Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[lancerman]

1. The Jupiter PD.
2. No one else.

Idk. Eagles fans seem to have a thing. Big **** Bob has a nice ring to it.

 

[venecol]

So when the florida department of health filed a complaint with the PD that all appearance were that sex acts to the tune of 15,000 customers per year were being performed on the premises, that bodily fluids were found in the trash, that the foreign female employees slept there on the massage tables, cooked on the backs steps never left and had no form of transportation what would the police do in your world? Ignore it?

Thanks for bringing up another lie by the Sheriff. He claimed the workers were forced to perform sex acts of up to 16 per day. Yet in 5 days of video taping the spa they had 25 arrests. Now I'm not good at math but let me see, that's about 5 per day, divided by 4 employees so maybe 1 or 2 per day per worker? Wow that's a large difference from 16 per day.

There were false claims about women not allowed to leave that Sheriff had to walk back as they were seen walking freely around the shopping center.

It is a fact that sex workers travel to different venues and sleep in the establishments out of convenience. Having women stay there is not proof of anything certainly not human trafficking.

But if you did want to prove human trafficking, why install cameras in the rooms instead of office or areas where you could capture interactions between workers and traffickers? That seems curious no? Prostitution was already established there was no need for the cameras.

Finally, if they in fact suspected trafficking it implies these women were slaves, kidnapped, and abused, raped in fact on a daily basis. Why if they already knew there was prostitution going on (rape really) did your heroes in blue take 5 months and do nothing, worse sit for 5 days watching these women get repeatedly raped! Honestly when you put it that way that sounds criminal what they allowed to do.

Only a f**king moron buys into this lala land story of human trafficking. Carry on gomer.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Why do I have the feeling they knew Bob Kraft was a customer there and they just happened to have the cameras in use when they knew he was in town? I suppose it could be a coincidence but something smells here.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Thanks for bringing up another lie by the Sheriff. He claimed the workers were forced to perform sex acts of up to 16 per day. Yet in 5 days of video taping the spa they had 25 arrests. Now I'm not good at math but let me see, that's about 5 per day, divided by 4 employees so maybe 1 or 2 per day per worker? Wow that's a large difference from 16 per day.

There were false claims about women not allowed to leave that Sheriff had to walk back as they were seen walking freely around the shopping center.

It is a fact that sex workers travel to different venues and sleep in the establishments out of convenience. Having women stay there is not proof of anything certainly not human trafficking.

But if you did want to prove human trafficking, why install cameras in the rooms instead of office or areas where you could capture interactions between workers and traffickers? That seems curious no? Prostitution was already established there was no need for the cameras.

Finally, if they in fact suspected trafficking it implies these women were slaves, kidnapped, and abused, raped in fact on a daily basis. Why if they already knew there was prostitution going on (rape really) did your heroes in blue take 5 months and do nothing, worse sit for 5 days watching these women get repeatedly raped! Honestly when you put it that way that sounds criminal what they allowed to do.

Only a f**king moron buys into this lala land story of human trafficking. Carry on gomer.

I’ll just add a

!

to this. I’ve had enough of this for awhile. Looking forward to seeing the backpedaling when it becomes apparent to everyone that the police are the ones who should hiring lawyers right now.

 

[maust]

I'm going to guess that you're a moron.

Did I get lucky?

'Lucky' perhaps but a more accurate guess might make use of words like obdurate, intractable or hairspitter. My impression would run more along the lines of unintentionally but hysterically entertaining yutz. Understanding, of course, YMMV

 

[venecol]

Can you actually read? It does not say they were intended for terrorism it says that was a popular use of them. Jesus.


This is what you said.

They didn’t use a warrant used for terrorism. They used a warrant granted specifically for this investigation. That warrant authorized a method of surveillance that is popular in terrorism cases.

There is a world of difference between those 2 statements.

Yours says the searches based upon a warrant issued for terrorism, the truth is starkly different.

And I can accept that you did a poor job of explaining what you were trying to say which led to the mischaracterizatuon but I’m afraid you lack the ability to admit that and will
gonin am aggressive, insulting tirade because you just won’t be honest about it.

Wow you are really dense man. The type of warrant they used "sneak and peak" were intended for terrorism cases under the Patriot Act. It is extremely "rare" like in never used for prostitution cases. You are either dumb as a rock or too into your own little world of fantasy not to realize the obvious. But you go ahead and wait for your proof and then change your tune once the facts come out so you feel better about yourself.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

So proven wrong you take a shot at a personal attack. Very weak of you.

You have called people stupid on here countless times......

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Why do I have the feeling they knew Bob Kraft was a customer there and they just happened to have the cameras in use when they knew he was in town? I suppose it could be a coincidence but something smells here.

