Kyle Love’s not surprised the Patriots released him

[DaBruinz]

You guys will make excuses for anything the Patriots organization will do. He was good for the role he played while he was here. He was cut because of his condition, not because of his performance. If he was not diagnosed with diabetes, he'd likely still be playing for the Pats.

I support the team, but this didn't make sense if we're just talking performance. Especially if you consider who's behind him in the depth chart that's a proven player in our system.

And regarding soured grapes, he expressed what is true about how the Pats run their business.

And you will sit there and make BS statements to paint what the Pats do in a negative way any chance you get.

Love sucked during the 2nd half of the season. Whether it was the diabetes or some other reason. He was benched in favor of Deaderick.

Love was given the option of taking the year off to get a handle on his diabetes with their support or get cut. Love chose to get cut and try and play this year while also trying to handle his diabetes.

BTW, it's pure BS speculation on your part that Love would probably still be here if he hadn't been diagnosed with the diabetes. It's something you can't support with anything factual.

 

[DaBruinz]

It has something to do with it, if only to the extent that it has something to do with him being a limited football player both now and going forward.

Again, he's being replaced by a player that every team in the league passed on because of heart problems. They also released a player with no health concerns at the same position who was better than Love last year. How do you reconcile that with your claim that Love was released because of his healthy?

Let's clear something up. Armstead had nothing physically wrong with his heart. The problem was that the USC medical staff/trainers were over-medicating him with Toradol. One of the side effects from over-medicating someone is that it can cause a heart attack. Which is what happened to Armstead. When he was fully off the meds, he was fine and so was his heart. He hasn't had any issues since and it's been over 2 years.

Armstead currently has a lawsuit pending against USC over the matter and it is moving forward because the results clearly effected his draft status and USC tried to cover it up by not medically clearing him afterwards.

 

[BradyFTW!]

So to summarize, you believe the Pats got rid of two healthy depth players for an unproven player with heart problems because they simply believe the unproven player with heart problems will be a more productive player in a system he's unfamiliar with?

Not exactly, but that's not so far off. I believe that they know that Love and Deaderick aren't good enough to even be considered quality depth. They feel that they can go and get better players pretty easily, including Armstead. As it just so happens, Armstead is a dramatically superior physical specimen compared to either one of them. And his physical checked out. The point of bringing up his past heart issues is to underscore the fact that the Pats are willing to take on players with some health baggage. So that's clearly not, in of itself, why Love was released.

Familiarity with the system only gets you so far if you're not very good.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Let's clear something up. Armstead had nothing physically wrong with his heart. The problem was that the USC medical staff/trainers were over-medicating him with Toradol. One of the side effects from over-medicating someone is that it can cause a heart attack. Which is what happened to Armstead. When he was fully off the meds, he was fine and so was his heart. He hasn't had any issues since and it's been over 2 years.

Armstead currently has a lawsuit pending against USC over the matter and it is moving forward because the results clearly effected his draft status and USC tried to cover it up by not medically clearing him afterwards.

Fair point, but the guy had a heart attack. I feel pretty comfortable calling that a 'heart problem', and it's exactly why nobody drafted him.

 

[shmessy]

Let's clear something up. Armstead had nothing physically wrong with his heart. The problem was that the USC medical staff/trainers were over-medicating him with Toradol. One of the side effects from over-medicating someone is that it can cause a heart attack. Which is what happened to Armstead. When he was fully off the meds, he was fine and so was his heart. He hasn't had any issues since and it's been over 2 years.

Armstead currently has a lawsuit pending against USC over the matter and it is moving forward because the results clearly effected his draft status and USC tried to cover it up by not medically clearing him afterwards.

All of us who actually know the story know this. Evidently, BradyFTW! only saw the "heart attack" part and jumped to conclusions.

 

[BradyFTW!]

And you will sit there and make BS statements to paint what the Pats do in a negative way any chance you get.

Love sucked during the 2nd half of the season. Whether it was the diabetes or some other reason. He was benched in favor of Deaderick.

Love was given the option of taking the year off to get a handle on his diabetes with their support or get cut. Love chose to get cut and try and play this year while also trying to handle his diabetes.

BTW, it's pure BS speculation on your part that Love would probably still be here if he hadn't been diagnosed with the diabetes. It's something you can't support with anything factual.

Considering that they already cut the guy who passed him on the depth chart, there's far more evidence that the Pats would have cut him regardless of the diabetes diagnosis than that they wouldn't have.

