Mac: "I want to be coached harder"

[SVN]

If you go back and watch the first few games of last season, the “fearlessness” was there. Mac often stood in until the last minute and took some decent shots but delivered the football. But that changed, I’d say probably somewhere around the Dallas game or somewhere near there (obviously, he took a massive shot in that one) where he looked like he lost a bit of velocity on his throws, which makes me think he was dealing with an injury of some sort.

He may have been told to do that less and be smarter about that, I have no idea. But the short slides and not throwing his body around like he did last year feels like some of that was coached out of him for the sake of his own durability. I mean, he’s only 217-pounds and 6-3, he’s not a big guy, so I get it. But he definitely started out playing that way. However, it feels like he made a conscious decision not to continue doing so.

There is a big difference in how plays are being called before and after the baltimore. They are just telling him to protect the ball at any costs in the process of completely tying him up low risk low reward type plays.

 

[captain stone]

It was gutless. It disgusted me in real time to see it.

Yep, all the more disgusting because this wasn't the first time he's pulled that gutless ****ing sh!t this season... Nor the second time either.

NewTonyEason's becoming just like his namesake.

 

[TheRainMaker]

It was gutless. It disgusted me in real time to see it.

This is something we are just not used to seeing from the QB.

 

[venecol]

Further confirmation of poor play design and a poorly coached quarterback. By saying he wants to be coached "harder,"what Mac's really trying to say is he wants to be coached BETTER. Everything Warner points out can be rectified by an OC and a QB coach who know what the hell they're doing. No way should BB be allowed to bring Patricia and Judge back next year in their current roles. This season has been wasted by those two schmucks and by BB for not making needed changes when things first went haywire.

Don't disagree but you completely ignored all the pre- and post-read mistakes he points out that Mac is making. Mac is not playing well regardless of the play calls, which Warner didn't seem to have an issue with aside from the details.

 

[Vindicate]

I must have brought this up 100 times during that draft.

The biggest difference makers in college football are OL and Kickers. That's where you see the biggest gaps in talent between teams. QB are the most important position but the drop off isn't nearly as big as it is with those other positions.

His OL helped him out and made him look better than guys like Waddle, Smith and Jeudy. That corp is great but his OL was absolutely dominant. You could count on one hand how many times they broke down that year.

That's the biggest issue we're seeing . Mac needs top tier protection > top tier targets. Although we need to upgrade there as well. Mac just isn't equipped to deal with messy pockets.

Like I said last week, we've seen "simple" schemes be very successful in this league for decades. You don't need to be a mad genius designing plays. That would help but again guys like Kubiak, Shanahan called like 10 plays their entire career. I mean we've seen straight running offenses have major success like Tennessee, Balty and others. You don't need Gruden or Payton calling plays. You'll never win with a guy like Mac with sub-par protection. Not happening.



Fix the OL is priority #1 imo. Doesn't matter if Sean Payton was calling plays this year. That OL has to be fixed. I'm definitely not MP fan and wouldn't mind a serious, established OC at all but the OL is fix #1.

Offensive line play has been ugly the past two season from a lot of teams. High sack numbers, no time to throw.

There's a reason '07s offense was so potent. The offensive line play was absolutely absurd that year. Vrabel was out of his mind. Brady had so much protection alongside a stupid receiving core. We saw what happened when the line didn't play well...

Kudos to Burrow for gutting it out. He got slaughtered, taken out for a season, and is back with full confidence.

 

[captain stone]

Fellow Navy vet? I had to go through millington before i headed to GTMO after 9/11

Marine Corps Air Wing, assigned to MCAS Beaufort SC after I finished my avionics & NCO schools there...

Good times, good times... Swing Wit Da Wing, Bruddahs!

 

[Real fan 02]

2015 sticks out to me as the worst because Bill did multiple things that year that basically cost us wins and the AFCCG at home instead of Denver. The mortar kick for no reason when we were up big against Philly that seemed to spark a comeback. Harper out in the snow in Mile High for the second punt return of his career. Running Steven Jackson against Miami at the end of the year to send some stupid message to god knows who and losing home field advantage. Then not figuring out how to fix Stork allegedly tipping the snap count at Mile High in the AFCCG allowing the Broncos D to tee off on Brady.







When I heard Mills was going to be out and people were saying "no big loss there" my first reaction was "have you seen Bryant play?"















It was uglywe and expected.



