Joe Judge clashed with receivers in 2019....

[Clonamery]

You should change your name to Clownamery. I never said every offensive problem was on Judge. I said that players said Judge worked more with the offence.

I've been called worse. Read your original email again.

 

[p8ryts]

Take note that the Giants offense ranked 31st in points and yards for both of Judge's seasons. He also ruined Daniel Jones after he'd had a promising rookie season.

His biggest mistake was bringing Jason Garrett. Sounds like Judge was too demanding of those poor Giant players.

 

[n6249c]

His biggest mistake was bringing Jason Garrett. Sounds like Judge was too demanding of those poor Giant players.

I’m sure Belichick will temper any such tendencies If he tries to do that here.

 

[Wozzy]

If I'm ranking all the reasons why the Patriots ever won anything then Joe Judge doesn't crack my top 100. Regarding his impact on Daniel Jones, I can only go with the facts... Daniel Jones had only one season, his rookie season, without Judge in his face. Daniel Jones was at least as good as Mac Jones in his rookie season... under Judge he got worse over the next two seasons, that's a fact. I have no reason to have any confidence in Judge working with Mac Jones and the Patriots offense. Likewise I don't want Patricia anywhere near Mac Jones either. That Belichick is putting these two flunkies in prominent roles is highly concerning.

Daniel Jones: 62% passing, 88 QB Rating, 38 sacks, 6.6 YPA
Mac Jones: 68% passing, 93 QB Rating, 28 sacks, 7.3 YPA on 62 more passing attempts.

Yeah they ^ were practically brothers.

You're an alarmist and a negative Nancy, you crap in the punch bowl any opportunity you can... of course you think the sky is falling.

The Pats won three Super Bowls with both coaches on the staff... funny how their horrible coaching wasn't a problem then.

 

[DaBruinz]

Eat sh*t. It was on the radio today that Peppers said Judge worked more with the offence. You don’t need to be a prick with your “addle brained..” comment just cause you don’t like or agree with someone.

You should follow your own advice.

How did you go from "Peppers said that Judge worked more with the offense" to The offense sucked because of Judge?

The comments given to you about the issues that the Giants offense had that had no bearing on Judge makes your comments look uninformed at best and "addle-brained" at worst.

 

[DaBruinz]

If I'm ranking all the reasons why the Patriots ever won anything then Joe Judge doesn't crack my top 100. Regarding his impact on Daniel Jones, I can only go with the facts... Daniel Jones had only one season, his rookie season, without Judge in his face. Daniel Jones was at least as good as Mac Jones in his rookie season... under Judge he got worse over the next two seasons, that's a fact. I have no reason to have any confidence in Judge working with Mac Jones and the Patriots offense. Likewise I don't want Patricia anywhere near Mac Jones either. That Belichick is putting these two flunkies in prominent roles is highly concerning.

This is complete garbage on your part. Claiming that Daniel's rookie year was as good as Mac's is laughable.

Here is Daniel Jones:

Daniel Jones Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Daniel Jones. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

Here is MAC:




In what reality is a 61.9% completion % better than a 67.6%?
It what reality is 38 sacks (in 13 games) taken better than 28 sacks (in 17 games) taken?
It what reality is an 87.7 Rate better than a 92.5 rate?
In what reality is 3027 yards on 284 completions better than 3801 yards on 352 completions?

 

[DaBruinz]

You should change your name to Clownamery. I never said every offensive problem was on Judge. I said that players said Judge worked more with the offence.

Then what were you saying here:

Obviously Edelman. Curran and Edelman are close, Curran wrote Edelman’s biography.

The Giants players said Judge spent more time with the offence and they were absolutely horrible. Cause for concern.

It sure looks like you were blaming Judge for the offensive woes of the Giants.

But nice attempt at spin.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Is Joe Judge a good offensive coach? Hard to tell based off 2019 alone. The Patriots still ranked 7th in points scored and 8th in total passing yards. Not to mention Josh McD was still OC. In Mac's rookie season of 2020 Josh McD was also calling the shots. 2021 will be the true test for Joe Judge as it looks like BB will allow him to make the play calls this year so there will be nobody else to blame.