 

[NE_PATS_FAN_54]

Because I think they were thinking more about his health and welfare. They were not going to play him this year (too afraid of heart attack or stroke which can be the result of untreated type 2 - - how the hell can an athlete keep up 310 pounds - - not by eating celery), but wanted him to take a paid year off to get his health in focus. He refused.

Paid year off? Where did you see this? They told him to retire from what I have seen. If they were so concerned about his health and well being, then they could have put him on one of the IR/NFI lists for the year.

Or....just wait a few months and see how he reacts, how his body takes to his new diet, how his performance is affected, etc. In this era of being able to carry 90 players into camp - when you have practically the entire senior class from a marginal team in one of the worst football conferences in D1 on the roster, when you sign players with the sole intention to fill up practice, when you claim and carry players for a year who you know are injured (Ballard) ---- your telling me that you couldn't at the least keep Love around until training camp? You have to force him to retire or be released?

 

[shmessy]

Fair point, but the guy had a heart attack. I feel pretty comfortable calling that a 'heart problem', and it's exactly why nobody drafted him.

Please, you're just playing semantics now.

Armstead's heart is no worse off now than any other healthy person's heart. His heart didn't fail because of the heart's condition. What you are saying is akin to saying someone who was put under anasthesia fell asleep because he simply was dizzy and passed out. Please. Stop.

Love is a 310 pound man with Type 2 Diabetes who must maintain that dangerous weight in order to play.

If you continue to try to juxtapose those two conditions then you are only trolling this subject at this point.

 

[NE_PATS_FAN_54]

All of us who actually know the story know this. Evidently, BradyFTW! only saw the "heart attack" part and jumped to conclusions.

Couldn't agree with BradyFTW anymore.....a heart attack is heart attack. You guys can sip your cool-aid and convince yourself that it's not a big deal but, there is a reason that the entire NFL passed on him a year ago (not even a rookie camp try-out).

 

[Ian]

Please, you're just playing semantics now.

Armstead's heart is no worse off now than any other healthy person's heart. His heart didn't fail because of the heart's condition. He's been checked out numerous times by the best doctors and they have all given him a clean bill of health.

Love is a 310 pound man with Type 2 Diabetes who must maintain that dangerous weight in order to play.

If you continue to try to juxtapose those two conditions then you are only trolling this subject at this point.

I don't know if that's necessarily completely true because a heart attack certainly weakens it, it's usually just a question of the severity. The interesting thing to find out would be learning more about the long-term implications after playing football with that condition. Obviously he managed in the CFL well enough to get a shot here, but there's no denying that it was a serious thing.

I guess the other thing to wonder - if anyone really wanted to get into it and go there - is why the team gave Bruschi the opportunity to come back after suffering a stroke, which you could also argue health-wise was similar to Love and if nothing else certainly unprecedented considering I don't think any other NFL player has ever suffered a stroke and returned - much less played at the high level Bruschi did. Obviously Bruschi was a better player so clearly every situation is viewed differently, although I'd be willing to bet that stroke potentially cost him 1-2 more seasons.

Nevertheless it's over now and Love is gone - so, "time to focus on the guys who are here "

 

[shmessy]

Paid year off? Where did you see this? They told him to retire from what I have seen. If they were so concerned about his health and well being, then they could have put him on one of the IR/NFI lists for the year.

Within the first 30 seconds of the video:

Video: NFL Live on Kyle Love release - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

 

[shmessy]

I don't know if that's necessarily completely true because a heart attack certainly weakens it, it's usually just a question of the severity. The interesting thing to find out would be learning more about the long-term implications after playing football with that condition. Obviously he managed in the CFL well enough to get a shot here, but there's no denying that it was a serious thing.

I guess the other thing to wonder - if anyone really wanted to get into it and go there - is why the team gave Bruschi the opportunity to come back after suffering a stroke, which you could also argue health-wise was similar to Love and if nothing else certainly unprecedented considering I don't think any other NFL player has ever suffered a stroke and returned - much less played at the high level Bruschi did. Obviously Bruschi was a better player so clearly every situation is viewed differently, although I'd be willing to bet that stroke potentially cost him 1-2 more seasons.

Nevertheless it's over now and Love is gone - so, "time to focus on the guys who are here "

I specifically asked this (the Bruschi vs. Love thing) to a friend of mine who is a surgeon.

