Player Signing Lawrence Guy officially re-signs

[Ring 6]

Watch the northwestern game

I did and have. Watch the Clemson game.

 

[pazrul72]

Then what do you do about the gaping hemorrhaging hole at QB? The farm is worth mortgaging if the money you get gives you the equipment to run it. Not mortgaging a barren farm leaves you with a worthless asset.

And when the equipment you get is a lemon with a busted engine? Now you have a monthly payment and no equipment. I love Lance I think he would be a perfect understudy for Cam and would 100% support giving up a first and 2 seconds for him but he does have only one year of tape against lousy competition during a Covid year. I am not so sure he will be great that I am giving up multiple firsts. So assuming the top 4 are gone before pick 9 I would much rather ride Cam, bring in another Vet for competition, see if Stid has anything at all, and get the top LB to learn from Hightower then go all in on a questionable QB. If 4-5 QBs go in the top 10 that means some truly exceptional players will still be available, the kind BB very rarely gets to mold.

 

[Sicilian]

2004. Big Ben, Eli, and Rivers are 3 border line HOFers, depending on your criteria, but to your point it's very rare and likely that at least one of the big 4 this year is going to be a horrible bust probably 2. I wouldn't mortgage the farm for any of them. A small trade up to 9 if one you LOVE falls sure but anything more then that is too big a gamble for me.

And horrible bust isn't even the only outcome that could really hamper you. What if one of them is Andy Dalton? The kind of guy that's too good to move on from because you have to do this song and dance again, but never good enough to actually win with? The kind of guy you feel the need to re-sign at going QB rates, that then has limited help around him needed to elevate his flawed game? Dalton wasn't a bust, but he puts you in a no man's land that is really hard to escape.

 

[Ring 6]

And when the equipment you get is a lemon with a busted engine? Now you have a monthly payment and no equipment. I love Lance I think he would be a perfect understudy for Cam and would 100% support giving up a first and 2 seconds for him but he does have only one year of tape against lousy competition during a Covid year. I am not so sure he will be great that I am giving up multiple firsts. So assuming the top 4 are gone before pick 9 I would much rather ride Cam, bring in another Vet for competition, see if Stid has anything at all, and get the top LB to learn from Hightower then go all in on a questionable QB. If 4-5 QBs go in the top 10 that means some truly exceptional players will still be available, the kind BB very rarely gets to mold.

If you don’t fix the QB position you don’t win.
telling me cam Newton is the answer, counting on Stidham or hoping some unknown guy gets signed after we’ve spent our cap money, tells me we are giving up on any chance to get back to championship contender.
Building a team by ignoring the qb position does not work.

Bit you are entitled to your opinion, I just think it’s a path to mediocrity and bb retiring without another playoff win much less ring.

 

[pazrul72]

And horrible bust isn't even the only outcome that could really hamper you. What if one of them is Andy Dalton? The kind of guy that's too good to move on from because you have to do this song and dance again, but never good enough to actually win with? The kind of guy you feel the need to re-sign at going QB rates, that then has limited help around him needed to elevate his flawed game? Dalton wasn't a bust, but he puts you in a no man's land that is really hard to escape.

That was another thing that hit me about how high the bar has been raised and how ridiculous, at least my expectations are, how happy would you be if we drafted the next Eli or Rivers? My initial reaction was ewww Eli and Rivers wasn’t that great. Yet 2 SBs or 15 years of Top 10 QB play is really good and probably better then what we will get. Most franchises would give their left nut for one SB even if it meant being average to lousy for the rest of their QBs career so while I hate saying this Eli was worth that #1 pick.

 

[Sicilian]

That was another thing that hit me about how high the bar has been raised and how ridiculous, at least my expectations are, how happy would you be if we drafted the next Eli or Rivers? My initial reaction was ewww Eli and Rivers wasn’t that great. Yet 2 SBs or 15 years of Top 10 QB play is really good and probably better then what we will get. Most franchises would give their left nut for one SB even if it meant being average to lousy for the rest of their QBs career so while I hate saying this Eli was worth that #1 pick.