Am I filled brimming with confidence because of these negative reports on Joe Judge? Hell no. But, it's just really too hard to say whether he's good at his job until he's given the reins to the Patriots offense, and that's happening in the upcoming season. If he screws the pooch and causes Mac Jones to regress, I'm all for kicking him to the curb, but for now, I guess we'll have to wait and see the results first.

Ps I would have been more confident had the Patriots chosen to hire a proven offensive mind to fill the role of OC for 2021. But staff hiring, that's on BB. If his failure to hire a proven OC hurts us in 2021, we'll hold his feet to the fire then, but for now I feel like it's a wait and see what happens mode.

 

[ralmat55]

The Giants were a clown show before Judge ever became their coach. It’s really not fair to use that as a referendum on Joe Judge as a coach. Belichick himself could not have won with Dave Gettleman as his GM.

We can argue this, but we really don’t have a say. Joe Judge will have an important role in coaching the Pats offense in 2022. At least, in this case, he’ll be supervised by Bill and possibly Matt Patricia as well.

I’m kind of looking forward to seeing what changes they’ll bring to the offense. They’re off to a good start removing the full-time FB role. I also like what appears to be an increased role for outside receivers.

If it doesn’t work, I don’t see it ruining Mac Jones who I see as far more self-confident than Daniel Jones will ever be. Bill O’Brien will have finished his 2 year commitment to Alabama and can come back and right the ship in 2023.

 

[crawhammer]

This is complete garbage on your part. Claiming that Daniel's rookie year was as good as Mac's is laughable.

In what reality is a 61.9% completion % better than a 67.6%?
It what reality is 38 sacks (in 13 games) taken better than 28 sacks (in 17 games) taken?
It what reality is an 87.7 Rate better than a 92.5 rate?
In what reality is 3027 yards on 284 completions better than 3801 yards on 352 completions?

My point wasn't Daniel Jones had as good a rookie season as Mac Jones... my point was Daniel Jones had a promising rookie season. All of the promise went in the toilet under Joe Judge, who was an awful HC for the NYG.

As for your numbers, of course you picked out ones that favored Mac. I did the same, picked out numbers that favored DJ... he had more TDs (with 4 fewer games), a higher TD%, fewer INTs (again with fewer games but the INT% were essentially the same), and he averaged 6.2 yards per carry (compared with Mac at 2.9). Yes, Mac had more passing yards, but again he had more starts, the better number to look at is Y/G where DJ was higher.

I don't see what's so laughable about comparing their rookie seasons? They're not that far apart. Ultimately I don't care if Mac's was actually better, again my point was DJ showed enough in his rookie season that his 2nd and 3rd seasons were highly disappointing.

Daniel Jones: 62% passing, 88 QB Rating, 38 sacks, 6.6 YPA
Mac Jones: 68% passing, 93 QB Rating, 28 sacks, 7.3 YPA on 62 more passing attempts.

Yeah they ^ were practically brothers.

You, also, cherry-picking numbers. I already presented the numbers where DJ is better.

Let's not forget DJ had a huge disadvantage with the head coach. Whatever excuses you want to make for Judge, there's no way you are putting him up there with Belichick. Considering how incredibly in over his head Judge was, it's no surprise how badly DJ and the offense played (statistically no offense was worse).

You're an alarmist and a negative Nancy, you crap in the punch bowl any opportunity you can... of course you think the sky is falling.

The Pats won three Super Bowls with both coaches on the staff... funny how their horrible coaching wasn't a problem then.

The sky isn't falling because Judge and Patricia are losers. No, they didn't f*ck up Super Bowl winning seasons... I certainly hope not as assistant coaches to Belichick. But I'm just stating a fact in that both were inept head coaches. Patricia took over a reasonably competent Lions team and immediately put them in the gutter. He got fired and left behind the worst defense in the league. Judge left behind the worst offense in the league so at least they got both sides of the ball covered. Belichick apparently loves theses guys... taking them back into prominent positions. I don't get it but Belichick would have us believe it's in the best interest of the team... we're going to find out either way.

