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John Clayton having trouble with reality


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Is John Clayton a liar


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I love that people are using Wikipedia to fight back against these slime balls who are intentionally publishing lies.

Right....because Wikipedia was so highly respected to begin with--LOL.

The fact that anyone can easily go in and add/subtract to it pretty much tells you all you need to know! That is precisely why no one even begins to consider it a reputable source. It's worse than "Yahoo sports" or Pro Football Focus is considered around here.

They don't even allow students to use wikipedia as a citation/source in undergrad--and those are the kids coming out of high school.
 
BUT...WIKI is very useful to PROVE that certain well known sports figures,Roger Goodell e.g., have their entries EDITED post facto in attempts to twist and conceal the TRUTH.
 
They're still hatin', We're STILL WINNING!
That's a good one. You should copyright that, put it on a shirt with the Pats logo and sell them. I'd buy the first one. XL please!

Fixed it for ya too!
 
I'm still waiting for John Clayton to connect the dots between Bill Belichick and the disappearance of Jimmy Hoffa. That ought to cost the Patriots a draft choice or two, and will definitely earn Bill Belichick a suspension.

http://www.history.com/news/history-lists/9-places-jimmy-hoffa-probably-isnt-buried
Any possible connection between BB and Hoffa's disappearance was debunked when Old Giants Stadium was demolished in 2010 and the end zones were excavated. You'd have better luck linking BB with D. B. Cooper.
 
Right....because Wikipedia was so highly respected to begin with--LOL.

The fact that anyone can easily go in and add/subtract to it pretty much tells you all you need to know! That is precisely why no one even begins to consider it a reputable source. It's worse than "Yahoo sports" or Pro Football Focus is considered around here.

They don't even allow students to use wikipedia as a citation/source in undergrad--and those are the kids coming out of high school.

When I was a paid blogger for Computerworld, I had a disagreement with the online editor. He cited Wikipedia in his defense, saying he regarded it as dispositive (his word). I made edits to correct the Wikipedia article he was citing. He then changed his stance, and circulated an email to the other bloggers about his new opinion, citing Wikipedia.

I was fired as a blogger there a few months later, over an unrelated matter of ethics -- I criticized his, and he took it badly.

I've done something similar in forum arguments once or twice -- a guy cites Wikipedia, so I edit the article and tell him to look again.
 
I agree, In fact Clayton actually agreed with us as well.... Until he needed a story then he changed his tune.

Clayton went from claiming:

http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=3394586&src=desktop&wjb

to

http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=7639644&src=desktop&wjb

So first the punishment is too harsh, then in an article called "Saints bounty story worse than Spygate" the punishment miraculously becomes not harsh enough.

Then he writes another article that says Goodell is being inconsistent for the different punishments even though he wrote himself the punishments should be different.

The guy is world class dirt bag, he just changes his story and facts with the wind to go against whoever he feels like smearing.

That's remarkable. I've always considered Clayton worthless, but now it seems he's not even worth that.

It was odd that his induction into the HOF was so celebrated. If I were a reporter, I'd be embarrassed that the criteria for enshrinement is apparently, "did he hold a job for 35 years?" because even the most charitable view of John doesn't offer much more than that.
 
Love the poll. Just like the media's assumptions about the Patriots...Are they guilty of [fill in the blank]? Yes? or Definitely?
 
I got it now. It was:
The guy in the bathroom.
With the Video Camera.
On the Grassy Knoll.
 
ESPN doesn't care about legitimacy; they care about ratings.

It's a gossip show for men.
*True, but we as the virtue of truth can't just sit by and let these misgivings pass into the echoes of history, we must fight against the tide of hate!*
*Gandalf voice*
 
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The general ignorance of the media and fans when it comes to the issue of "spygate" and "deflategate" boggles my mind, and we see it perfectly encapsulated with this example of BS from John Clayton, who coincidently lives in Seattle. .....and now here comes the rant....

I hate the term "spygate". In and of itself that term is a misnomer. DI used the term "cameraplacementgate", or something like that, in a post a while back, and I thought it was a FAR more accurate phrase to describe the events of 2007. IMHO, we should no longer allow "spygate" to be used, and encourage "cameraplacementgate". THEN maybe more people will actually understand exactly what happen.