Yeah, the other example I was thinking of was Joe Flacco. IMO, Flacco isn't any better than Dalton, he just hit a hot streak in a year when he also had a great defense. He then cashed in for a huge contract, and the Ravens did nothing of note until Jackson took over for him. Would that be an acceptable outcome for a kid we traded up to draft? It's hard to pass up a Super Bowl win in that scenario, but it wouldn't feel terribly satisfying 10 years after the fact.

 

[pazrul72]

If you don’t fix the QB position you don’t win.
telling me cam Newton is the answer, counting on Stidham or hoping some unknown guy gets signed after we’ve spent our cap money, tells me we are giving up on any chance to get back to championship contender.
Building a team by ignoring the qb position does not work.

Bit you are entitled to your opinion, I just think it’s a path to mediocrity and bb retiring without another playoff win much less ring.

2015 Denver Broncos dragged the corpse of Payton Manning to a title. Trent Dilfer has a ring on his finger. Joe toss it up and hope for a flag Flacco won a SB. Eli is about as average as they come and yet is a borderline HOFer because his team caught lightning in a bottle twice. It CAN be done. Now I agree with you it’s not the optimal way to do it and it might get you one chip, if everything falls right, versus having the guy and getting multiple shots at it.

Here is where the risk gets too high for me. Assume you have to get to 4 for Fields or Wilson whichever one falls. That is going to cost you a first and second this year and next, maybe more if there is a bidding war. You get your QB though so who cares right? The team is loaded. Except he isn’t the guy you thought he was, well no problem we will just get him some better weapons. Oh wait Trent brown left in FA again so we have to spend money fixing the oline. Ok we can draft him a #1 WR....oh we don’t have the resources to get someone talented. If Cam fails again, which I think he will because he was a bottom 1/3rd starter last year but I am willing to see if a full offseason and COVID brain go away, it’s a 1 year problem. You reload and try again next year. If Fields/Wilson/choose your binky fails you are attached to that failure for at least 3 years before you will have the capital to try again. None of the QBs I have looked at are worth that kind of risk compared to getting the next Hightower. Teams win championships not QBs.

 

[BTTA]

Then what do you do about the gaping hemorrhaging hole at QB? The farm is worth mortgaging if the money you get gives you the equipment to run it. Not mortgaging a barren farm leaves you with a worthless asset.

I think everyone agrees the farm equipment needs upgrading. Do you go to auction and buy the newest model that is expensive, untested, and potentially a lemon or misfit, on the chance that it will be the only purchase you need to make for 10 years? Or do you buy used, dependable and known, albeit lower quality, and try to make up for it with better farming techniques?

If the problem was simple, it wouldn't be causing 1,000 posts on the message board.

I'm just not certain in either direction. I really didn't anticipate in January that the team would be anywhere near this close to highly competitive in March, so I'm lovin' it.

 

[Ring 6]

2015 Denver Broncos dragged the corpse of Payton Manning to a title. Trent Dilfer has a ring on his finger. Joe toss it up and hope for a flag Flacco won a SB. Eli is about as average as they come and yet is a borderline HOFer because his team caught lightning in a bottle twice. It CAN be done. Now I agree with you it’s not the optimal way to do it and it might get you one chip, if everything falls right, versus having the guy and getting multiple shots at it.

Here is where the risk gets too high for me. Assume you have to get to 4 for Fields or Wilson whichever one falls. That is going to cost you a first and second this year and next, maybe more if there is a bidding war. You get your QB though so who cares right? The team is loaded. Except he isn’t the guy you thought he was, well no problem we will just get him some better weapons. Oh wait Trent brown left in FA again so we have to spend money fixing the oline. Ok we can draft him a #1 WR....oh we don’t have the resources to get someone talented. If Cam fails again, which I think he will because he was a bottom 1/3rd starter last year but I am willing to see if a full offseason and COVID brain go away, it’s a 1 year problem. You reload and try again next year. If Fields/Wilson/choose your binky fails you are attached to that failure for at least 3 years before you will have the capital to try again. None of the QBs I have looked at are worth that kind of risk compared to getting the next Hightower. Teams win championships not QBs.