Well not having that lock down corner really reared it's ugly head past few games.. Diggs was just toying with any corner that was on him



Jones the rookie will be good , and he's getting invaluable experience at corner.. myles Bryant keeps finding his way on the field.. some how Sean wade a 6"2 rangy sauce gardeners type corner can never see the field.. another mystery.

 

[captain stone]

I wonder if this will be a 94-95 redux.

10-6
5-11

....and Tuna can't pick the groceries in 96

Will Bob let Bill pick the groceries in 2023?

This is the meeting that MUST be held before Senior Bowl week:

Bob, Jonathan & Bill...

Bob says to Bill, "I'm stepping-away from the day-to-day side of the organization to devote the rest of my life to my charities and to my MILFy-delish new wifey... From now on you'll be answering to Jonathan... Son?"

Jonathan: "Coach, we're giving Eliot Wolf the title of General Manager, with the Final Word on ALL draft picks made from this point forward... He now has Complete Control of ALL aspects of Both the pro & amateur scouting departments, including adding as many scouts as he sees fit to do... Steve Cargile has been promoted to Scouting Director, on equal standing with Al Groh's kid the Pro Personnel Director, both of whom will now answer DIRECTLY to Eliot... I myself will now Personally approve of Any proposed free agent signing exceeding a pre-described amount...

"Now regarding your staff, coach... You WILL hire an Offensive Co-Ordinator from OUTSIDE this building; you WILL hire a QBs coach from OUTSIDE this building if Axel insists on attempting to continue his playing career; you WILL hire an Offensive Line coach from OUTSIDE this building while Yates continues as his assistant; you WILL hire a RBs coach from OUTSIDE this building who was an actual, like, you know, RUNNING BACK!; you WILL hire a Defensive Line coach from OUTSIDE this building while Covington continues as his assistant; and you WILL hire a Cornerbacks coach who was an actual - you guessed it - CORNERBACK!

"You may keep your Slappies on the payroll if you so choose; after all, there's no salary cap on non-player budgets even while you were acting as if there were... for everyone but YOU, of course... Have a nice day!"

 

[Tunescribe]

Don't disagree but you completely ignored all the pre- and post-read mistakes he points out that Mac is making. Mac is not playing well regardless of the play calls, which Warner didn't seem to have an issue with aside from the details.

Durp, durpity durp ... I did not "completely ignore" anything, nor did I blame everything on the play "calls" (I will assume you actually mean scheme and play design).

What are the "details" Warner refers to? A fact that can't be overemphasized: details mean EVERYTHING at the pro level. Here they mean the finer points of timing and complementary route spacing (play design elements), receiver sight adjustments, QB pre- and post-snap reads and fundamentals problems involving BOTH the receivers and quarterback. This is a perfect storm of suckage caused by poor coaching and fixable by GOOD coaching. It's a matter of COORDINATION for which the OC primarily is responsible.

ANY quarterback acclimating to a new system (especially a young one still learning the NFL), dealing with a nagging injury and forced to continually navigate shaky OL play is bound to lapse into bad habits extending to mechanics/fundamentals. Who fixes that? THE QUARTERBACKS COACH. And instead of a QB coach with experience we get renowned QB destroyer Joe "I Dunno" Judge. Hence, Mac's public cry for help. On top of it there is no dedicated/experienced OL coach, period. This is mind boggling.

It's well established you hate Mac and want Bailey Zappe to be the starting quarterback. But analyses like Warner's point to generally systemic problems with the offense a quarterback switch won't address for long, if at all. Yeah, the quarterback can make poor pre/post-snap reads but making the correct reads also go for naught when receivers aren't on the same page. Has Mac struggled and regressed this season? Absolutely. Only fools won't examine why and hold him primarily responsible -- especially after he performed at a superior level his rookie season. The most important question to ask is what has changed between then (a top-10 offense) and now.

This is not excuse-making for Mac or an argument to absolve him of culpability re. poor play. He has admitted his mistakes. But the elephant in the room precipitating this fiasco a/k/a the 2022 Patriots offense is one Matt Patricia, no pun intended.

 

[Newton England]

Cam in '20 ... 15 starts, 21 TD, 10 INT

Mac Jones career ... 26 starts, 30 TD, 20 INT

So with a completely renovated offense, eleven more games, Mac & Cheese has accumulated single digit more TD than Cam

 

[PatsFan2]

Mac needs to be Bench!

