PATRIOTS NEWS Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[SHOWTIME15]

They'll need evidence of that to present to a court of law otherwise it will get thrown out of court.

Sure, an affidavit from a police officer would do the trick.

 

[Ring 6]

I think you're wrong. Crimes are committed in changing rooms. Crimes are committed in massage parlors. Crimes are committed in bathroom stalls. Not everyone that uses those places commits a crime. If I were recorded on camera in any of those places I would file a criminal complaint against them. They are recording undressed people whether they are breaking the law or not. That cant be legal, can it?

Of course it’s legal because they went to a judge and priced probably cause.
There is no probable cause that everyone or a majority of people going into a changing room are comityinv a crime. There was very credible evidence that a brothel was in operation, which is a criminal enterprise.

Your argument is akin to saying that if your accountant is investigated for fraud and you were not involved in his fraudulent activities they cannot look at his records because yours are in there.
What they can’t do is look at his records, see yours, and charge you with an unrelated crime discovered in that search.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Right, but what purpose does releasing the video serve after the accused admits they did the crime?

We're told that will be part of what happens next.

This is where the public shaming comes in to effect.

And that's where the local law enforcement community gets to show off the trophy they bagged.

In essence it's political theater, a display of realpolitik in action.

I’d like to believe they release it to deter the the Johns from doing this again.

 

[Ring 6]

That sounds very NWO dystopian of you.. the evidence you speak of was what? Entering the legal tax paying establishment? He hugged her upon entering and leaving. What if they were friends and she found it kinky. Then your 'crime' is not solicitation, it is indecent ejaculation outside of home or hotel. This is why escorts are legal throughout our land, if you want to talk legality.

There was a long running investigation that led to this arrest. The evidence if a crime being committed that allowed the cameras to be placed was the rampant prostitution going on there.
Are you arguing whether what was caught in camera is being used to justify placing the cameras? That’s not what anyone is saying.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Right, with a warrant

No. Probable cause is all that is necessary. If someone has a crack pipe in a public bathroom and a cop hears and smells the action he/she has probable cause to investigate visually.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Actually they can. For example, if the cops raid an establishment with a warrant and with probable cause that illegal sex acts are taking place and happen to see in plain site evidence of illegal drugs, the brothel owner is now going to be charged with both crimes.

 

[RobertWeathers]

False, brother. Dozens of johns and prosties arrested, charged and convicted daily in this country without any video of sexual acts being performed. It's blatantly obvious that the motive to film these sessions was done to embarrass the johns. Hence, the apparent forthcoming and totally unnecessary release of the Kraft video inside the massage room.

I don't agree. Moving on.

 

[Triumph]

No he looks like someone who was smart and listened to lawyers

All lawyers tell you "yes" after you ask them "can we win this?" After you lose the legal battle and lots of money, lawyers say "I could have won that one"

Kraft is getting terrible legal advice.

He should have not denied anything and kept quuet. He should go on TV in NE and confess his mistake to the people and Patriots fans and ask for forgiveness. Admit that his actions have harmed the treatment of women. He shaned the franchise, NFL and Pat's fans around the world. He has expected others to adhere to a higher standard that he has failed to live up to. Get it on video and circulating around the country like his face is right now.

 

[Simpelton]

I don't agree. Moving on.

I agree that the videos are valuable evidence in any trial, but why compromise an investigation by releasing video evidence before the trial even starts? It's terrible procedure to release the video before any trial and to me it smacks of gamesmanship in an attemot to force the defendents to plead guilty or make a plea bargain of some kind.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

All lawyers tell you "yes" after you ask them "can we win this?" After you lose the legal battle and lots of money, lawyers say "I could have won that one"

Kraft is getting terrible legal advice.

He should have not denied anything and kept quuet. He should go on TV in NE and confess his mistake to the people and Patriots fans and ask for forgiveness. Admit that his actions have harmed the treatment of women. He shaned the franchise, NFL and Pat's fans around the world. He has expected others to adhere to a higher standard that he has failed to live up to. Get it on video and circulating around the country like his face is right now.

So showing his face at a pre-Oscars party the night after this news broke was a bad look for BK?