Eli Manning played very well in those postseason.
So you find 2 of the greatest defenses ever and decide QBs doesn’t matter. Both if those were better then than newton is now by the way.

Your argument adds up to don’t fix the qb situation because it isn’t guaranteed. It never is.

Yes teams win championships but the most important piece of that team is the QB.
It’s like saying all the pieces win a chess match, the queen doesn’t win a chess match so you play without a queen.

 

[BTTA]

2015 Denver Broncos dragged the corpse of Payton Manning to a title. Trent Dilfer has a ring on his finger. Joe toss it up and hope for a flag Flacco won a SB. Eli is about as average as they come and yet is a borderline HOFer because his team caught lightning in a bottle twice. It CAN be done. Now I agree with you it’s not the optimal way to do it and it might get you one chip, if everything falls right, versus having the guy and getting multiple shots at it.

Here is where the risk gets too high for me. Assume you have to get to 4 for Fields or Wilson whichever one falls. That is going to cost you a first and second this year and next, maybe more if there is a bidding war. You get your QB though so who cares right? The team is loaded. Except he isn’t the guy you thought he was, well no problem we will just get him some better weapons. Oh wait Trent brown left in FA again so we have to spend money fixing the oline. Ok we can draft him a #1 WR....oh we don’t have the resources to get someone talented. If Cam fails again, which I think he will because he was a bottom 1/3rd starter last year but I am willing to see if a full offseason and COVID brain go away, it’s a 1 year problem. You reload and try again next year. If Fields/Wilson/choose your binky fails you are attached to that failure for at least 3 years before you will have the capital to try again. None of the QBs I have looked at are worth that kind of risk compared to getting the next Hightower. Teams win championships not QBs.

It does seem that the draft is now about either a top QB, or about drafting the replacements for Hightower, Brown, Wynn, Karras, Gilmore, Jackson, and others. Doing both is tough to figure.

 

[pazrul72]

Eli Manning played very well in those postseason.
So you find 2 of the greatest defenses ever and decide QBs doesn’t matter. Both if those were better then than newton is now by the way.

Your argument adds up to don’t fix the qb situation because it isn’t guaranteed. It never is.

Yes teams win championships but the most important piece of that team is the QB.
It’s like saying all the pieces win a chess match, the queen doesn’t win a chess match so you play without a queen.

Try reading again. Never said QBs don’t matter, in fact I pointed out the best way to win multiple championships are by getting the guy. I merely gave you examples that it IS possible to win with a great team and a lousy QB. My argument adds up to the cost is too high to risk that much on ANY player. I wouldn’t give up 2 firsts for Lawerence. Even in chess it’s possible to win without a queen. I spot my queen to my kid to make it a game because otherwise it’s over too quickly. Does it make it more challenging to not have a QB? 100% agree it’s not a great place to be in and I want them to try and get the guy. **** I would be fine taking 2 or 3 of the mid round guys hoping one of them is decent But it’s not the death sentence why even bother playing the season you are making it out to be

 

[Ring 6]

Try reading again. Never said QBs don’t matter, in fact I pointed out the best way to win multiple championships are by getting the guy. I merely gave you examples that it IS possible to win with a great team and a lousy QB. My argument adds up to the cost is too high to risk that much on ANY player. I wouldn’t give up 2 firsts for Lawerence. Even in chess it’s possible to win without a queen. I spot my queen to my kid to make it a game because otherwise it’s over too quickly. Does it make it more challenging to not have a QB? 100% agree it’s not a great place to be in and I want them to try and get the guy. **** I would be fine taking 2 or 3 of the mid round guys hoping one of them is decent But it’s not the death sentence why even bother playing the season you are making it out to be

I think it is a death sentence. There is zero chance of winning a Sb with cam Newton in 2021. You could put him on any of the 32 teams and none could win the SB. He just is not capable.
Why go through everything we did in this offseason to have it destroyed by the QB position.
We aren’t playing against kids who wouldn’t be competitive if we had a real qb we are playing against teams that are competitive if we had the best qb.

