Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[Froob]

Here’s my take ASSUMING what we’ve been presented is accurate and Bob did everything he’s accused of:

I think he should just take responsibility and because I would HOPE he feels badly about inadvertently taking these services from trafficked women he doesn’t fight it and donates to anti trafficking organizations.

I’ll lose respect for Kraft for fighting this when he was on tape paying for it and he now knows that the women were trafficked. I would think he could work out a deal to have the tape destroyed and settle the case and do some good and support anti trafficking.

But I’m no legal expert by any stretch of imagination, I’m just a guy who fixes computers and spends way too much time on the internet arguing about sports.

 

[XLIX]

I find hidden cameras in massage rooms to be a overreach by our law enforcement, I'm a libertarian in many ways and it scares me when organized government organizes like this against citizens for misdemenors.

They didn't do all this to arrest johns, they did it to break up a sex trafficking ring, and sex trafficking is most certainly not a misdemeanor.

So they weren't doing this with the goal of simply busting a few johns, that's just the side effect which happens to be getting a disproportionate amount of attention because one of the johns is pretty darn famous.

 

[Sicilian]

Here’s my take ASSUMING what we’ve been presented is accurate and Bob did everything he’s accused of:

I think he should just take responsibility and because I would HOPE he feels badly about inadvertently taking these services from trafficked women he doesn’t fight it and donates to anti trafficking organizations.

I’ll lose respect for Kraft for fighting this when he was on tape paying for it and he now knows that the women were trafficked. I would think he could work out a deal to have the tape destroyed and settle the case and do some good and support anti trafficking.

But I’m no legal expert by any stretch of imagination, I’m just a guy who fixes computers and spends way too much time on the internet arguing about sports.

I may not love it, but I wouldn't really blame him for fighting it if he has a legal leg to stand on. Where I would lose all respect is if, by him fighting it with his high powered lawyers, he gives the other cases legal ground to dismiss and the whole operation results in the real victims (the women forced to perform these services) getting zero justice. So long as his defense doesn't interfere with bringing this racket down, I leave that judgment on his personal life to him.

 

[Steve102]

So, if they release the video, do we call it Do Your Hand Job?

 

[Chevrolet]

If the goal is to deter sex and trafficking, why doesn't the state government simply make it mandatory to have in each massage room a sign posted that states

"Sexual (non massage) services performed on the premises of this business are illegal and will be prosecuted"

 

[Froob]

I may not love it, but I wouldn't really blame him for fighting it if he has a legal leg to stand on. Where I would lose all respect is if, by him fighting it with his high powered lawyers, he gives the other cases legal ground to dismiss and the whole operation results in the real victims (the women forced to perform these services) getting zero justice. So long as his defense doesn't interfere with bringing this racket down, I leave that judgment on his personal life to him.

That’s fair. I’m just trying to put myself in his shoes and feel really ****ty for recieveing these acts from slaves even if I didn’t know. Hell he can write off the donation even, just take the opportunity to do something good.

 

[XLIX]

If an escort paid for her "time" and sex "just so happens to occur" with no particular acts negotiated for money, then it is LEGAL.

When it comes to prostitution and/or paid escorts, that's the oldest defense in the book - and it's not a particularly strong one.

I am not saying that line of defense never works, I'm just saying it's not really that strong.

 

[Froob]

If the goal is to deter sex and trafficking, why doesn't the state government simply make it mandatory to have in each massage room a sign posted that states

"Sexual (non massage) services performed on the premises of this business are illegal and will be prosecuted"

Kinda goes without saying, doesn’t it? But we do have caution hot on coffee cups now lol..

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

both.

https://htv-prod-media.s3.amazonaws.com/files/kraft-pc-affidavit-redacted-1551125662.pdf

read last page.

im still curious on what grounds the traffic stop was made and why RK had/decided to show licence. seems like that was what they used to id people?