I would not long allow any hater imply that any of our titles are tainted WITHOUT having them explain how a punishment that occurred in 2007 could have an effect in 2001,03, and 2004. Far too many mediots and fans either don't know or understand that the 2 events didn't happen at the same time.

I would not allow any hater to imply any of our titles are tainted until he proved he actually understood what the Pats did to incur that punishment. 90% of those idiots firmly believe that trying to steal signs was illegal and taping them was as well. Almost as many believe we were caught taping practices, etc. The rest are just pricks who know better but just want to piss off Pats fans and see them react.

The fact is that most people really don't know what happened in "camerplacementgate", and that includes most of the media. I honestly believe that a concerted PR effort needs to be started by the Patriots to make the actual facts known. If you want to hate the Pats for their arrogance, fine. They WERE being arrogant when they continued to tape from the field, but what the did was NOT gaining them an unfair advantage and therefore NOT cheating. There were a dozen other ways they could have gathered the exact same information LEGALLY, just not as efficiently. THAT's why BB thought the memo was ridiculous, and in his own arrogance chose to ignore it. The memo itself truly was stupid, but that 's not the point.

But here is the real problem IMO. In the last few days, I saw an ESPN panel discussion on who has the greatest dynasty the Pats or SF. There was a good back and forth going on between defenders on both sides, as there should be because there are legit arguments for both positions. But right at the end, one of the panelists mentioned "cameraplacementgate" and "deflategate", and intimated that you have to keep in mind when you have this debate "where there is smoke there is fire".

Now I honestly believe his guy wasn't being a hater. He was just feeding into the myth that has been allowed to become common knowledge. If you tell a lie often enough, it becomes the truth, and that is what's happened with "cameraplacementgate", and will soon happen to "deflategate" if nothing proactive is done. The 2 Denver titles exist only because they cheated on the cap. Where is the outrage, and what is being done to make THEM pay in the arena of public opinion. What about the Niner and Cowboy transactions.

Not only does this need to be done regarding "cameraplacementgate", the Pats should DEMAND that the deflategate witchhunt be completed in days not months. There is NO need for it to take longer than that. And when it is, the League and the media needs to spend just as much time and effort rehabilitating the Pats reputation, as they did when they were eagerly tearing it down. Feet have to be held to the fire. They NEED to be held to the fire

......and so the rant ends
 
Not only does this need to be done regarding "cameraplacementgate", the Pats should DEMAND that the deflategate witchhunt be completed in days not months. There is NO need for it to take longer than that. And when it is, the League and the media needs to spend just as much time and effort rehabilitating the Pats reputation, as they did when they were eagerly tearing it down. Feet have to be held to the fire. They NEED to be held to the fire

......and so the rant ends

How? Maybe if there was a thread started by you Ken that could inspire others to contribute similar opinions and if someone had access to the front office, maybe they would be influenced to fight much harder than last time with "CameraplacementGate" after reading our opinions. (If any folks here remember the epic thread "Win it For" on the Red Sox site, Sons of Sam Horn, it is a great model of an impassioned plea that "caught fire" and was eventually made into a book. Easily the best thread on a message board I have ever been a part of.)
 
How? Maybe if there was a thread started by you Ken that could inspire others to contribute similar opinions and if someone had access to the front office, maybe they would be influenced to fight much harder than last time with "CameraplacementGate" after reading our opinions. (If any folks here remember the epic thread "Win it For" on the Red Sox site, Sons of Sam Horn, it is a great model of an impassioned plea that "caught fire" and was eventually made into a book. Easily the best thread on a message board I have ever been a part of.)
Bob Kraft and BB dropped the ball on cameraplacementgate seven years ago by staying mum and allowing public (hater) perception to overtake reality. They should have called press conference(s) to address it then, just like they did with the deflategate nonsense. Any credible book on the subject would REQUIRE candid interviews with BB, Kraft, Goodell, Mangini, Walsh, Tomase and the Herald's then-managing editor -- plus others for context, such as Tagliabue, Bill Cowher, Jimmy Johnson, Marshall Faulk, Kurt Warner, etc. Never going to happen, as much as I'd love to see it.
 
