Lombardi's take on the Moss trade

[MoLewisrocks]

Very interesting since he was a factor in Belichick deciding to take Moss on back in 2007 and he was here the beginning of this week. He articulated something I've been thinking for some time. Moss was never really able to run all the routes available to most #1WR's and that limited our playbook which will now expand. Used to be every WR here was expected to be capable of running any route in the book...Moss was, for all his talents, a somewhat limiting force in this offense in that respect.

He has a snipet of his sit down interview with Bill that will air Sunday AM.

NFL.com news: Patriots, Vikings take smart business approach to Moss deal

 

[SuperPatsFan]

Oh, come on.

That's just the standard BB snow job.

You'd think his buddy Lombardi might be able to get a little more out of him.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Very interesting since he was a factor in Belichick deciding to take Moss on back in 2007 and he was here the beginning of this week. He articulated something I've been thinking for some time. Moss was never really able to run all the routes available to most #1WR's and that limited our playbook which will now expand. Used to be every WR here was expected to be capable of running any route in the book...Moss was, for all his talents, a somewhat limiting force in this offense in that respect.

He has a snipet of his sit down interview with Bill that will air Sunday AM.

NFL.com news: Patriots, Vikings take smart business approach to Moss deal

Makes a lot of sense ... this goes along with the predictability of the offense which was criticized here. So now they are trying to open up the playbook and they still get criticized .... go figure.

When Lombardi interviews Bill it is always a great listen.

 

[1stDownFool]

I thought Moss was "The Smartest Receiver/Player he's ever coached", now he couldn't run all the routes?
I smell something bad.

 

[Tunescribe]

Thanks for linking this, Mo. It is a MUST read.

 

[Tunescribe]

I thought Moss was "The Smartest Receiver/Player he's ever coached", now he couldn't run all the routes?
I smell something bad.

Being smart likely had nothing to do with it. Moss might not have been physically suited for certain routes, or willing enough to run them.

 

[roguepatriot]

Thanks for the link and post Mo. Thats probably as much as we get from Bill on this one, certainly a lot more than the press conference ( even if some think its a snow job; you should be used to Belichick after all these years). To read imbetween the lines from the interview, this backs up my other post; there were a number of reasons for the trade but primarily Randy no longer fit this young team and Bill believes this will let the team grow. Moss's recent behaviour and declining skills compared to 2007 don't help, but the reality is neither of these are completely unexpected and others prima-donnas have done a lot worse and then been coddled. This was also not a knee-jerk reaction to something Monday night. With us facing the Vikings, Bill is saying nothing negative about Randy to give them any poster board material.

I think the timing on this, which is what I find the oddest ( especially as it minimises value), says more about what Bill thinks of the young new skill players on the offense as anything else. My bet is this is how the coaches will spin this to the players over the next week. To me, he must really believe this strongly, as like benching two veteran QBS who were fan favorites as he has in the past, most of us find this move still hard to understand.

The Ravens will be a big test, but my bet is that Bill the mad scientist-coach is going to give them something they were not expecting. Hopefully it will be enough for a win.

 

[Deus Irae]

Moss has been running short routes, including slants, so I don't think Lombardi did his homework on this one.

 

[Tunescribe]

Moss has been running short routes, including slants.

Not much, and certainly not with much aggressiveness since 2007. I believe Lombardi has an excellent point that we all know BB would never elucidate. Lombardi is a football guy and a damn smart one, so don't put it past him to make that observation. It also would not surprise me that he's tactfully outlining what BB told him off the record.

 

[1stDownFool]

Being smart likely had nothing to do with it. Moss might not have been physically suited for certain routes, or willing enough to run them.

I'm not buying it, I saw him across the middle and slants, of course not very often but usually when the team was in trouble.
I smell bad fish, and I was never a big Moss Fan.

 

[Raymond]

Cripes people. Moss has run many routes. Certainly enough to rack up 50 td's in 52 games. The simple fact is, now, he no longer wants to do it without a long term contract.

 

[Trocadile]

I think how Lombardi characterizes the decision is consistent with the way that both Moss and BB have (in their vague ways) talked about it. They have hinted that the decision was mutual and grew out of conversations they had, not related to discipline or Moss' contract - which suggested to me that BB was telling Moss that his place in the offense would have to shrink if he stayed, and he would become, in Lombardi's words, "a specific play runner." Moss predictably preferred being traded to that scenario (coupled, presumably, with his dissatifaction over his contract), and BB agreed, given his changed vision for the offense.

 

[apple strudel]

Lombardi was pretty even handed here, but I have to disagree with the sustainable versus situational take. Good organizations do both and it is not as black and white as Lombardi makes it sound. Still, he is one of the best NFL writers out there. This article is like reading a business school textbook (it's a compliment compared with a lot of texts out there, but once you get into a really interesting field, not so much).

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Moss has been running short routes, including slants, so I don't think Lombardi did his homework on this one.

