Is the brady vs belichick debate ruining this board or is it just me?

[Brewskies]

Please unplug your computer and never plug it back in under any circumstances.

Is that a direct order or are you playing games?

 

[lancerman]

And has a lot of potential over the next several years thanks to a young QB. With Brady, the guy could retire at any minute, change his mind, retire again, etc. And we don't have the weapons that Tampa has to prop Brady's stats up. Last year Brady was the product of an easy schedule. Once he faced the Rams, he struggled up until they started turning the ball over.

The team on paper is worse than last year. Pretty much all the potential is in how much you think Mac can evolve as a QB which is something every single team that drafts a QB is hoping for and most fail.

Right now for the Pats to compete, Mac has to somehow outdo at least 3 of either Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, Wilson, Carr, Ryan, Watson, Burrow, and Jackson to even make the playoffs while also probably having the worst supporting cast of any of the guys I mentioned. For the record all the guys I mentioned would also be considered as of today better QB’s until Mac proves otherwise. That’s to make the playoffs. Not even talking about doing anything in there which at this point should be the standard for this team.

In this league that kind of potential means nothing. It basically means you got lucky.

Also you are being obnoxious. The team flat out declined. Brady looked worse in 2019 for the same reason no QB has lit up the stat charts here since. The talent isn’t there. But Brady at least offered two things

1. He gave the team a high floor in spite of a lack of talent.

2. It’s very clear that with him the team has a QB who can make a run for a SB in the right situation.

Those are two things that remain to be seen with Mac. That doesn’t mean it can’t happen. But it doesn’t mean the superior bet as of right now wasn’t Brady.

 

[sb1]

One might say that the Brady fans can quite easily be considered Pink Hats in actuality aren't fans of the New England Patriots

Nah. Brady fan and also Pats fan for life. I was cheering for that FG to make it in that week 4 game last year. I don't think anyone on this board feels any differently.

Brady gave me as a Patriot fan so many great memories that other teams fans only wish they had. And he is playing for a team that couldn't be more irrelevant to the Patriots. It's easy to cheer for him there. Like I said if he goes to Miami in 2023 then that changes it for me, I will not cheer for him there for obvious reasons.

 

[Pape]

But that's not what you said:


Like a bunch of us, Ian is a Brady fan, despite him being on another team. You deciding that Brady fans "in actuality aren't fans of the NEP," is 100% being judgemental. Your intolerance is well noted. (BTW I like you, we just don't see eye to eye on this).

I like you too venecol. Understand the difference of opinion.

It's like you think you get to hold up Brady, tear down the team at the same time... well if you continually piss on a team. Are you really a fan? Player or laundry ... It's been asked and answered.

So I rightly don't care if you think it's judgemental. Act like a jete, get called a jete.

 

[203Pat]

See? more BS.

It has nothing to do with me being a "better" fan. It has everything to do with me actually being a fan of this team. Not some front running pink hat.

You caught me again. You're on a roll.

 

[Pape]

You caught me again. You're on a roll.

Yup. Easy peasy. You know what they say, jete is gonna jete. Way to go jete, you be good at that.

 

[lancerman]

Brady was with us in 2019 and all I heard was about all the issues this offense had....there were plenty of posters calling TB "noodle arm" saying we had no talent on offense, saying Gronk should retire, BB lost a step etc....this was coming off a Super Bowl win.

And there were plenty of people who rightly evaluated Brady’s play and realized he wasn’t the problem and it was the team that had issues. He both proved that the next two years, as did we since both our subsequent QB’s did not actually put produce him (and you can argue that at least with Henry and emerging Meyers/Bourne that Mac had more offensive help). Also Gronk was retired in 2019.

Maybe we still would be complaining about the offense, but we were a 12 win team in 2019 with a 16 game schedule which was par for the course for Brady led squads. Right now we have the same issues and also a lower floor and a question mark over whether the QB will even develop enough to be just average in the conference.

 

[ashley]

And there were plenty of people who rightly evaluated Brady’s play and realized he wasn’t the problem and it was the team that had issues. He both proved that the next two years, as did we since both our subsequent QB’s did not actually put produce him (and you can argue that at least with Henry and emerging Meyers/Bourne that Mac had more offensive help).

Maybe we still would be complaining about the offense, but we were a 12 win team in 2019 with a 16 game schedule which was par for the course for Brady led squads. Right now we have the same issues and also a lower floor and a question mark over whether the QB will even develop enough to be just average in the conference.

I'm not quite sure what your point is. I did want to ask you a question though...if we put Brady on Detroit next year, are you saying they will win 12 games? Just curious.

 

[lancerman]

What a stupid analogy. Mac has proven he can play in this league. How many pro bowls did Ryan Leaf get to?

And if Brady were on this team, we'd still have issues at the skilled positions on offense.