Bob Kraft and BB dropped the ball on cameraplacementgate seven years ago by staying mum and allowing public (hater) perception to overtake reality. They should have called press conference(s) to address it then, just like they did with the deflategate nonsense. Any credible book on the subject would REQUIRE candid interviews with BB, Kraft, Goodell, Mangini, Walsh, Tomase and the Herald's then-managing editor -- plus others for context, such as Tagliabue, Bill Cowher, Jimmy Johnson, Marshall Faulk, Kurt Warner, etc. Never going to happen, as much as I'd love to see it.
You are dead on with what SHOULD have happened, Phil. NOW there should be a proactive plan of action to combat the current slander, and minimize the impact of the errors of the past. There has to be a few PR types on this board who can outline a systematic plan of attack. And make no mistake about it, a SYSTEMATIC plan of attack is what should be implemented, nothing haphazard. This would be the best time to do it. People actually ARE starting to understand that deflategate was a ruse. People ARE starting to appreciate what the Pats have accomplished and why. THIS is a window of opportunity, and they shouldn't let it pass.

I don't want to see us sit back and wait months for the Wells report to come in. We know from past experience that by then it won't matter if we are vindicated or not, the damage will have already been done. It's nice to think that the League and media would spend as much time rehabbing the Pats' reputation as it did trying to tear it down, but we both know that isn't going to happen. We both know that the individuals who are responsible will for the starting the scandal and falsely perpetuating it in the media (like Clayton) will never be held accountable.....UNLESS we do it ourselves. That's a fact.

You are a brilliant guy, and there are a lot of guys like you on this site, people with influence and people who know people. IS there something that we can do? Shouldn't a thread be started to talk about some specific proactive ideas can be raised. I won't start it but I have a name "The Patriots Defense Alliance " I nominate you, Fencer, Ian and Bob to the executive committee. I would be willing to participate, but only if food is being served. ;)

If we came up with some solid and realistic ideas, Fencer would know a way to start to infect the media with the truth and accountability. Ian would know how to get all the other Pats boards involved, because this isn't just about us. I wouldn't be surprised if local guys like Holley, Reiss, and Curran would support us. I mean it's mid February. All we have to do right now is keep soaking in "the win" and spend hours speculating about draft picks that will never happen. THIS would be a project that would not only fill our time, but be important as well.

Calhoun was right, its time we ACTUALLY do something instead of just complaining about the injustice. What's the old adage -"evil can only exist when good men take no action"....or something like that. It would be a lot more fun than just fighting off the haters for the next decade.
 
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I sent this out to a local Boston reporter and they sent an email back saying will use some of it on a project they are already doing on Spygate.

So maybe it gets out there to a wider audience.
 
You are dead on with what SHOULD have happened, Phil. NOW there should be a proactive plan of action to combat the current slander, and minimize the impact of the errors of the past. There has to be a few PR types on this board who can outline a systematic plan of attack. And make no mistake about it, a SYSTEMATIC plan of attack is what should be implemented, nothing haphazard. This would be the best time to do it. People actually ARE starting to understand that deflategate was a ruse. People ARE starting to appreciate what the Pats have accomplished and why. THIS is a window of opportunity, and they shouldn't let it pass.

I don't want to see us sit back and wait months for the Wells report to come in. We know from past experience that by then it won't matter if we are vindicated or not, the damage will have already been done. It's nice to think that the League and media would spend as much time rehabbing the Pats' reputation as it did trying to tear it down, but we both know that isn't going to happen. We both know that the individuals who are responsible will for the starting the scandal and falsely perpetuating it in the media (like Clayton) will never be held accountable.....UNLESS we do it ourselves. That's a fact.

You are a brilliant guy, and there are a lot of guys like you on this site, people with influence and people who know people. IS there something that we can do? Shouldn't a thread be started to talk about some specific proactive ideas can be raised. I won't start it but I have a name "The Patriots Defense Alliance " I nominate you, Fencer, Ian and Bob to the executive committee. I would be willing to participate, but only if food is being served. ;)

If we came up with some solid and realistic ideas, Fencer would know a way to start to infect the media with the truth and accountability. Ian would know how to get all the other Pats boards involved, because this isn't just about us. I wouldn't be surprised if local guys like Holley, Reiss, and Curran would support us. I mean it's mid February. All we have to do right now is keep soaking in "the win" and spend hours speculating about draft picks that will never happen. THIS would be a project that would not only fill our time, but be important as well.