The stop seemed to be a pretext to get evidence of an unrelated crime. I remember there was quite a bit conflicting caselaw on whether "pretext stops" are consistent with the 4th amendment but I haven't followed this issue for many years (and well before the era of 9/11 and the TSA ).

 

[FirstAndGoal]

You don't file to block video if you're not afraid what it will show. If it's not you, then you say "show it". Legally, he's fighting a couple misdemeanors. What he's effectively trying to do is to prevent the release of video. I suspect a deal where he pleads no contest and the video remains unreleased (until TMZ gets it).

 

[QuantumMechanic]

There may well be no deal he can possibly make re: the video. I've read a couple of articles that say the Florida public records law requires it to be released unless Kraft can convince a judge that the warrant to install the cameras was faulty.

 

[fnordcircle]

'No Allegations of Human Trafficking' and 'Women Could've Walked Out' In Florida Massage-Parlor Prostitution Stings

Reason.com is making the case that there was no sex trafficking. But it's reason.com.

 

[JJC]

Just think about how they would go about doing that legally. Just think about it.

So, the ends justify the means to you?

 

[Tb12goesinya]

When it comes to prostitution and/or paid escorts, that's the oldest defense in the book - and it's not a particularly strong one.

I am not saying that line of defense never works, I'm just saying it's not really that strong.

You're talking about it being a line of defense and interpretation. I'm talking about it being the law. Any judge to convict would need proof of sex act/money discussion, exchange, negotiation etc. Any other grounds of conviction would be based off morality/ethical purposes or grandstanding for a larger purpose thus circumventing the law. It's like blowing .079 vs .08 and expecting same exact law to apply. I know it's BS, I'm a moral ethical person for the most part, but the law is the law.

 

[Sicilian]

'No Allegations of Human Trafficking' and 'Women Could've Walked Out' In Florida Massage-Parlor Prostitution Stings

Reason.com is making the case that there was no sex trafficking. But it's reason.com.

I've never heard of reason.com. Do they have a specific reputation, or were you just commenting that it's a no-name source?

 

[Ring 6]

If an escort paid for her "time" and sex "just so happens to occur" with no particular acts negotiated for money, then it is LEGAL.

No

It's semantics, and it is the law.

No it’s an argument used as an attempt to circumvent the law by technicality.

That is why a not guilty plea is obvious, because he didn't solicite.

Of course he did.

Call it ******** or whatever. Just like a 17 and 364 day girls would be rape, but hours later no problemo. It's semantics and ******** some of the time but this is the social contract.

No, it’s the law. Laws are precise and that is for a reason.

 

[Ring 6]

You're talking about it being a line of defense and interpretation. I'm talking about it being the law. Any judge to convict would need proof of sex act/money discussion, exchange, negotiation etc. Any other grounds of conviction would be based off morality/ethical purposes or grandstanding for a larger purpose thus circumventing the law. It's like blowing .079 vs .08 and expecting same exact law to apply. I know it's BS, I'm a moral ethical person for the most part, but the law is the law.

What in the world are you talking about?
Any crime needs proof.

You just in one breath argued that almost 18 should be ok and in the next that almost drunk shouldn’t.

You have most everything on this topic wrong.

 

[Tb12goesinya]

No


No it’s an argument used as an attempt to circumvent the law by technicality.



Of course he did.



No, it’s the law. Laws are precise and that is for a reason.

So a guy hires a LEGAL escort and didn't really want sex, just a date or whatever. Then, they have some ****tails and get along great, if they have sex is it illegal???

 

[Ring 6]

If the goal is to deter sex and trafficking, why doesn't the state government simply make it mandatory to have in each massage room a sign posted that states

"Sexual (non massage) services performed on the premises of this business are illegal and will be prosecuted"

Lol

 

[Tb12goesinya]

What in the world are you talking about?
Any crime needs proof.

You just in one breath argued that almost 18 should be ok and in the next that almost drunk shouldn’t.

You have most everything on this topic wrong.

It's a larger point that you are misinterpreting.