Joejuan Williams moving to safety

[Soliel]

There's a group of homers here who slam just about anyone who dares post about a Patriots player or draftee in any way that's not suggestive of that player being a first team All-Pro.

Is it because most of them go all pro? Or only some like on other teams?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

why? Based on his college tape, he was always going to be a safety if he plays physical enough.

I am not really an Xs and Os guy, but didn't we play a lot of Cover 0 last year? Most in the league? That means no safety help is my understanding. Therefore D McCourty was a CB when we go Cover 0. So if Williams is a safety, he also has to be a CB at times. I do not think there is ever a game when a player is only a safety.

BB likes to redshirt rookies, even the good ones. Harris, Williams, Cowart were all pretty much redshirted. I do not think that reflects on their talent, just BB's philosophy. So the Pats taught Williams how to cover last year while redshirting him, and moved him to safety this year. No reflection on his talent yet.

Will be interesting this year because I do not think BB can redshirt the rookie LBs or TEs. We need them to play because we do not have anyone else. But it goes against BB's philosophy, so we will see. Winovich played quite a bit last year, so BB does let some rookies play.

We also discussed the 3 and 4 safety defense against 3 TEs like the Ravens and Bucs who both have 3 capable TEs. With Williams, McCourty, Phillips and Dugger we have the flexibility. Chung is back next year but you have to plan for at least 1 injury. So the 3 or 4 safety formation will be fun to watch for to cover the multiple TE formations (maybe with a RB too), and counter the RPO.

 

[Deus Irae]

Is it because most of them go all pro? Or only some like on other teams?

Let me just say "Studfeld", and leave it at that

 

[Wozzy]

Devin McCourty was a failure at cornerback... like the time he went to the Pro Bowl as a rookie at corner, or how his twin brother has played corner at a high level for 11 years?

The team had one of the weakest defensive backfields in Belichick's tenure in 2012 so he moved his best athlete to free safety to erase the mistakes of the Sterling Moores of the world.

He was never a failure anywhere they played him, they did what was best for the team.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

Remember Superbowl 49 when 6'5'' Chris Matthews was destroying 5'10'' Kyle Arrington? Once they put 6'4" Brandon Browner on him he disappeared. Joejaun is also 6'4''. Even when he's playing safety, he can always switch around if we're getting burned by a height mismatch. He's just another tool in Bill's toolbox.

nailed it

 

[Patsgofor4]

Devin McCourty was a failure at cornerback... like the time he went to the Pro Bowl as a rookie at corner, or how his twin brother has played corner at a high level for 11 years?

The team had one of the weakest defensive backfields in Belichick's tenure in 2012 so he moved his best athlete to free safety to erase the mistakes of the Sterling Moores of the world.

He was never a failure anywhere they played him, they did what was best for the team.

Failure may be a bit too strong a word but it's very close to the truth. You cannot just re-write NFL history. McCourty was great as a rookie at CB but in his second year he was bad, one of the worst CBs in the league statistically. He played safety in one game late in the season in his second year and played very well. They may have converted him to safety that off-season but their CB crew was bad, so BB had no choice but to keep him at CB. He was marginally better for the first half of his third season but played a big role in their losses against both Seattle and Baltimore. Halfway through the season, Chung (and Gregory) got injured, Arrington and Dennard had emerged and BB traded for Talib at the deadline. If you don't believe me or perhaps you were in a temporary coma for two years, let's go to the record.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2012/11/08/patriots-devin-mccourty-safety-ap



Here is a quote from BB in 2013:

"He’s one of our best-prepared players, both physically and mentally. He has a very good understanding of the overall defense and has gotten more experience at the safety position. He's also worked some at corner."

"He's also worked some at corner" doesn't sound like a rousing endorsement of his player's history at CB.

Finally, using Jason's ability to remain at corner and play at a high level as evidence that Devin didn't fail at CB (I assume because of their identical genetics?) is laugh-out-loud funny.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Williams will be playing safety in jail, at the very least, he is going to get suspended.