He pointed out that Bruschi's condition was fixed by repairing the hole in/near his heart. It was NOT due to a chronic condition. The Armstead situation was NOT due to a chronic condition either.

Kyle Love has a chronic condition - - there is no cure for Type 2 Diabetes. There is only management for it.

Staying at 310 lbs is not "management" for Type 2 Diabetes.

The conditions of Bruschi and Armstead are nowhere near analogous.

 

[Ian]

I specifically asked this (the Bruschi vs. Love thing) to a friend of mine who is a surgeon.

He pointed out that Bruschi's condition was fixed by repairing the hole in/near his heart. It was NOT due to a chronic condition. The Armstead situation was NOT due to a chronic condition either.

Kyle Love has a chronic condition - - there is no cure for Type 2 Diabetes. There is only management for it.

Staying at 310 lbs is not "management" for Type 2 Diabetes.

The conditions of Bruschi and Armstead are nowhere near analogous.

True - but I don't think you can fix the damage from a heart attack with surgery. I think the one thing you could say that makes Bruschi and Armstead analogous is that both players coming back and playing after dealing with each of their conditions are both definitely unique, so it would be a great story if Armstead can emerge as a solid contributor in this defense.

 

[shmessy]

True - but I don't think you can fix the damage from a heart attack with surgery.

Armstead did not have any heart surgery. Bruschi did not have a heart attack. So, I'm a bit confused by that first sentence.

Once again, neither condition was chronic. To the best of my knowledge, neither player was told to change his diet or lifestyle.

Love's is chronic. The most prescribed management for his condition is to cut out sugars and fats and to decrease body mass. Were he a WR or a Kicker, he'd be viable. The man has played football at 6'1" 310 lbs. He's not tall, even for a LB.

The Pats could have simply cut him and not had to pay him.

They actually offered him a big favor and he refused.

 

[Danger Zone]

In this era of being able to carry 90 players into camp - when you have practically the entire senior class from a marginal team in one of the worst football conferences in D1 on the roster, when you sign players with the sole intention to fill up practice, when you claim and carry players for a year who you know are injured (Ballard) ---- your telling me that you couldn't at the least keep Love around until training camp? You have to force him to retire or be released?

Noone can read Belichick's mind, not his defenders, not his critics.

But you are right, if Belichick is as cold-hearted and coldly calculating of a GM as the haters get such joy in pretending he is... then why wouldn't he keep Love on until Training Camp?? Why not just string him along and squeeze every bit of use out of him he can?

In A Football Life Belichick states that he releases veteran players early out of respect to the player -giving them time to be picked up by another team.

So maybe just maybe, releasing Love early was done out of respect for a veteran player allowing him the best chance to continue his career.

 

[Ian]

Armstead did not have any heart surgery. Bruschi did not have a heart attack. So, I'm a bit confused by that first sentence.

Once again, neither condition was chronic. To the best of my knowledge, neither player was told to change his diet or lifestyle.

Love's is chronic. The most prescribed management for his condition is to cut out sugars and fats and to decrease body mass. Were he a WR or a Kicker, he'd be viable. The man has played football at 6'1" 310 lbs. He's not tall, even for a LB.

The Pats could have simply cut him and not had to pay him.

They actually offered him a big favor and he refused.

I was just saying Bruschi had surgery to repair a hole in his heart, so his condition was at least somewhat treatable whereas Armstead's was a heart attack. You can't reverse the effects of a heart attack, so in Armstead's case it's just a matter of whether or not his heart is strong enough to deal with the stress that playing football involves. The good news is it sounds like he's been cleared and there's also a history to back it up because he played in the CFL.

If he makes it and performs well, that will make the second Patriot with a severe setback (Bruschi's stroke and Armstead's heart attack) to potentially play at a high level here - although it would be nice if Armstead earns a ring while he's here

 

[BradyFTW!]

Please, you're just playing semantics now.

Armstead's heart is no worse off now than any other healthy person's heart. His heart didn't fail because of the heart's condition. What you are saying is akin to saying someone who was put under anasthesia fell asleep because he simply was dizzy and passed out. Please. Stop.

Love is a 310 pound man with Type 2 Diabetes who must maintain that dangerous weight in order to play.

If you continue to try to juxtapose those two conditions then you are only trolling this subject at this point.