He's run some, of necessity after '07 but with less success of late. He's never been real willing to go across the middle and when he gets hit he likes it even less. He's a long strider, not a quick twitch guy. He doesn't make coverge miss on double moves, he either beats them or he tries to snooker them. But increasingly he's fooling less of them and his own QB more. I remember when he first got here and he and Brady took a couple of games to get their timing in sink even when he was open. He was coming off the field after a jump ball TD in the EZ and Bill was wacking him off the helmut saying that's what I mean, go get the ball at it's highest point. His jumping ability has diminished substantially over the last couple of seasons. He still has straight line speed. Although he struggles to get off the jam. The hands are still there but inconsistent I think due to lack of consistent focus. He was never a great route runner, but he was so gifted no one ever demanded that of him, either. I know he tried to do more here than he ever had. They asked him to do that in part to keep him involved. But he didn't always enjoy it and he wasn't always very effective (including as a blocker).

I distinctly recall the look Bill gave him coming off the field in that Panthers game last fall after having one ball picked and letting the next go through his hands. In fact I saw a still of that in my internet travels this week. It was classic wtf is up with him glare... I know everyone publicly defended him against his critics then, too... There was never really any other option because of his sensitive psyche. He didn't take individual performance criticism constructively.

He was traded because he was yielding diminishing returns. Bill's drafting this year reflected his intention to move on. He had to wait and see if the additions would pan out and Welker would make it back and if the reconfigured OL could withstand the potential loss of Mankins and then Kaczur. Had that not all come together or had he been willing to accept the fact that he wasn't in the future plans and just play out the last season of his deal, he'd still be here as a decoy seeing more limited duty. But he made it pretty obvious from week 1 on (and probably earlier) that he wasn't going to just go along quietly for the greater good. His goals and the teams were at cross purposes. That - as well as some of the oddball behavior - made the trade a no brainer, because the alternative was likely going to be rougher...along the lines of what Bruschi predicted.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Lombardi was pretty even handed here, but I have to disagree with the sustainable versus situational take. Good organizations do both and it is not as black and white as Lombardi makes it sound. Still, he is one of the best NFL writers out there. This article is like reading a business school textbook (it's a compliment compared with a lot of texts out there, but once you get into a really interesting field, not so much).

He's dead on. He was with Bill in Cleveland and while Bill couldn't do what he wanted there those who surrounded him learned what that entailed. Bill is always well aware of situations, and if the don't adversely impact sustainability he does what he can. But I recall reading in Patriot Reign that he and Pioli were committed to building something here that would endure long past their departure. Installing a system first and foremost that would remain in place long after they departed because it could, because it was fundamentally sound. That was what Kraft traded that first for. That he trusted Keaft embraced it was why Bill had the courage of his convictions to scrawl that resignation on that ****tail napkin... Most head coaches and GM's don't give a **** what happens once they depart. In fact most at least secretly revel to some extent in the failure of those who come after them...Oddly Bill spent a long time working for one of those guys...

 

[apple strudel]

Bill is always well aware of situations, and if the don't adversely impact sustainability he does what he can.

That was exactly my point. Maybe I did not explain it well, but it is never as black and white as Lombardi paints it. Sometimes you can never be sustainable if you are not situational, and vice versa. But you can never be one at the risk of the other or you will invariably fail.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

That was exactly my point. Maybe I did not explain it well, but it is never as black and white as Lombardi paints it. Sometimes you can never be sustainable if you are not situational, and vice versa. But you can never be one at the risk of the other or you will invariably fail.

I think that is what Lombardi was trying to say. Sustainability is the first priority here, though. In Minnesota and lots of places - including this board at times - it's the last. Just win now baby... And we can tear you a new one for being shortsighted later.

 

[apple strudel]

I think that is what Lombardi was trying to say. Sustainability is the first priority here, though. In Minnesota and lots of places - including this board at times - it's the last. Just win now baby... And we can tear you a new one for being shortsighted later.

Minnesota's been a pretty good team for a while now, though. Especially that defense. Favre cost them nothing except money, which doesn't hurt them from a sustainability perspective. And a 3rd is not too much to give up for Moss, considering their situation. So I guess I don't really see it as a huge sustainability impact on Minnesota. I think Lombardi says as much.

Either way, it's a pretty academic conversation I guess.

 

[IcyPatriot]

I think that is what Lombardi was trying to say. Sustainability is the first priority here, though. In Minnesota and lots of places - including this board at times - it's the last. Just win now baby... And we can tear you a new one for being shortsighted later.

I'd rather have an egg or two in the basket very year rather then rolling the dice for one or two. If you factor in injuries and the human factor regarding players there is never a guarantee of winning it all.

What I like best about how Bill runs the team is he challenges the souls and heart of his players. They don't stand and watch while others do the work. They know when they come here what is expected. Give me a good QB, a few good players from each unit and the rest hungry and with this coach and owner we will win again.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

I don't think there is much question that this offense will be much LESS predicatable now without Moss. Moss really only excelled at one think. Deep routes. He's did the others, with less and less frequency, but he was most dangerous burning down the field.

I can definitely see some more creative stuff coming out of the 2 TE sets. May not be as effective or flashy, but I do see less predictability.