LINK: Top 5 offensive linemen in Patriot History

[TheRainMaker]

We should have more threads like this - DL, LB, WR, RB, CB, draft picks, coaches, etc.

 

[turkeyneck]

I really think the knee blowing out on TE Lin Dawson changed the complexion of the game. It occurred early. Coach Ray Berry was on to something in attacking the ‘46’ defense using the TE.

It certainly changed the complexion of Eason. I remember being fully confident in a win until I saw the fear take hold of him.

 

[p8ryts]

Why did the Patriots ever cut McMichael?

Too small?

 

[Water Boy]

Zefross Moss

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

For me, that loss was only painful due to how it started.

Pats kick off. Bears go on O and fumble, Pats recover and wind up with 3 (after a rare Stanley drop which would have been for six).

Then the wheels came off, the gas tank exploded. and the shrapnel shredded the Pats sideline.

Berry is a nice guy who hit his ceiling right after the players put him down after carrying him off the Orange Bowl field.

I find it difficult to believe he prepared for his title games with the Colts that way. He went along with most locals who were just happy to be there.

Raymond didn't join the Patriots' coaching staff until after 1976, so he wasn't there in Oakland.

 

[Pape]

Brian Winters for his year here at RG was dominant, almost the level of John Hannah at his best.

Never played for the Pats...

 

[Pape]

Why did the Patriots ever cut McMichael?

according to the man himself
"McMichael was released by the Patriots before the start of his second season after playing hard both on and off the field.

"I would fight in practice and I would stay out all night in the Combat Zone," McMichael said, referring to an adult entertainment district in Boston. "But if you can perform, go experience life, young man. The coaches called me up. They said, 'Steve, we think you might be able to be a second-stringer in the league, but we think you're the criminal element, so get out."

McMichael reflects on year with Pats

Steve McMichael played 13 illustrious seasons with the Bears, but not before the Patriots cut him following his rookie year, calling him "the criminal element" in the NFL

www.chicagobears.com

 

[upstater1]

according to the man himself
"McMichael was released by the Patriots before the start of his second season after playing hard both on and off the field.

"I would fight in practice and I would stay out all night in the Combat Zone," McMichael said, referring to an adult entertainment district in Boston. "But if you can perform, go experience life, young man. The coaches called me up. They said, 'Steve, we think you might be able to be a second-stringer in the league, but we think you're the criminal element, so get out."

McMichael reflects on year with Pats

Steve McMichael played 13 illustrious seasons with the Bears, but not before the Patriots cut him following his rookie year, calling him "the criminal element" in the NFL

www.chicagobears.com

LOL... uh, yeah, the Combat Zone. Guy was drinking Cold Tea at 4 am and coming to practice. Back then, I bet the other restaurants must have loved the fact that the Chinese places were allowed to serve alcohol all day long.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

I am surprised at the lack of appreciation for Bruce Armstrong. He was a rock for a long time during a dark period and was often the best player on the team. It is a pity that he never won a super bowl.

"Bruce Armstrong holds the team record with 212 games played, starting in every one of them. A six-time Pro Bowl participant, Armstrong was only one of three players in league history to play with the same team in three different decades."

 

[Pape]

I am surprised at the lack of appreciation for Bruce Armstrong. He was a rock for a long time during a dark period and was often the best player on the team. It is a pity that he never won a super bowl.

"Bruce Armstrong holds the team record with 212 games played, starting in every one of them. A six-time Pro Bowl participant, Armstrong was only one of three players in league history to play with the same team in three different decades."

Under rated as a whole against his peers, i think because he played during a real up and down era...

 

[Patsgofor4]

This ranking is a little questionable: Top Five Greatest Offensive Linemen In New England Patriots History

1. John Hannah
2. Bruce Armstrong
3. Logan Mankins
4. Matt Light
5. Dan Koppen

Honorable mention: David Andrews, Nate Solder, Sebastian Vollmer, Jon Morris.