If you do not think that a heart attack constitutes a 'heart problem', then that's your prerogative, I guess. The fact that I pointed in my initial post--the one that you had such a problem with, for some reason--is simple and not up for debate: the heart attack is why every team in the NFL passed on him in the draft. The fact that the Patriots signed him shows that they are willing to take on players with checkered medical records when they think that it's worth their while to do so. FFS, they drafted a guy with cancer a couple of years ago, not to even mention picks like Gronk and Brandon Tate.

If the crux of the issue for you is whether or not Armstead will have any heart issues going forward, then I don't really care to debate that with you. I'm a bit skeptical of the notion that there will be no long-term effects whatsoever after suffering a heart attack, but I know that I'm not very informed on the subject. That's why I didn't make any sort of claim to this effect in my original post. You seem determined to interpret it that way, but I certainly never said it.

If you go back and actually read my post, you'll see that I was responding to someone (condon84) who was calling out the Patriots on ethical grounds because they cut a guy due to medical issues. I disputed that on a couple of levels, first because I don't believe that the Love release was solely due to his diabetes, and partly because his heir apparent has a medical history of his own. A history that caused every team in the league to pass on him entirely in the draft. The fact that Armstead and Cannon are on the roster is pretty strong evidence against the idea that the Pats refuse to work with players just because they have health complications.

Either way, I'm really not sure where the hostility is coming from. Calm down.

 

[mrscruff]

https://twitter.com/KyleLove74

@KyleLove74

It's been real NEW ENGLAND!!! Thanks for everything!!!

Wanna thank the pats for everything much love!

For all pats fans that think they have the answers about my situation, your wrong? If I really told people about the truth it would hurt...

Your feelings so don't go asking questions for answers you don't want!

Let this be like water under a bridge and let it go! I'm fine with what happen!

If you didn't hear the convo between me and bill then (Please be quiet - edited) and go on about your day like nothing happened!

Don't believe what you hear and believe half of what you see! #CODEBLACK

 

[condon84]

And you will sit there and make BS statements to paint what the Pats do in a negative way any chance you get.

BS. I've sided with the Pats organization on a lot of issues (most recently the Welker situation). Your problem is that you only respond to the posts that are critical of the Pats. So this is a "YOU" problem.

Love was given the option of taking the year off to get a handle on his diabetes with their support or get cut. Love chose to get cut and try and play this year while also trying to handle his diabetes.

Do you have a link for this?

BTW, it's pure BS speculation on your part that Love would probably still be here if he hadn't been diagnosed with the diabetes. It's something you can't support with anything factual.

So you can support your argument that Love would have been cut anyways even if he wasn't diagnosed with diabetes?

 

[shmessy]

If you do not think that a heart attack constitutes a 'heart problem', then that's your prerogative, I guess. The fact that I pointed in my initial post--the one that you had such a problem with, for some reason--is simple and not up for debate: the heart attack is why every team in the NFL passed on him in the draft. The fact that the Patriots signed him shows that they are willing to take on players with checkered medical records when they think that it's worth their while to do so. FFS, they drafted a guy with cancer a couple of years ago, not to even mention picks like Gronk and Brandon Tate.

If the crux of the issue for you is whether or not Armstead will have any heart issues going forward, then I don't really care to debate that with you. I'm a bit skeptical of the notion that there will be no long-term effects whatsoever after suffering a heart attack, but I know that I'm not very informed on the subject. That's why I didn't make any sort of claim to this effect in my original post. You seem determined to interpret it that way, but I certainly never said it.

If you go back and actually read my post, you'll see that I was responding to someone (condon84) who was calling out the Patriots on ethical grounds because they cut a guy due to medical issues. I disputed that on a couple of levels, first because I don't believe that the Love release was solely due to his diabetes, and partly because his heir apparent has a medical history of his own. A history that caused every team in the league to pass on him entirely in the draft. The fact that Armstead and Cannon are on the roster is pretty strong evidence against the idea that the Pats refuse to work with players just because they have health complications.

Either way, I'm really not sure where the hostility is coming from. Calm down.

No hostility at all.

I disagree with your medical assessment. If that makes you sensitive or defensive, I'm sorry. I'm not trying to upset you at all. However, when I see a non-truth, I call it out.

There are heart attacks and then there are heart attacks. There is a BIG difference (mile wide) between a heart attack precipitated by a weak heart, high cholesterol, bad arteries, and (yes) Type 2 Diabetes etc. and a heart attack that was medically induced. Armstead had a medically induced heart attack.

Simple as that. It's not about you or me.