 

[Wozzy]

You, also, cherry-picking numbers. I already presented the numbers where DJ is better.

I posted completion percentage, sacks allowed, QB Rating and yards per completion… it’s laughable and typical Crawdaddy bias that you consider basic stats “cherry picking.”

Daniel Jones is comically worse as a passer compared to Mac… but thanks for playing.

The sky isn't falling because Judge and Patricia are losers. No, they didn't f*ck up Super Bowl winning seasons... I certainly hope not as assistant coaches to Belichick. But I'm just stating a fact in that both were inept head coaches. Patricia took over a reasonably competent Lions team and immediately put them in the gutter. He got fired and left behind the worst defense in the league. Judge left behind the worst offense in the league so at least they got both sides of the ball covered. Belichick apparently loves theses guys... taking them back into prominent positions. I don't get it but Belichick would have us believe it's in the best interest of the team... we're going to find out either way.

Go back and read what I wrote earlier, the list of coaches who weren’t good head coaches but were among the best coordinators is long. Not everyone is cut out for the big chair, it doesn’t make them bad at their jobs. BB is the winningest coach in history, I’ll defer to him on this. Either way the special teams took a dive after Judge left, it can only get better.

Go out and get some sunshine.

 

[Boomer B]

Then what were you saying here:

It sure looks like you were blaming Judge for the offensive woes of the Giants.

But nice attempt at spin.

Stating a fact. The Giants ranked as one of the worst offences in the league. Judge was the head coach and worked more with the offence. He was part of it. No where did I write that he was the sole reason.

 

[Boomer B]

You should follow your own advice.

How did you go from "Peppers said that Judge worked more with the offense" to The offense sucked because of Judge?

The comments given to you about the issues that the Giants offense had that had no bearing on Judge makes your comments look uninformed at best and "addle-brained" at worst.

Please point out where I said the offence sucked because of Judge and Judge alone. Never did. He was the head coach and worked with the offence. He had to take some responsibility for them sucking.

 

[Zuma]

IMO Judge tried to assist the offensive coaches because the offense was so bad. I don't think it makes him a bad coach for trying to help those guys...that's what a leader does.

 

[crawhammer]

I posted completion percentage, sacks allowed, QB Rating and yards per completion… it’s laughable and typical Crawdaddy bias that you consider basic stats “cherry picking.”

Daniel Jones is comically worse as a passer compared to Mac… but thanks for playing.

I posted TDs and INTs... that's as basic as it gets... DJ had better numbers in those categories as a rookie. If we're comparing rookie seasons, which we are, then DJ is not "comically worse" than MJ. It'll interesting to see what Brian Daboll can get out of DJ but I'm guaranteeing DJ will be much better off with his new HC.

Go back and read what I wrote earlier, the list of coaches who weren’t good head coaches but were among the best coordinators is long. Not everyone is cut out for the big chair, it doesn’t make them bad at their jobs. BB is the winningest coach in history, I’ll defer to him on this. Either way the special teams took a dive after Judge left, it can only get better.

Judge isn't working with special teams. He was hired as an offensive assistant. The growth of Mac Jones and the offense overall is much more of a concern for me than special teams. As a head coach, Judge's offenses for two seasons were consistently dreadful. Other than "Bill like him" I can't think of another reason why you would feel positive about Judge as an OA.

 

[DaBruinz]

My point wasn't Daniel Jones had as good a rookie season as Mac Jones... my point was Daniel Jones had a promising rookie season. All of the promise went in the toilet under Joe Judge, who was an awful HC for the NYG.

That's NOT what you said. You said that "Daniel Jones was at least as good as Mac Jones in his rookie season". I showed that your claim that Daniel was at least as good was complete garbage and laughable.

As for your numbers, of course you picked out ones that favored Mac. I did the same, picked out numbers that favored DJ... he had more TDs (with 4 fewer games), a higher TD%, fewer INTs (again with fewer games but the INT% were essentially the same), and he averaged 6.2 yards per carry (compared with Mac at 2.9). Yes, Mac had more passing yards, but again he had more starts, the better number to look at is Y/G where DJ was higher.

