who knows what Jones will become, but you cannot draw much from his play on the field because he had the coaching staff setting him up for failure.

 

[Toofy]

If i recall Mac was decent against the blittz in his first year and one of the worst in his second. Whilst he isn't absolvable of blame a player in a bad spot behind a bad line with bad coaching in only his second year is likely that his fundamentals like mechanics etc will diminish as he gets sped up. Sure it shouldn't happen but players aren't robots. Brady looked poor in 2019 and a shadow of himself in a poor offense but with decent coaching. The next year in Tampa he looked great. Context is important and it's not being an apologist. Very few qbs will play in a situation that was as bad as last year.

Great sumamrization. Mac was put in the worst position to succeed with shaky offensive line , zero coaching on offense rather negative coaching where our tight ends collide into each other and concussion each other out.

Mac does not get a free pass but let's be honest , would mahomes in his second year be able to thrive in 2022 pats offense . Probably not.


The good thing is the only way for Mac is now UP and with good coaching and good offensive line we might be able to know what his ceiling is and probably the strength training and 1 year of just seeing issues on offense has got him battle hardened. It wouldn't get worse than this.

I hope we are able to retain Meyers at 12-13 aav.

 

[Triumph]

I'm a little busy with work to look for it now, so maybe I'll come back and edit this later and provide a link, but I read a study done last year or the year before that showed how, when trailing, QBs that have a high percentage of comeback wins, such as Brady, Manning and Mahomes, change their profile of passing and start attacking the intermediate/deep part of the middle of the field much more aggressively, because generally that's where you'll get chunk yardage out of a bigger variety of concepts (assuming teams are protecting the deep sideline shots with a lead). It just happens that the intermediate/deep middle is where you need the arm strength to fit balls into tight windows, and I do fear Mac's lack of comeback ability might be a function of that. He throws beautiful touch sideline fades, but those work when defenses are playing up and leave guys in man coverage. If you're down in the second half, no one will give you that throw as a freebie.

Those deep chunk plays turn the tide of a game.

Its the same old axiom that BB defenses lived by to win multiple Super Bowls. You don't give up the big plays and force the opposing offense into long multi play drives where the chances of a mistake are greater.

 

[Tunescribe]

He has a weak arm but the seam routes are a major issue for him.

Neither is true. He has average arm strength for an NFL quarterback and seam routes are no more an issue for him than any other route. Mac's throwing strengths are accuracy and touch. Try to be objective, just because he doesn't have a Josh Allen cannon for a right arm doesn't mean it's "weak" or he can't make all the throws.

 

[Vindicate]

When you're throwing what looks like high arcs, what does that typically signal as far as bad mechanics go? Is it a result of compensating for arm strength and having to rely on a higher arc?

 

[BB8XSBW]

Last year showed why this guy is the GOAT. Literally no QB in the history of this league could have been 1 game away from the postseason with two imbeciles who know absolutely nothing about offense coaching him.

By the way, this strength and conditioning won't just help his football career. It will help him absolutely pulverize this hot piece of ass:

 

[venecol]

QBs that have a high percentage of comeback wins, such as Brady, Manning and Mahomes, change their profile of passing and start attacking the intermediate/deep part of the middle of the field much more aggressively, because generally that's where you'll get chunk yardage out of a bigger variety of concepts (assuming teams are protecting the deep sideline shots with a lead). It just happens that the intermediate/deep middle is where you need the arm strength to fit balls into tight windows, and I do fear Mac's lack of comeback ability might be a function of that. He throws beautiful touch sideline fades, but those work when defenses are playing up and leave guys in man coverage. If you're down in the second half, no one will give you that throw as a freebie.

Actually, teams were flooding the MOF and daring Mac to beat them w/ throws outside the numbers. That was the strategy of several teams and they announced it. They weren't concerned w/ his outside throws which require more velocity. Most of his 1-on-1 INTs were in that area.