What good are draft picks if you are missing the most important piece?

I really hope belichick doesn’t think like you are because I believe he will never win another playoff game if he thinks having the worst QBs in the nfl is acceptable.

 

[Ring 6]

I think everyone agrees the farm equipment needs upgrading. Do you go to auction and buy the newest model that is expensive, untested, and potentially a lemon or misfit, on the chance that it will be the only purchase you need to make for 10 years? Or do you buy used, dependable and known, albeit lower quality, and try to make up for it with better farming techniques?

[/QUOTE]
Terrible analogy because there are no used dependable and known QBs available.

If the problem was simple, it wouldn't be causing 1,000 posts on the message board.

I'm just not certain in either direction. I really didn't anticipate in January that the team would be anywhere near this close to highly competitive in March, so I'm lovin' it.

A lot of people didn’t foresee that 60 million was there to spend and that belichick would spend it wisely.
He left one hole, so why wouldn’t he go fill it?

 

[pazrul72]

I think it is a death sentence.

Then nothing I say or show you is going to change your mind so I bid you good day Andy.

 

[pazrul72]

It does seem that the draft is now about either a top QB, or about drafting the replacements for Hightower, Brown, Wynn, Karras, Gilmore, Jackson, and others. Doing both is tough to figure.

It is tough and part of what makes watching the draft and scouting prospects so interesting. I have disagreed with BB about specific players (you should have seen me throwing things when he drafted McCourty) but the way he works the draft is perfect. Take lots of shots and be willing to trade out if the value isn’t there. Yeah you are going to have a bunch of misses but they don’t hurt as much because you took extra shots. It’s why I would take a 3rd/4th round QB every year. You are going to get 3 Ryan Mallets but all it takes is one Russell Wilson to make it all worth it.

 

[jah]

It does seem that the draft is now about either a top QB, or about drafting the replacements for Hightower, Brown, Wynn, Karras, Gilmore, Jackson, and others. Doing both is tough to figure.

I could definitely see us spending a high pick on an off-ball linebacker or CB, even WR or tackle.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Good to have him back. His addition takes the D-line from dire need to a need. If you think his addition is going to eliminate going front 7 if a QB isn't available you haven't noticed how Bill has so many DB's early when it really wasn't needed. With that being said, he drafts a CB with the #15 pick.

Guy, Godchaux, Adams, Anderson, Davis, Cowart. That's a pretty full rotation. I'm not sure it's a need at all. Sure, I'd love to get a NT of the future, and a disruptive player like Seymour, but I don't see anyone like that available in FA or the draft. We'll probably take a shot on someone late, or try again next year. For 2021, this position is likely set.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Guy, Godchaux, Adams, Anderson, Davis, Cowart. That's a pretty full rotation. I'm not sure it's a need at all. Sure, I'd love to get a NT of the future, and a disruptive player like Seymour, but I don't see anyone like that available in FA or the draft. We'll probably take a shot on someone late, or try again next year. For 2021, this position is likely set.

....don't forget Wise.

 

[Ring 6]

Then nothing I say or show you is going to change your mind so I bid you good day Andy.

What are you going to say it show me that changes what I saw 15 games worth of last year?

 

[DaBruinz]

Guy, Godchaux, Adams, Anderson, Davis, Cowart. That's a pretty full rotation. I'm not sure it's a need at all. Sure, I'd love to get a NT of the future, and a disruptive player like Seymour, but I don't see anyone like that available in FA or the draft. We'll probably take a shot on someone late, or try again next year. For 2021, this position is likely set.

I think we're going to see more 3 man fronts this year. The problem I see with Davis is his concussion issues. He had 3 last year in the time he spent with the Patriots. If he's out, the Pats don't have a replacement if Godchaux goes down.

Guy, Adams, Anderson, Cowart, Wise, and Spence is a very good set of DEs in a 3 man front. I think a NT will be take in the draft or a DT who can stand up to double-teams on a regular basis.

I honestly foresee them taking an sideline to sideline ILB who had the speed and agility to cover as well as the strength to stand in against the run.