 

[Soliel]

I agree that the videos are valuable evidence in any trial, but why compromise an investigation by releasing video evidence before the trial even starts? It's terrible procedure to release the video before any trial and to me it smacks of gamesmanship in an attemot to force the defendents to plead guilty or make a plea bargain of some kind.

Where will you find a fair and impartial jury?

I doubt there’s a trial but just saying??

 

[SHOWTIME15]

So showing his face at a pre-Oscars party the night after this news broke was a bad look for BK?

Yes

 

[PatsWSB47]

I know this hasnt made it to court yet but a not guilty plea is automatic. It's so automatic that a judge will actually plead that for the defendant if he/she doesn't have a lawyer present.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Yes

Sorry, should’ve added a sarcasm emoji.

 

[XLIX]

False, brother. Dozens of johns and prosties arrested, charged and convicted daily in this country without any video of sexual acts being performed. It's blatantly obvious that the motive to film these sessions was done to embarrass the johns. Hence, the apparent forthcoming and totally unnecessary release of the Kraft video inside the massage room.

A lot of those arrests come from sting operations; i.e. a police officer poses as a prostitute (or a john) and says "this person solicited me for sex." Other are actually caught in the act at the moment it takes place. There are light years of difference between those situations and getting evidence when the sex act is taking place behind closed doors in a business establishment where the obvious defense is going to be "hey, nothing happened beyond a massage."

I agree the release of the video is unnecessary and I doubt it will be officially released. By whether or not it leaks is yet to be determined.

 

[signbabybrady]

All lawyers tell you "yes" after you ask them "can we win this?" After you lose the legal battle and lots of money, lawyers say "I could have won that one"

Kraft is getting terrible legal advice.

He should have not denied anything and kept quuet. He should go on TV in NE and confess his mistake to the people and Patriots fans and ask for forgiveness. Admit that his actions have harmed the treatment of women. He shaned the franchise, NFL and Pat's fans around the world. He has expected others to adhere to a higher standard that he has failed to live up to. Get it on video and circulating around the country like his face is right now.

It's been 4 days. Let your legal team do it's thing. Once they are done he can then go ahead and make his public statements and take any action to clean up his name he feels is needed.
If he gets the feeling this will take a long time to settle then maybe you change your mind and make a statement then but for now I think people need to remember social media and courts don't work at the same speed.

 

[Antdawg]

but why compromise an investigation by releasing video evidence before the trial even starts?

Because trials don't really happen for solicitation cases one, and two, the motive here isn't to win a trial.

 

[Antdawg]

A lot of those arrests come from sting operations; i.e. a police officer poses as a prostitute (or a john) and says "this person solicited me for sex." Other are actually caught in the act at the moment it takes place. There are light years of difference between those situations and getting evidence when the sex act is taking place behind closed doors in a business establishment where the obvious defense is going to be "hey, nothing happened beyond a massage."

I agree the release of the video is unnecessary and I doubt it will be officially released. By whether or not it leaks is yet to be determined.

A sexual act taking place behind closed doors doesn't constitute solicitation of prostitution. Solicitation is the crime here. You don't need to video the sex act itself to charge someone or prove that someone solicited prostitution. Whether it occurs on the street or in a massage parlor, you have to prove that money was being offered in return for sexual services. Not that sex occurred. The crime is solicitation, not sodomy.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I agree that the videos are valuable evidence in any trial, but why compromise an investigation by releasing video evidence before the trial even starts? It's terrible procedure to release the video before any trial and to me it smacks of gamesmanship in an attemot to force the defendents to plead guilty or make a plea bargain of some kind.

My conspiracy theory is the do want to manipulate public opinion but not by embarassing the johns but making the Feds look indifferent towards to the issue by sitting on their hands and not picking up the lead on the case while women are exploited and enslaved

 

[QuantumMechanic]

One thing to keep in mind is that Florida has very strong “sunshine” laws. So release of the video likely isn’t about the cops being vindictive as it is that Florida law makes it a public record that has to be released if someone asks for it to be released. This law is, in fact, one of the reasons for all the “Florida man...” memes — under FL law anyone can get lots of details about arrests that you often couldn’t have gotten in other states.

(And that’s what I’ve seen mentioned in several articles talking about the possible release of the video.)