I would accuse him of having recency bias if he didn't include Jon Morris, but some of these guys, like Solder and Andrews, are behind Pete Brock, Bill Lenkaitis, Shelby Jordan, Brian Holloway (3 Pro Bowls), Bob Cryder, Stephen Neal, Damien Woody (Pro Bowl) and Leon Gray (multiple Pro Bowls, 3x All-Pro).

My 5:

1. John Hannah
2. Bruce Armstrong
3. Leon Gray
4. Brian Holloway
5A. Matt Light
5B. Pete Brock

Logan Mankins, Joe Thuney, Sam Adams, Bill Lenkaitis, Shelby Jordan, Jon Morris, Stephen Neal and Sebastian Vollmer for honorable mention.

Koppen. LOL. What a joke.

Tell me that you are under the age of 35 and have no clue about any pre-1995 OL other than Hannah without telling me that you are under that age of 35 and have no clue about any pre-1995 OL other than Hannah.

 

[Patsgofor4]

This ranking is a little questionable: Top Five Greatest Offensive Linemen In New England Patriots History

1. John Hannah
2. Bruce Armstrong
3. Logan Mankins
4. Matt Light
5. Dan Koppen

Honorable mention: David Andrews, Nate Solder, Sebastian Vollmer, Jon Morris.

I would accuse him of having recency bias if he didn't include Jon Morris, but some of these guys, like Solder and Andrews, are behind Pete Brock, Bill Lenkaitis, Shelby Jordan, Brian Holloway (3 Pro Bowls), Bob Cryder, Stephen Neal, Damien Woody (Pro Bowl) and Leon Gray (multiple Pro Bowls, 3x All-Pro).

My 5:

1. John Hannah
2. Bruce Armstrong
3. Leon Gray
4. Brian Holloway
5A. Matt Light
5B. Pete Brock

Logan Mankins, Joe Thuney, Sam Adams, Bill Lenkaitis, Shelby Jordan, Jon Morris, Stephen Neal and Sebastian Vollmer for honorable mention.

He very likely included Morris because he was at least smart enough to realize that he was going to get called out for recency bias, so he googled “Patriots Hall of Fame” and saw that Morris had been inducted in 2011. Otherwise, he probably wouldn’t know who Morris is even if JM walked up to him wearing one of his Pats game jerseys, said “I’m Jon Morris, b*tch” and then kicked him in the nuts.

Holloway should be in the discussion, given that he was a 3 time pro bowler, but he benefited greatly from playing next to the greatest OL of all-time. His career ended pretty quickly after Hannah retired.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Holloway should be in the discussion, given that he was a 3 time pro bowler, but he benefited greatly from playing next to the greatest OL of all-time. His career ended pretty quickly after Hannah retired.

Brian was a good player and an inspirational figure. I believe due to his stuttering, he was told early in school he would never go to college. He went to Stanford.

During WBZ-TV's coverage of the Patriots' training camp in 1985, Raymond Berry's first as head coach, Brian answered a query about the team's morale from Bob Lobel by saying, "We're pissed off..." Lobel profusely apologized afterward, because there was no five second delay and you didn't use that expression on television at that time. But it definitely reflected the attitude of the team, and resolve now that Berry's highly unpopular predecessor Ron Meyer was gone.

After John Hannah retired after Super Bowl XX, the Patriots finished dead last in the NFL in rushing. Local media repeatedly pointed out that they often would have gained more yardage if James or Collins simply fell forward after taking the handoff. If you think there was a positional dropoff when Tom left to Tampa you can also remember that the 1986 Patriots averaged less than 3 yards per carry for the season.

Due to determination, special teams, great receivers and of course Grogan being his usual clutch self, they still went 11-5 winning the AFC East, and then ran very well in the playoff at Denver, however with only 24 carries for 121 yards. Eason (again, as usual) started instead of Grogan and got sacked six times so Elway's unimpressive undefeated string against New England continued.

Brian was then traded to the Raiders, where he started eight games and then none in 1988 before retiring.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I am surprised at the lack of appreciation for Bruce Armstrong. He was a rock for a long time during a dark period and was often the best player on the team. It is a pity that he never won a super bowl.

"Bruce Armstrong holds the team record with 212 games played, starting in every one of them. A six-time Pro Bowl participant, Armstrong was only one of three players in league history to play with the same team in three different decades."

