Is the brady vs belichick debate ruining this board or is it just me?

[upstater1]

I have never opposed Brady, in fact a huge fan, what I have seen is a humble man who stayed in this "lane" jump out into the world that is about him and only him.

He hasn't changed a bit? Where did you get those rosy colored glasses.

It is the norm to announce you are coming back after vowing you wanted to spend your time with your family right after the NCAA Selections for that "Tournament"??... Everything he does is calculated & orchestrated to further him and his brand.. He is very good at dominating the news cycle...

I didn't say you opposed him. I said you sound like the critical fans who always came here.

I don't even know what your second sentence means. I said he was always this way.

I'm not too sure what you mean about NCAA selections either. I don't follow it. It doesnt mean much to most people I know, Im sure it doesnt mean anything to Brady. I have no idea how this would further his brand. If anything it does the opposite but making him look flaky.

I can give you dozens of examples of Brady both pushing his brand and acting flaky when he was with the Patriots

 

[Pape]

stephen stills once sang, and probably still does, "If you cant be with the one you love, love the one your with"

Brady isnt here

BB is

I'm not of a mind to follow the bucks, and by extension brady, because its not my team... Bradys legacy, his greatness was established here... I dont need to/want to, nor do i feel any sort of responsibility to continue rooting for him and continued success because of what he did here... i will always appreciate that... hell i saw three super bowl victories, live and in person... But hes no longer a Patriot, so that road ended... Didnt feel like that when Fisk left Boston, didnt feel like that when my all time favorite player left/was cut in New England...

BB gets my full support. He's still here, still trying to make my team, this team, better...

I am tired of all the negativity thrown his way... criticism is fine, as long as its relevant- but invariably, the criticism devolves, rather quickly to the point that the actual criticism isnt relevant, it morphs into outright bashing... dragging his cleveland years into the mix, as those with an anti-BB bent are wont to do ad nauseum? what happened in cleveland 30 years ago isnt relevant, nor will it ever be... so whats the effing point except to troll?

As for the argument, who is responsible... Scott Pioli said it best “And why in life does this have to be reduced down to the disrespectful place of one or the other? Everything about that group was about team, unity, the collective greatness. Just like when I was there, people on the outside wanted to pull it apart. And they’re still doing that, just in a different way.”

Go Pats.

 

[1960Pats]

This is complete bull ****. Every time something comes up about Bill you and your buddies come out to rip on him. Grow up or go away

So far almost all of the complaints have been about the "cheese ****s" who supported Tom over Bill, but then I'm only two pages in.

This reminds me (once again) of a guy in a golf group who complains on every tee about the slow play in front of him, not realizing that the complaining makes it worse for everyone else.

I try to keep my complaints about Bill in the Brady forum. I don't have that many.

 

[1960Pats]

TommyBrady12 was his original username. He's just trolling

Trolls are easy to recognize and it's easy to do something about them. The problem comes when too many people respond to too many of their posts. That clown is only one of the many I have on ignore.

 

[1960Pats]

I knew fanboys would respond.

How exactly does that kind of response make things better?

 

[1960Pats]

I'm not sure why that is and I do agree with that. I don't think that makes any sense. I've said it before, the Brady forum was just to divide out the Buccaneers news and give people a full forum to be able to discuss anything going on down there vs having it be stuck in a megathread. And I think most people agree that having Bucs news threads in the main forum made following what was going on in New England harder to follow, so that's why I did it.

That being said, if people don't want to follow Brady or the Bucs, don't bother going in that forum. Especially for the sake of disrupting threads. It just makes things more difficult on everybody. But most people who follow Brady and continue to do so rooted hard for him and the team while he was here. Most of us have an emotional tie to the team and it does extend to the players and coaches. Just like I'm pretty sure that there would be people here who would support Bill had he walked away, as well as the fact there will be others, myself included, who will keep an eye on what

Josh does in Vegas. Although, I swear to God, if his team beats New England this year and he pumps his fists again like he did after that game in Denver (which was just ridiculous and not cool at all) - I'll lose it

I remember that Denver loss but I don't remember Josh's reaction. I can't blame him for being happy at that time. He just beat his mentor's team.