Yes. Of course I picked a select few that favored Mac. Because I knew what ridiculous arguments you'd come back with.

Mac had 1 more Int on 62 more Pass attempts. Yards/Game doesn't mean s**t. Especially when Mac had a game where he made only 3 pass attempts. If you take the Buffalo game where Mac was 2/3 for 19 yards out of the equation, Mac had a 236.4 Y/G. Someone like yourself should have accounted for that.

No one cares about how many running yards Mac gets in comparison to Daniel. That's not his job.

I don't see what's so laughable about comparing their rookie seasons? They're not that far apart. Ultimately I don't care if Mac's was actually better, again my point was DJ showed enough in his rookie season that his 2nd and 3rd seasons were highly disappointing.

I didn't say the comparison was laughable. I said that your claim that "Daniel Jones was at least as good as Mac Jones in his rookie season" was laughable. Yes. They were plenty far apart. And your attempt to blame Judge for all of Daniel Jones crap shows your bias.

You, also, cherry-picking numbers. I already presented the numbers where DJ is better.

I didn't "Cherry Pick" numbers. I put them all up there and highlighted where Mac was better. "Cherry-Picking" would be just putting my numbers up without even acknowledging the others existed.

 

[Wozzy]

I posted TDs and INTs... that's as basic as it gets... DJ had better numbers in those categories as a rookie. If we're comparing rookie seasons, which we are, then DJ is not "comically worse" than MJ. It'll interesting to see what Brian Daboll can get out of DJ but I'm guaranteeing DJ will be much better off with his new HC.

One more TD and one less INT isn’t impressive, especially considering he has only gotten worse the more teams built up tape on him. The 2019 Giants ranked 9th in pass attempts, the 2021 Pats ranked 25th, the Pats clearly held tight reins on Mac while the Giants let it fly. The Giant also won 4 games, the Pats went to the playoffs. Laughable comparison, especially when you compare efficiency stats which you went out of your way to ignore… the definition of “cherry picking.”

Judge isn't working with special teams. He was hired as an offensive assistant. The growth of Mac Jones and the offense overall is much more of a concern for me than special teams. As a head coach, Judge's offenses for two seasons were consistently dreadful. Other than "Bill like him" I can't think of another reason why you would feel positive about Judge as an OA.

Nobody but Bill has a damn clue who will do what, there’s a possibility even he is letting it happen organically. Nick Caley could be the offensive coordinator by season’s end. You’re a BB hater and Brady honk, so you’re actively looking for reasons to whine.

 

[DaBruinz]

Stating a fact. The Giants ranked as one of the worst offences in the league. Judge was the head coach and worked more with the offence. He was part of it. No where did I write that he was the sole reason.

No. The only FACT you have is that ONE player (Peppers, not multiple as you claimed) said that Judge spent more time with the offense. You then threw in the opinion that "they were absolutely horrible. Cause for concern". Why would it be a cause for concern for Judge that they were still horrible when they had all the issues @Clonamery mentioned going on? Particularly the injuries. And now, they are shopping their 1st round pick from last year as well.

All it showed me is that Judge wasn't ready to be the HC. That the people he thought would make good assistants under him didn't mesh the way he'd hoped. And that the Personnel changes made by the GM did more harm than good.

 

[Zuma]

All it showed me is that Judge wasn't ready to be the HC. That the people he thought would make good assistants under him didn't mesh the way he'd hoped. And that the Personnel changes made by the GM did more harm than good.

I wish I had a nickle for every head coach that didn't cut it the 1st time around but fared better the 2nd time. It probably happens more times then not. Happens often is business too. "Gee...this guy does a very good job at what he does...let's promote him to something he's never done before".

Promotions pay more...hard to turn them down.

 

[BTTA]

So the original post headline is stated as absolute fact, yet after four pages of thread, there's not a single shred of evidence offered to support it.
Mods, suggest a headline change.