Pro Bowls are a dumb argument. Mac was an alternate for one. Second Stafford didn’t make a Pro Bowl despite having 19 more TD’s and a 10 point higher passer rating and being clearly better. Mac Jones might not even be a top 10 QB in this conference or even a top 16 QB in the league right now

 

[SHOWTIME15]

The team on paper is worse than last year. Pretty much all the potential is in how much you think Mac can evolve as a QB which is something every single team that drafts a QB is hoping for and most fail.

Right now for the Pats to compete, Mac has to somehow outdo at least 3 of either Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, Wilson, Carr, Ryan, Watson, Burrow, and Jackson to even make the playoffs while also probably having the worst supporting cast of any of the guys I mentioned. For the record all the guys I mentioned would also be considered as of today better QB’s until Mac proves otherwise. That’s to make the playoffs. Not even talking about doing anything in there which at this point should be the standard for this team.

In this league that kind of potential means nothing. It basically means you got lucky.

Also you are being obnoxious. The team flat out declined. Brady looked worse in 2019 for the same reason no QB has lit up the stat charts here since. The talent isn’t there. But Brady at least offered two things

1. He gave the team a high floor in spite of a lack of talent.

2. It’s very clear that with him the team has a QB who can make a run for a SB in the right situation.

Those are two things that remain to be seen with Mac. That doesn’t mean it can’t happen. But it doesn’t mean the superior bet as of right now wasn’t Brady.

Next year is a throwaway year IMO. But the team can bounce back with 1-2 more good drafts.

 

[venecol]

I like you too venecol. Understand the difference of opinion.

It's like you think you get to hold up Brady, tear down the team at the same time... well if you continually piss on a team. Are you really a fan? Player or laundry ... It's been asked and answered.

So I rightly don't care if you think it's judgemental. Act like a jete, get called a jete.

OK, but it's not like I want the Pats to fail. That's nonsense.

On the contrary, if I'm being critical of the moves the Pats make (coaching, FAcy, etc.) is because I care and want them to win and compete.

I'm just simply not a homer. I'm definately not a IBWT guy. I'm a realist. I haven't seen anything that Bill has done since 2019 (aside from last year's draft) that leads me to believe we can win the Division nvm about a SB.

It bothers me. Guess what, I'm not alone.

 

[lancerman]

I'm not quite sure what your point is. I did want to ask you a question though...if we put Brady on Detroit next year, are you saying they will win 12 games? Just curious.

12 games? Idk. They 100% are a more efficient and I could see them being in that 9-8 10-7 range with Brady because he is a much better read than Goff and can open up the offense a bit.

Keep in mind Detroit had 6 games that were 4 or less points of margin. Those are all winnable replacing Brady for Goff. There are other closer games in there that Brady changes the dynamic of. Obviously it’s conjecture because you can’t prove a hypothetical. But it’s there to consider

 

[Pape]

OK, but it's not like I want the Pats to fail. That's nonsense.

On the contrary, if I'm being critical of the moves the Pats make (coaching, FAcy, etc.) is because I care and want them to win and compete.

I'm just simply not a homer. I'm definately not a IBWT guy. I'm a realist. I haven't seen anything that Bill has done since 2019 (aside from last year's draft) that leads me to believe we can win the Division nvm about a SB.

It bothers me. Guess what, I'm not alone.

View attachment 42239

final words from me

Go Pats.

Eff everyone else.

 

[lancerman]

Next year is a throwaway year IMO. But the team can bounce back with 1-2 more good drafts.

Yes they need good drafts. Next year is definitely a throwaway. Mac can definitely improve and be somebody you can win with. But that’s going to be a development process and I’m not liking what we have given him to work with.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Yes they need good drafts. Next year is definitely a throwaway. Mac can definitely improve and be somebody you can win with. But that’s going to be a development process and I’m not liking what we have given him to work with.

Let’s see what weapons he can get in the draft for Mac. Last year at this time the team looked pretty awful with no QB and that changed quickly…

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Kraft is going to regret choosing Bill over Brady until the day he dies. He could have likely had a trio of Brady/Bill O Brian/Nick Caserio which would not only be great for the short term but set up long term stability. Instead he gets a good but not great rookie QB, a 70 year old Belichick, and the worst assistant coaching staff in the history of the league.

LOL

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

There was a Team Bill from 2017-2021. Team Bill is no longer in existence. Most of the guys arguing hardcore that Bill could win with anyone, and that if anything Tom was holding him back in recent years, have dispersed. Mostly, I think the tune has changed with much more appreciation for Brady, but a bunch of them want the pro-Brady to hold Bill in the same time of singular, legendary esteem as Brady, revising history to a really biased perspective, and I don't think that's going to happen. They want the Brady talk off the main board, which I think is ridiculous, but people have mostly complied...the one's who seem to have the least respect for that request are the guys who want to cry about Brady being a bad guy.