You’re not the only one who suspects this. I’ve just tried to pick my arguments here, but this is the best, most simple explanation for everything. A ruse warrant to videotape Kraft. Most of us don’t believe in coincidences like this: some ind of insane Orwellian scenario pops up where videos of live prostitution crimes will be released online and one of the 25 people (out of 15,000 johns for the year) just happened to be the owner of the most hated football rival of the state visiting during that time period. And it turned out the actual reason for the warrant was BS.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

No way it's 15,000 a year. Sounds like a couple a day. By women near menopause holding green cards and who have lived in Florida for 15 years

But I understand it's better as a tagline to say trafficking.

.

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

Kraft has been a truly great owner. He has brought so much joy and pride to this city. He deserves much credit and accolades for his owner accomplishments.
As a person I don’t think very highly of him. Not long after his wife had passed he was prancing around with a thirty year old. Their had been rumors he was with the thirty year old while she was still alive. I will leave rumors where they belong and just base my opinion of him on not allowing her grave to set before the not so good look. He has that right but to me a bad look.
Now when he gets caught with his Nilly in the cookie jar he uses his wife as the sympathy card.
Sorry Bobby. Sympathy in the dictionary and in this case sits between Sperm and Syphilis

 

[Ring 6]

Thanks for bringing up another lie by the Sheriff. He claimed the workers were forced to perform sex acts of up to 16 per day. Yet in 5 days of video taping the spa they had 25 arrests. Now I'm not good at math but let me see, that's about 5 per day, divided by 4 employees so maybe 1 or 2 per day per worker? Wow that's a large difference from 16 per day.

Again playing fast and loose with the truth. His comment was 8-15 a day.
Of course you don’t care about facts since we have no idea
A) what percentage of those they had sex with were arrested
B) how many were repeat customers like kraft
C) his many days that covers

Of course you ignore the main point here which is the police department was reacting to a complaint from the DOH that describes indentured prostitution pretty clearly.
But it was just a ruse to catch kraft right?

There were false claims about women not allowed to leave that Sheriff had to walk back as they were seen walking freely around the shopping center.

The department of health reported that. Since you seem to misrepresent everything please show me where he “walked it back”

It is a fact that sex workers travel to different venues and sleep in the establishments out of convenience. Having women stay there is not proof of anything certainly not human trafficking.

Huh? They choose to sleep on the massage tables they jerk guys off in and not have a home?

But if you did want to prove human trafficking, why install cameras in the rooms instead of office or areas where you could capture interactions between workers and traffickers? That seems curious no? Prostitution was already established there was no need for the cameras.

You seem to think you are aware of the entire investigation and everything they did and think placing ca etas was all they did. You are wrong. The cases in other countries spawned from this one, they have traced millions back to China, they have made at least one trafficking arrest and they are still investigating. You know about 1% of the story. It is beyond ignorant to know 1% of the story and say “I know they were wrong because I don’t know they did x,y,z”

Finally, if they in fact suspected trafficking it implies these women were slaves, kidnapped, and abused, raped in fact on a daily basis.

No it doesn’t. It implies they were sent there against their will.
And it is a fact that trafficking was suspected because the DOH reported it to the PD who told a judge who issued a warrant.
Are you honestly telling me everyone involved is lying and they decided to lie to get a warrant that would be invalidated by the lie and then decided to arrest a billionaire who would stop at nothing to challenge the warrant that they know they lied to get and won’t hold up? There is zero critical thinking involved in you coming to that conclusion.

Why if they already knew there was prostitution going on (rape really) did your heroes in blue take 5 months and do nothing, worse sit for 5 days watching these women get repeatedly raped! Honestly when you put it that way that sounds criminal what they allowed to do.

There is no way to answer the process of he investigation without knowing the facts.
I dispute your facts are accurate and so far they have not been each time I have.

Only a f**king moron buys into this lala land story of human trafficking. Carry on gomer.

Everyone involved “bought into it” and there have been arrests and money seized that backs of up.
But yeah the department of health are a bunch of liars who hate bob kraft and set all this up to frame him.

 

[RobertWeathers]

They’re nihilists dude

@robertweathers

Nihilists are problematic for Kraft as they would threaten to cut off his Johnson.

 

[lancerman]

It's nice knowing that some Puritans still exist in New England. SMH

 

[Ring 6]

No way it's 15,000 a year. Sounds like a couple a day. By women near menopause holding green cards and who have lived in Florida for 15 years

But I understand it's better as a tagline to say trafficking.

.

Thanks. Can you fill me in on a few things because you seem to know more than me about this.
How many girls worked in this place and did sex acts for money?
Where did the department of health make a mistake in there estimate of 15,000 per year that you have discovered is wrong?
Why was it called trafficking BEFORE they started the investigation if it’s only a tag line to make what they found sound better?

 

[Ring 6]

Why do I have the feeling they knew Bob Kraft was a customer there and they just happened to have the cameras in use when they knew he was in town? I suppose it could be a coincidence but something smells here.