 

[venecol]

Hey, McDonald's fries are good. Remember when I ordered them from you yesterday at the Drive through? Next time a little bit more salt, please...

 

[1960Pats]

As long as I've been here there's always been a few contrarian posters who turn every thread into an argument. They can't let anything go, and always have to have the last word. They can't even debate in a civil manner, it's all smug passive aggressive, glib shot taking. It's tiresome.

Oftentimes I would disagree strongly with something someone posts, so I'll offer my take and leave it at that. But certain posters seem to think they are infallible and any disagreement with their point of view is taken personally and same old tiresome, petty back and forth drowns out any reasonable discussion.

I remember a great example of this but I can't remember where it was. I went two pages and most of the responses were from the same poster who was repeatedly responding to someone I had on ignore.

 

[1960Pats]

George Patton.

Although I prefer Eisenhower

What stands out to me about Eisenhower is how he had the locals take a walk through the concentration camps after WWII and told the press to take plenty of photos. He did that because he said that someday people would try to say that it didn't happen. And that's exactly what happened.

 

[borg]

So far almost all of the complaints have been about the "cheese ****s" who supported Tom over Bill, but then I'm only two pages in.

This reminds me (once again) of a guy in a golf group who complains on every tee about the slow play in front of him, not realizing that the complaining makes it worse for everyone else.

I try to keep my complaints about Bill in the Brady forum. I don't have that many.

Just the other day I said to myself:
"Self, what PatsFans.com needs is more complaints about complainers"
And boom.......you shuffle in and fill the void......with a gripping golf analogy no less

 

[Ian]

This confuses me, tbh. What did Dungy do - specifically - that prevented Manning from winning championships?

Manning would not have won any championships in Indy (or Denver) without exceptional defense that one year. In the 2006 postseason, he won a Super Bowl with the worst playoff QB rating ever, a touchdown-less game against Baltimore. In 3 of 4 games, the Colts defense allowed 17 points or less.

Dungy inherited a losing team in Tampa Bay and led them to 5 winning seasons in 6 years with bad quarterbacks.

The Colts won at least 12 games for six consecutive seasons and 10 games in the first one.

Overall, Dungy's teams went at least .500 for 12 straight seasons, 11 of which were over .500.

Dungy is in the Hall of Fame.

I think so much of this is revisionism and perception. No, there's no way I'd want Dungy over Belichick. But in what objective way is Dungy a handicap, especially when we saw Manning had the exact same choking problems at UT and Denver. The biggest difference between those Colts teams and Patriots teams is their quarterback play down the stretch, in the biggest moments when facing elimination. The Patriots were better than the Colts overall, but not every year, and the gap wasn't so great. The Colts biggest problem was their superstar QB playing like a risk-averse journeyman when the lights were bright.

Yeah, but don't forget, Dungy was a good regular season coach but not so much in the postseason. Look at Tampa when he left and Gruden came in that first year and took his roster all the way to a championship. As far as the specifics of what he did that held them back, I don't know off the top of my head short of going back and doing some digging. I guess the point I was making is if you pair Brady with Dungy and put Manning with Belichick, would the conversation be different? Which is sort of the argument I was making about the two being important to each other's success.

 

[bresna]

The real question is who's responsible for the Bucs success: BA or Brady?

Did you even watch the end of that playoff game last year? Would you call that ending a success? Who was responsible for that ending, BA or TB12?

It's posts like this that really make me wonder if you're the MAC10 of the pro-Brady team.

 

[venecol]

Did you even watch the end of that playoff game last year? Would you call that ending a success? Who was responsible for that ending, BA or TB12?

It's posts like this that really make me wonder if you're the MAC10 of the pro-Brady team.

It's a joke lighten up (Ian got it!).