Of course, you also have one complete assclown on here ruining every thread. To me, it's remarkable that @DropKickFlutie was banned...yes, he was aggressive and repeated himself often, but at least the guy was intelligent and often did add other perspectives. @MAC10 is the same as him, except he's also really stupid, so his troll act is simply annoying, not insightful. He's now in territory where the Rob Parkers, Barry McCockiners, Scott Kacsmars of the world no longer frequent because at some point, even they have concerns for their dignity, but Porksley has no shame, and most importantly, he has all the time in the world on his hands (between fast food runs.) There's a Bills fan and a Chiefs fan on here who add about 10X more insight to the forum, even if their perspectives are different than ours.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

There was a Team Bill from 2017-2021. Team Bill is no longer in existence. Most of the guys arguing hardcore that Bill could win with anyone, and that if anything Tom was holding him back in recent years, have dispersed. Mostly, I think the tune has changed with much more appreciation for Brady, but a bunch of them want the pro-Brady to hold Bill in the same time of singular, legendary esteem as Brady, revising history to a really biased perspective, and I don't think that's going to happen. They want the Brady talk off the main board, which I think is ridiculous, but people have mostly complied...the one's who seem to have the least respect for that request are the guys who want to cry about Brady being a bad guy.

Of course, you also have one complete assclown on here ruining every thread. To me, it's remarkable that @DropKickFlutie was banned...yes, he was aggressive and repeated himself often, but at least the guy was intelligent and often did add other perspectives. @MAC10 is the same as him, except he's also really stupid, so his troll act is simply annoying, not insightful. He's now in territory where the Rob Parkers, Barry McCockiners, Scott Kacsmars of the world no longer frequent because at some point, even they have concerns for their dignity, but Porksley has no shame, and most importantly, he has all the time in the world on his hands (between fast food runs.) There's a Bills fan and a Chiefs fan on here who add about 10X more insight to the forum, even if their perspectives are different than ours.

Yeah, you should be banned for saying you were going to rape one of my family members.

 

[Tunescribe]

When you look at the fan forums of the other 31 teams, they consistently have posters criticize both their GMs and HC. Why is that? Because that's what fans do.

In our case, Bill is both GM and HC. It's natural that Bill would see more criticism than normal given that he's not only the cook but also buys the groceries. Bill is hardly a likeable guy. Even Kraft called him an A-hole. News flash: Bill makes mistakes.

Despite there being posters that have been criticizing Bill for years, somehow any criticism of him by posters that continue to support the Goat is viewed as some unique event that needs to be cancelled. More so, posters that continue to support Brady's career are viewed as traitors and not being Pats fan worthy (despite the forum creator being one).

It's clear that despite the team Bill homer attempts to ridicule the pro Brady posters as holding TFB as a deity; it is in fact the team Bill posters that are obsessed w/ Brady in a truly sad, jilted bride sort of way. They get offended by any mention of or threads started about Brady while having no issues with threads about Tyreek Hill, Deshaun Watson or any other pos player. They start these Brady vs BB threads and then use them to complain about the pro Brady posters (who don't start them). They get triggered by any criticism of their deity Bill and accuse anyone doing it of being a Brady fan (as if that's a terrible thing).

Unfortunately, this will never stop since their therapy is going nowhere. Even after Bill and Tom retire, they'll never get over their feelings of abandonment, despair and rejection when Brady decided to leave the Pats. The fact Tom is succesful w/o Bill (and w/ BA, lol) is just the twisting of that imaginary knife into their sensitive psyche.

Maybe Ian can start a Brady PTSD forum moderated by a Pats fan psycologist, therapist or even psychiatrist to help these poor folks out.

The amount of energy you've put into this exaggerated characterization of "jilted" and "obsessed" Patriots fans raises questions as to why. It seems you're demonstrating the very butthurt obsessiveness you complain about and this isn't your first post to that end. Yes, BB is human and should not be above criticism but the same applies to Tom Brady. Perhaps SOME Brady fans felt so jilted by BB/Kraft letting Tom walk three years ago they became obsessed with proving them wrong, eagerly documenting every Patriots misstep since.

The nonsense goes both ways. Remaining a devoted Brady fan is fine, anyone going out of their way to disparage him is wrong. Likewise, Brady loyalists gleefully dissing BB, Mac Jones, Patriots fans, etc. ca. 2020-onward has become a "thing" here, undeniably. Where I demur is when TB12 fandom becomes full-blown Buccaneers allegiance on a site created for Pats fans.

So, BB is an a-hole and Brady is a self-promoting diva. Both claim GOAT distinction but unfortunately, only one remains affiliated with New England. The other taking a backseat here should be understandable.

 

[203Pat]

Pro Bowls are a dumb argument. Mac was an alternate for one. Second Stafford didn’t make a Pro Bowl despite having 19 more TD’s and a 10 point higher passer rating and being clearly better. Mac Jones might not even be a top 10 QB in this conference or even a top 16 QB in the league right now

Lol we are counting pro bowl alternate selections as something to care about now? Once the actual pro bowlers drop out they call people until someone agrees to play. Who knows how many calls went out before Mac said yes?