Calhoun was right, its time we ACTUALLY do something instead of just complaining about the injustice. What's the old adage -"evil can only exist when good men take no action"....or something like that. It would be a lot more fun than just fighting off the haters for the next decade.
Ken, my name isn't Phil but thanks anyway for the kind words. :)

I believe years ago there was a sticky here (or link to an off-site web page) on cameragate that had the league rule verbatim and specified how its wording included a loophole allowing BB's action -- or at least leaving his alleged "violation" open to plausible interpretation. Perhaps Ian recalls this and can recover it. That would be a start. I'm just concerned that anything short of the principals "coming clean" (which we agree they should've done from the outset) will fall on deaf ears as biased fans sounding off.

What we CAN do is draft a letter from the thousands of us at Patsfans.com to Bob Kraft detailing our concerns and cc the letter to local sports media outlets. That might provoke some sort of response from the Patriots if folks like Holly, Reiss and Curran take interest enough to follow up with them. But again, I suspect the Krafts have reason not to resurrect this thing so many years after the fact, especially with deflategate still a current matter. Could be that the horse is just too far out of the barn.
 
Ken, my name isn't Phil but thanks anyway for the kind words. :)

I believe years ago there was a sticky here (or link to an off-site web page) on cameragate that had the league rule verbatim and how its wording included a loophole allowing BB's action -- or at least leaving his alleged "violation" open to plausible interpretation. Perhaps Ian recalls this and can recover it. That would be a start. I'm just concerned that anything short of the principals "coming clean" (which we agree they should've done from the outset) will fall on deaf ears as biased fans sounding off.

What we CAN do is draft a letter from the thousands of us at Patsfans.com to Bob Kraft detailing our concerns and cc the letter to local sports media outlets. That might provoke some sort of response from the Patriots if folks like Holly, Reiss and Curran take interest enough to follow up with them. But again, I suspect the Krafts have reason not to resurrect this thing so many years after the fact, especially with deflategate still a current matter. Could be that the horse is just too far out of the barn.

The "Game Operations Manual" states that "no video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?id=3017542


But Cameraplacementgate is a battle that's already been lost.
 
ahem...I already AM doing something about it, Ken.

The key to everything is Kensil. He is the green rat in the cheese factory.
 
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?id=3017542


But Cameraplacementgate is a battle that's already been lost.
No, it hasn't been lost. The battle was never really started. What you've linked has only a partial summary of the rule. Here is the necessary info:

http://ryan-sawtelle.squarespace.co...son-you-hate-the-patriots-is-because-they-win

Ray Anderson, the NFL head of game operations, sent out a memo to all teams that read:

“Videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent’s offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches’ booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game.”
That’s great, Ray. But your memo isn’t the rule; The one that’s stated in the rulebook; The one that must be voted on by the teams. Pages A105-A106 of the league’s Policy Manual for Member Clubs Volume II: Game Operations 2007 edition: Miscellaneous Rules and Regulations, Section A. reads:

“No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches’ booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game.”
The ACTUAL rule says nothing about recording offensive or defensive signals and moreover says filming isn’t allowed from the “field” (interpreted as helmet cams, etc) - NOT the “sideline” as Anderson would write.

Yes. Ray Anderson misquoted the rules. But Anderson’s new rule must be ratified by at least 75% of the team owners. This goes for rule changes. Does Goodell, Anderson, et al have the right to adjust the rules on the fly as they deem fit without team ratification? Apparently so.

Belichick argued Article IX of the NFL Constitution and By-laws which reads:

“Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game.”
This states that the use of any sort of taped information is illegal for use during the game THAT day. Belichick argued that his filming was never used for THAT day (which was later corroborated by the video tech and Goodell).

The NFL cited the memo's misquoted rules instead of the ACTUAL rules when it made its accusations and subsequent punishment against the Patriots.

Filming opponent’s signals was never illegal –and wasn’t even after the Patriots did it. (In 2008, defensive captains were allowed helmet communication to the sidelines - same as quarterbacks.)

The rules do not matter. Goodell and his office specifically told the teams NOT to do it – and that evil, insubordinate Belichick decided that he would stick to the rulebook – you know, the actual rule - and Goodell took that as a slap in the face to his authority.

It was a battle of egos.

That’s your “Spygate.”

That’s what this entire circus was about.
 
That's a good one. You should copyright that, put it on a shirt with the Pats logo and sell them. I'd buy the first one. XL please!

Fixed it for ya too!

Sounds Good fourhour, If I do I'll Hook U Up XL.
 
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