Right the Florida Department of Health has a grudge against kraft.

 

[Biffins]

Its finally starting to dawn on me how the Patriot Act keeps on getting extended even 18 years after 9/11, there's an overwhelming amount of dumb azzes in this country.

Wow just amazing how people actually welcome cops installing cameras surreptitiously in private properties that allow them to monitor and observe innocent people that have an expectation of privacy. Next they will investigate escort services and install cameras in the homes of suspected johns.

It's actually worse than that. The police say they installed the cameras because they believe the women were sex-slaves and were being trafficked and were trapped in the building.

So in effect for 5 days they saw these women being raped again and again and again..........?!?!? Why did they not barge in and stop this crime the first time they observed it. What further "evidence" was required for building the case. Where's the moral compulsion to stop a wrong from taking place. What were the police thinking recording and monitoring videos in which THEY BELIEVED these women were being raped. And if they didn't believe that (that they were sex-trafficking and were sex-slaves) then why were they recording in the first place.

I think the police are in trouble on this one.

 

[Ring 6]

Wow you are really dense man. The type of warrant they used "sneak and peak" were intended for terrorism cases under the Patriot Act.

That is completely not true. An you read.
You linked the article yourself (quoting anti police people btw) which said this kind of INVESTIGATIVE TECHNIQUE became popular in terrorism cases. It did not say it was INTENDED FOR and they are talking about the TACTIC not the warrant. It is t a type of warrant. Jesus. Now I have to explain the things you quote to you.

It is extremely "rare" like in never used for prostitution cases. You are either dumb as a rock or too into your own little world of fantasy not to realize the obvious. But you go ahead and wait for your proof and then change your tune once the facts come out so you feel better about yourself.

This wasn’t a prostitution case it was a human trafficking case.

 

[Biffins]

Can you actually read? It does not say they were intended for terrorism it says that was a popular use of them. Jesus.


This is what you said.

They didn’t use a warrant used for terrorism. They used a warrant granted specifically for this investigation. That warrant authorized a method of surveillance that is popular in terrorism cases.

There is a world of difference between those 2 statements.

Yours says the searches based upon a warrant issued for terrorism, the truth is starkly different.

And I can accept that you did a poor job of explaining what you were trying to say which led to the mischaracterizatuon but I’m afraid you lack the ability to admit that and will
gonin am aggressive, insulting tirade because you just won’t be honest about it.

Dude. You're wrong. Yes a popular use of them was for terrorist attacks and the police didn't break a law, just convention, when they used them in this instance. But the law takes the principle, and not just the rule, under consideration. This is a provision of the Patriot Act. This law was designed and made to be used for anti-terrorist activities. The law doesn't specifically state that this provision cannot be used for other crimes but that's been the understanding and the police broke convention by abusing this. Now on appeal a court can very well determine the police were going against the intent of the Patriot Act and hence abused the law. Yes it means the police aren't going to jail, since they were technically in their right, but the case could very well get thrown out and the law altered to prevent this abuse in the future.

Intent very much matters.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Right the Florida Department of Health has a grudge against kraft.

If they were tipped off that Kraft got "massages" there and that he was going to be in town. Nabbing a big name like that would be the collar of a lifetime for these guys. Andy you've dug in way to deep to be objective.

 

[Ring 6]

Let’s add some facts to this shot from the hip thread.

SNYDER: Well, that's one of the reasons why this sex trafficking continues at such a pace. Invariably, our methodology has been up until we did this here - send a couple of undercover detectives in. They'll be solicited for sex, will arrest the workers and shut the place down. And the problem goes away, but not really goes away.

And so when this came in, I made the decision that we would treat this differently and that we would go after the traffickers and the men, the end users. And that's why we were so successful, and we have over 300 arrest warrants.

KELLY: What happens to the women now, do you know?

SNYDER: Well, as you and I speak, one of the women that's here, we're treating her as a victim. She's in protective custody. She said that she was offered a job making a lot of money in America in a nail salon. And before she knew it, she came here and found herself in the sex trafficking industry in massage parlors.

We have NGOs helping us along with Mandarin-speaking interpreters, and we're doing our very best to try to get these women some kind of help. You alluded to it earlier, and it's true, they tend not to want to cooperate because of the coercion point. And oftentimes, and this woman said it, she feels that her family in China is at risk if she cooperates with law enforcement.

KELLY: Is that what you mean when you say the coercion point?

SNYDER: Yeah. You know, to try to understand it, what is it that causes a woman to stay in these deplorable conditions where they're having sex with eight to 15 men a day and with absolutely no protection? The doors are not locked. You know, there's no one guarding them at night. We've had cases where they come over with their children and the children are being educated, but the cost is the mother is taken into trafficking.




Nah, totally fabricated, nothing going in here