 

[borg]

Devin McCourty was a failure at cornerback... like the time he went to the Pro Bowl as a rookie at corner, or how his twin brother has played corner at a high level for 11 years?

The team had one of the weakest defensive backfields in Belichick's tenure in 2012 so he moved his best athlete to free safety to erase the mistakes of the Sterling Moores of the world.

He was never a failure anywhere they played him, they did what was best for the team.

Revisionist fail on an epic level.

McCourty’s 2nd year as CB was perhaps the single worst Pats CB performance this century.
Bill had no choice but to yank McCourty from CB and plop him in deep center field as a last line of defense.

 

[Wozzy]

Failure may be a bit too strong a word but it's very close to the truth. You cannot just re-write NFL history. McCourty was great as a rookie at CB but in his second year he was bad, one of the worst CBs in the league statistically. He played safety in one game late in the season in his second year and played very well. They may have converted him to safety that off-season but their CB crew was bad, so BB had no choice but to keep him at CB. He was marginally better for the first half of his third season but played a big role in their losses against both Seattle and Baltimore. Halfway through the season, Chung (and Gregory) got injured, Arrington and Dennard had emerged and BB traded for Talib at the deadline. If you don't believe me or perhaps you were in a temporary coma for two years, let's go to the record.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2012/11/08/patriots-devin-mccourty-safety-ap

View attachment 28331 View attachment 28333 View attachment 28332

Here is a quote from BB in 2013:

"He’s one of our best-prepared players, both physically and mentally. He has a very good understanding of the overall defense and has gotten more experience at the safety position. He's also worked some at corner."

"He's also worked some at corner" doesn't sound like a rousing endorsement of his player's history at CB.

Finally, using Jason's ability to remain at corner and play at a high level as evidence that Devin didn't fail at CB (I assume because of their identical genetics?) is laugh-out-loud funny.

When you said "here is a quote by Belichick" I assumed it was a quote saying McCourty wasn't a very good corner but he was great at safety... especially considering the three All Pro, two Pro Bowl nods and being named to the All 2010 Decade Patriots team?

Instead there's a quote mentioning how DMC is a smart player, which is exactly why he placed him at Free Safety... to erase mistakes. Not only was he the starting corner, team captain in 2012 but he also the team kick returner.

They acquired Talib so they had the luxury of moving their fastest defensive back to safety, and they needed two considering both starting safeties were hurt. BB has talked about this at length but you can actually read about it on Wikipedia, which doesn't have selective memory suggesting every Belichick draft pick sucks:

"On November 1, 2012, the New England Patriots acquired cornerback Aqib Talib in a trade with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.Following the trade, it was reported that McCourty would be moving to free safety after struggling at cornerback during the first eight games. His move to safety was also attributed to injuries to safeties Steve Gregory and Patrick Chung and the emergence of Kyle Arrington and Alfonzo Dennard as productive cornerbacks. McCourty immediately assumed the job as the starting free safety, replacing Patrick Chung, who was still recovering from a shoulder injury."

McCourty was "a failure" was a fan take on a not very good defense to begin with, and a poor one. When a defense or team isn't particularly good, you don't blame the best players but the worst.

 

[n6249c]

Williams will be playing safety in jail, at the very least, he is going to get suspended.

At most maybe suspended for a game. No jail time. Evidence likely to be thrown out for groundless search. The list of non-script drugs includes an anti-viral used to treat herpes and shingles for crissake. The other was Vicodin. It may turn out he has the scripts but wasn’t carrying them when he got searched for speeding while black. And “large amount” of pot probably means more than a j. Most likely his defense team is moving to quash all the evidence, prosecutor is desperately trying to make something stick despite an unjustified search, and the outcome will be at worst he pleads to possessing a minimal amount of pot. NDB.

 

[Patsgofor4]

When you said "here is a quote by Belichick" I assumed it was a quote saying McCourty wasn't a very good corner but he was great at safety... especially considering the three All Pro, two Pro Bowl nods and being named to the All 2010 Decade Patriots team?