Under rated as a whole against his peers, i think because he played during a real up and down era...

Bruce made 2nd team All-Pro in a 1988 season where he did not make the Pro Bowl. He played his ass off through the Flutieless era and through Parcells and Carroll. His #78 is deservedly retired.

 

[Pape]

Bruce made 2nd team All-Pro in a 1988 season where he did not make the Pro Bowl. He played his ass off through the Flutieless era and through Parcells and Carroll. His #78 is deservedly retired.

I don't really care about pro bowls, the nfls version of a participation trophy

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

He very likely included Morris because he was at least smart enough to realize that he was going to get called out for recency bias, so he googled “Patriots Hall of Fame” and saw that Morris had been inducted in 2011. Otherwise, he probably wouldn’t know who Morris is even if JM walked up to him wearing one of his Pats game jerseys, said “I’m Jon Morris, b*tch” and then kicked him in the nuts.

Jon, like Gino, is a true gentleman, who also did NFL broadcasting. They, along with Houston Antwine and Armstrong, belong in Canton, period.

Three WR's who were Patriots have Hall-worthy career stats: Stanley Morgan, Harold Jackson and Henry Ellard. We all know about Wes Welker, too.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I don't really care about pro bowls, the nfls version of a participation trophy

...or a popularity contest.

It can be useless, but also is often indicative of a player's esteem among his peers and his performance.

 

[Pape]

...or a popularity contest.

It can be useless, but also is often indicative of a player's esteem among his peers and his performance.

Yeah, I get it... Its different for older players... Those pro bowls were earned, and hard fought affairs... The ones now arent... Players don't take it seriously, why should I

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

It certainly changed the complexion of Eason. I remember being fully confident in a win until I saw the fear take hold of him.

NBC betting guru Pete Axthelm reflected the certainty of everyone before the game that the Patriots had no chance. Also in the SNL cold open the night before, when a table of monks unanimously raised their hands betting on the Bears, shouting details including the fact that Eason came down with the flu.

The 1985 Patriots were going nowhere fast until the Buffalo game here where Eason got knocked out and Grogan took over. Steve led the team to six straight wins, before the Jets broke his leg at the Meadowlands. Eason came off the bench and played well before NY prevailed in overtime.

Eason is to Grogan what Bledsoe is to Brady. The formers possessed none of the acumen, awareness, timing, leadership and ability to make the clutch plays in pressure situations that the latters did. Brady spent six very successful years being called a game manager (he was...but obviously astronomically more). Grogan is rightfully remembered for being tough but his picks are overemphasized, as they are for a lot of quarterbacks pre-1990.

What Berry and apparently the Patriots scouts were unaware of is what anyone with a TV and interest in the game knew that year: that the Chicago Bears were the strongest team in the league, and only a very special strategy and effort would give any opponent a chance to defeat them. Berry needed to do things he never did: Start Grogan in an important game instead of an active Eason; crack the whip on the team in practice and preparation; and actively motivate and inspire the team for a match against a physically superior opponent. The Bears were immature, ****y, vulnerable mentally and overconfident, as indicated by their ridiculous yet popular video made before the season. They used this insecurity as adrenalin successfully, as no team could match their intensity. Some teams correctly surmised that running the ball would control the game and slow down their pass rush; but no one was able to do it. The Patriots didn't even try. Fuller started the Monday night loss in the Orange Bowl and Marino went off. In New Orleans, the Dolphins would have had no home field advantage and Suhey, Payton et al. would have gained even more on the ground vs. Miami's paper-thin defense.

I was apprehensive about the Super Bowl since the Monday morning after the conference title games. As we know painfully this century, the head coach does not spend his time watching the games on TV throughout the year like we do, and thus often misses the blindingly obvious about what works and what doesn't against opponents.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Yeah, I get it... Its different for older players... Those pro bowls were earned, and hard fought affairs... The ones now arent... Players don't take it seriously, why should I

Modern sports is watered down, antiseptic and money driven. Given that, it's impressive that most players still bring it. You can't blame them for society, culture and (social) media.