 

[PatsFan2]

Cam in '20 ... 15 starts, 21 TD, 10 INT

Mac Jones career ... 26 starts, 30 TD, 20 INT

So with a completely renovated offense, eleven more games, Mac & Cheese has accumulated single digit more TD than Cam

Cam in '20 ... 15 starts, 21 TD, 10 INT

Mac Jones career ... 26 starts, 30 TD, 20 INT

So with a completely renovated offense, eleven more games, Mac & Cheese has accumulated single digit more TD than Cam

Sell now there is no upward trend here.

 

[PatsFan2]

Durp, durpity durp ... I did not "completely ignore" anything, nor did I blame everything on the play "calls" (I will assume you actually mean play design).

What are the "details" Warner refers to? A fact that can't be overemphasized: details mean EVERYTHING at the pro level. Here they mean the finer points of timing and complementary route spacing (play design elements), receiver sight adjustments, QB pre- and post-snap reads and fundamentals problems involving BOTH the receivers and quarterback. This is a perfect storm of suckage caused by poor coaching and fixable by GOOD coaching. It's a matter of COORDINATION for which the OC primarily is responsible.

ANY quarterback acclimating to a new system (especially a young one still learning the NFL), dealing with a nagging injury and forced to continually navigate shaky OL play is bound to lapse into bad habits extending to mechanics/fundamentals. Who fixes that? THE QUARTERBACKS COACH. And instead of a QB coach with experience we get renowned QB destroyer Joe "I Dunno" Judge. Hence, Mac's public cry for help. On top of it there is no dedicated OL coach, period. This is mind boggling.

It's well established you hate Mac and want Bailey Zappe to be the starting quarterback. But analyses like these point to generally systemic problems with the offense a quarterback switch won't address for long, if at all. Yeah, the quarterback can make poor pre-snap reads but making the correct reads also go for naught when receivers aren't on the same page. Has Mac struggled and regressed this season? Absolutely. Only idiots won't examine why and hold him primarily responsible -- especially after he performed at a superior level his rookie season. The most important question to ask is what has changed from then 'til now.

Good players can overcome bad coaching what does that tell you?? You could have saved the key strokes. Zappe has played better nuff said!

 

[Tunescribe]

Good players can overcome bad coaching what does that tell you?? You could have saved the key strokes. Zappe has played better nuff said!

So if he is the better quarterback, what is your explanation for why Zappe isn't playing?

 

[BennyBledsoe]

We have already seen what happens when a QB gets constantly jerked around with poor coaching or poor talent around them. Being drafted #1 overall meant Bledsoe was on a bad team. He constantly played like he had to win the game on his own, which, for a large part of his career, was probably true.

Hence you got throws off the back foot, low percentage throws, throws made while flustered...

 

[Rob0729]

I said he was coached up on how to approach the media. We know BB and the Patriots do this. That is why his postgame presser came off as more diplomatic and different. The raw emotion in yelling at Patricia and, now, this quote, show that he blames the coaching first for his troubles and himself second. That’s not a leader. Even if you believe that, even if it’s true, you shut your mouth about it to the media and say it one on one.

So are you saying Brady is a bad leader. Brady got into a shouting match with Bill O’Brien on the sidelines and he and McDaniels falling out towards the end of his time here was well known.

As for this quote, it was taken completely out of context. In fact his sentence right before “I want to be coached harder” was “It all starts with me”. He said the coaches put him in a position to win. He was taking accountability with this quote. Here is the full quote and not cherry picked sentences.



This whole thread about a quote by Jones taken completely out of context is much ado about nothing.

Now that you see that this quote is the exact opposite that you claim Jones was saying, do you have a different view?

 

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

It can be simultaneously true that MAC is an average QB at best AND he has been done wrong by BB and Patricia and Judge. Even with the best possible coaching he is not a top tier QB.
Blow it up. Get what you can for him and go after Lamar or Jimmy.
Sign Frank Reich as OC...and if Bill retires go after Kellen Moore.

 

[Rob0729]

So we have 12 pages of people slamming Jones for blaming the coaching staff and deflecting blame away from himself when, in fact, Jones took full accountability and claimed the coaches put him in the best position to win.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

It can be simultaneously true that MAC is an average QB at best AND he has been done wrong by BB and Patricia and Judge. Even with the best possible coaching he is not a top tier QB.
Blow it up. Get what you can for him and go after Lamar or Jimmy.

We won't know that until we get competent coaching, he showed flashes last year, if Josh was here this year maybe we would see improvement. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Any QB would probably have trouble in this offense as constructed.

 

[WhatJustHappened]

What did he do at the end of last year when he Had "Competent" coaching?
The same coach that Derek Carr has now?