Instead there's a quote mentioning how DMC is a smart player, which is exactly why he placed him at Free Safety... to erase mistakes. Not only was he the starting corner, team captain in 2012 but he also the team kick returner.

They acquired Talib so they had the luxury of moving their fastest defensive back to safety, and they needed two considering both starting safeties were hurt. BB has talked about this at length but you can actually read about it on Wikipedia, which doesn't have selective memory suggesting every Belichick draft pick sucks:

"On November 1, 2012, the New England Patriots acquired cornerback Aqib Talib in a trade with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.Following the trade, it was reported that McCourty would be moving to free safety after struggling at cornerback during the first eight games.[44] His move to safety was also attributed to injuries to safeties Steve Gregory and Patrick Chung and the emergence of Kyle Arrington and Alfonzo Dennard as productive cornerbacks. McCourty immediately assumed the job as the starting free safety, replacing Patrick Chung, who was still recovering from a shoulder injury."

McCourty was "a failure" was a fan take on a not very good defense to begin with, and a poor one. When a defense or team isn't particularly good, you don't blame the best players but the worst.

I love McCourty and he has proven to be one of the all-time greats but if he was viewed by BB a legit starting CB for years to come he would never have been converted to safety. I mentioned the injuries to Gregory and Chung but his poor 2011 season and continued struggles at CB in 2012 played a major role in his conversion to safety. His poor CB play wasn't a "fan take" or even a media take. It was factual and backed up by statistics in 2012 (which you conveniently ignored, like many posters on this board love to do) and by our eyes, as we witnessed several critical mistakes that cost the Pats multiple games during the first half of 2012.

At least answer this: Is giving up the second most yards of any CB in the league an indication of a successful year or a failed year?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

There's a group of homers here who slam just about anyone who dares post about a Patriots player or draftee in any way that's not suggestive of that player being a first team All-Pro.

I'm trying really hard to become more realistic in my draft binkie assessments

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

We traded Harmon for very little so I am thinking BB had an idea how to fill that hole. Williams might have been the plan.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm trying really hard to become more realistic in my draft binkie assessments

 

[A Defiant Goose]

Yes.




And?

Difference is they had an obvious plan for Dmac at CB that obviously didn't work out. You can't really say the same for Williams

 

[Deus Irae]

Difference is they had an obvious plan for Dmac at CB that obviously didn't work out. You can't really say the same for Williams

Why can't I?

 

[A Defiant Goose]

Why can't I?

Because Devin McCourty got an opportunity to start from week 1 and JoeJuan Williams is behind the best CB duo in the league. So I guess my point is, the Patriots clearly had a plan for McCourty to be their top CB whereas with Williams you can't tell if maybe he just lost out to better CBs on the roster (which is not really a knock on him) or if he was drafted with the intent of playing him at safety

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

At most maybe suspended for a game. No jail time. Evidence likely to be thrown out for groundless search. The list of non-script drugs includes an anti-viral used to treat herpes and shingles for crissake. The other was Vicodin. It may turn out he has the scripts but wasn’t carrying them when he got searched for speeding while black. And “large amount” of pot probably means more than a j. Most likely his defense team is moving to quash all the evidence, prosecutor is desperately trying to make something stick despite an unjustified search, and the outcome will be at worst he pleads to possessing a minimal amount of pot. NDB.

How is it a groundless search? Doing 90 in a 70 zone, so he was pulled over for speeding, as soon as his window goes down, the cop smells the pot and bingo, it is probably cause and a legal search. A significant amount of pot is going to be I’m guesssing a kilo plus. Plus Tennessee and not San Francisco.

All of that is going to lead to a conviction.

 

[TheRainMaker]

If McCourty was as good of a CB as people on here say, BB would've found a way to move him back to CB.

I'm surprised (not surprised) this is even being debated.

 

[rochrist]

He's a bust on defense like NKeal Harry on offense.
Hasn't done anything in multiple years. He's injury prone like Rivers, also on his way out.

But if he has any talent it will be forced to show this season with the gap at strong safety

He's only in his second season.