That play was on Toilet Bowles.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Did you even watch the end of that playoff game last year? Would you call that ending a success? Who was responsible for that ending, BA or TB12?

It's posts like this that really make me wonder if you're the MAC10 of the pro-Brady team.

Bucs were lucky to even be in a position to win against the Rams...how often does the center snap the ball over the QB's head leading to a turnover?

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Brady is still a POS. He just proved that with his unretirement claim during a war that is killing babies. He needs so much attention. I sincerely hope his body see lots of pounding attention when he returns to play. A couple of broken legs would be a good message. Stay well yourself.

I'm saying this respectfully but aren't you around 90-95?? Again - respectfully! Im hoping to make it there myself.

I'm asking bc I'd imagine someone who's lived that long knows the score in life. You're not the same person at 20, you are at 30. And I'd imagine that's the same for 40-50 too. Again being almost 100 I'd figure you'd cut him some slack at the half way point approaching 45.

How in the world anyone can call Brady a pos is beyond me though. Not even being dramatic but that **** shouldn't ever be written or spoken here. If you're a real Pats fan you owe everything to Brady. You'd have 0 memories or excitement over the last 20 year's that ultimately defines this franchise. You're off the rails man. Hernandez, Ty Hill, Caruth, Hardy etc you have plenty examples of what a pos athlete is. Brady is so far away from those types it's not funny.

And again just from a pure fan perspective. NEP weren't cool, weren't winning, weren't very relevant before he helped put 6 Lombardi's at 1PP.

 

[DarrylS]

I didn't say you opposed him. I said you sound like the critical fans who always came here.

I don't even know what your second sentence means. I said he was always this way.

I'm not too sure what you mean about NCAA selections either. I don't follow it. It doesnt mean much to most people I know, Im sure it doesnt mean anything to Brady. I have no idea how this would further his brand. If anything it does the opposite but making him look flaky.

I can give you dozens of examples of Brady both pushing his brand and acting flaky when he was with the Patriots

Simply I am tired with this inane argument of BB vs. Brady and all of the innuendo that follows it.. it is time to move on, #12 wanted out and he is not coming back...

FYI he announced his unretirement immediately following the NCAA selections for their tournament, which looked like to me he needed to steal the spotlight.. which he has done a lot of recently.

BB & Brady are both the goats in their respective roles, but there is a faction here that insists that Brady is more important than BB in this incredible run, which might make sense if the game were tennis, but it is not..

 

[SHOWTIME15]

but there is a faction here that insists that Brady is more important than BB in this incredible run,

It's Brady worship. In their world, Brady can do no wrong, despite 3 super bowl losses. If he makes a mistake or loses a game, it's on someone else. When he wins, it's all on him. He's superman!

 

[crawhammer]

It's Brady worship. In their world, Brady can do no wrong, despite 3 super bowl losses. If he makes a mistake or loses a game, it's on someone else. When he wins, it's all on him. He's superman!

Should he have been expected to go 10-0 in Super Bowls? You're being ridiculous. He could have played better in the SBs against the Giants. He gets 0% blame for the loss to Philadelphia. Defenses played a significant roll in SBs titles #1, #3 and #6. Defense/Brady get equal credit for #7. Brady gets the highest percentage of credit for #2, #4 & #5.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

He could have played better in the SBs against the Giants. He gets 0% blame for the loss to Philadelphia. Defenses played a significant roll in SBs titles #1, #3 and #6. Defense/Brady get equal credit for #7. Brady gets the highest percentage of credit for #2, #4 & #5.

I'm not disagreeing with you...

 

[Biffins]

It's a stale debate. Everyone who already wanted to weigh in has already done so. We don't need to be reminded of their opinion every time someone feels insecure about their standing in the debate.
I wonder if under our avatar we could have an option to select for weighing in on the debate. Mine would be an option that said something similar to "Glad they both were part of the dynasty. They complimented each other well".

Except it’s not stale. What they both do or accomplish alone post the split (or lack thereof) gives context to their accomplishments together.