Is McDaniels too conservative on offense?

[Ring 6]

I think we're saying similar things. The Patriots stay with their strengths (as do most NFL teams) the preponderance of their play calling and then will "take shots" based on looks/tendencies they see the defense do over the course of a game. A lot of folks here call that "too conservative" because they're not throwing it 15-20 yards in a 3rd of plays.

They're not a vertical offense nor should they be, but calling for "dink and dunk" as a solution against a 8-9 man box likewise doesn't make much sense.

There's middle ground of using play action throws and middle third routes especially early in the game (first couple series as a tendency breaker or as you say in nonobvious passing downs) which could loosen that short third of the field up for both running and passing, but it's likewise riskier (Buffalo is good in the secondary even with White out) and does absolutely rely on good decision making by the QB.

I’m going to do a deep dive into this, to illustrate what I’m referring to better. Everything is about situations.

 

[captain stone]

@PatsFanInVa it might be time for more poetry 'round these parts.

Then again, it might not.

 

[Dingleberry]

Then again, it might not.

Nope. I am still recovering from the debauchery of the last poetry thread. Need more time.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

This board has no ****ing patience.

1 year of not making the playoffs? A few years since our last SB win? I CAN'T STAND IT!!

6th in points
9th in 1st downs
14th in passing yds
8th is rushing yards
12th in QB rating
10th in pass plays 20+ yds
11th in offensive TDs.

...all with a rookie Qb.

Josh is not the problem. Christ.

So should people not be allowed to talk though? The opening post didn't say he should be fires or anything.

 

[RxJock1120]

This board has no ****ing patience.

And proud of it!!!

 

[RobertWeathers]

So should people not be allowed to talk though? The opening post didn't say he should be fires or anything.

People can talk about anything/everything about Josh they want.

Multiple posters want Josh gone and think he sucks.

My posts are refuting those misdirected and misguided statements and sentiments.

 

[‘Mondre]

Who gives a ****?

What matters are wins and Super Bowls.

I don’t think I do. He’s accurate with great touch

not like they can’t roid him up a lil

the threat of the long ball never hurt anybody’s chances of getting to the sb tho.

 

[captain stone]

My main problem with Skippy is not that he's too conservative - although he has been at times - it's that he (& Bill) thinks he's always smarter than the guy across from him... But that attitude can, and does, lead to lazy play-calling and therefore worse execution; the 3rd/2 call that lead to the Pick-6 on Sunday, and calling for two consecutive first reads to Kneal Harry vs Barfalo being the latest examples... The dude has never been a disciple of the school of If it ain't broke Then don't fix it...

 

[PatsFanInVa]

So should people not be allowed to talk though? The opening post didn't say he should be fires or anything.

@RobertWeathers took care of your question perfectly. I get somewhat irritated by this repeated trope. Everybody raises it like they thought it up all by themselves, when it's pretty much just the new hotness in self-hating Boston sports media talk.

Of course, I also have the perspective that the BB era hasn't exactly stunk up the joint. It's nice to see Mac with BB and JM is more like Luck with Indy as a successor than like a "return to crapola," woulda-shoulda-coulda been successor. It's almost like people around here just disregard that possibility. That's sort of fair, because the rest of the JEST is a dumpster fire, whereas the Pats have good players across the board, thanks of course to the maligned Billl the GM.

I'm also interested to see what "building the next one" will look like. Brady the individual took his game to its highest potential, and God love him for it. Now he needs an all-star cast to do the job though, and that's ultimately what broke up the marriage. But back to "building Brady." There's so much you just can't coach that Brady does have that we never ask how good it is for a young QB to just be allowed to play within himself, learn the system, and trust the system. He had that, now Mac has that.

But I digress.

Main thing is, talk all you want about how McD is too conservative. outside of us and the NE sports media, all the talk about Josh is who is going to make him a HC next year.

(But PS... anybody curious to see whether there's an extra gear for the playoffs? Oh yay, it's that time of year when I drag out this one...)

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Nope. I am still recovering from the debauchery of the last poetry thread. Need more time.

Shall I compare thee to a Summer's Eve?

Welcome to Summer's Eve®

Summer’s Eve® products are made specifically for your vaginal area. Visit our site and find out which product is right for you.

www.summerseve.com

We SE you Dingleberry

 

[Dingleberry]

Shall I compare thee to a Summer's Eve?

Welcome to Summer's Eve®

Summer’s Eve® products are made specifically for your vaginal area. Visit our site and find out which product is right for you.

www.summerseve.com

We SE you Dingleberry

I think that inspired the final couplet of Romeo & Juliet.

Never was there a tale of more horrid stench
Than Summer Eve and her feminine trench.


Jeezus, VA, do NOT get me going!

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

@RobertWeathers took care of your question perfectly. I get somewhat irritated by this repeated trope. Everybody raises it like they thought it up all by themselves, when it's pretty much just the new hotness in self-hating Boston sports media talk.

Of course, I also have the perspective that the BB era hasn't exactly stunk up the joint. It's nice to see Mac with BB and JM is more like Luck with Indy as a successor than like a "return to crapola," woulda-shoulda-coulda been successor. It's almost like people around here just disregard that possibility. That's sort of fair, because the rest of the JEST is a dumpster fire, whereas the Pats have good players across the board, thanks of course to the maligned Billl the GM.

I'm also interested to see what "building the next one" will look like. Brady the individual took his game to its highest potential, and God love him for it. Now he needs an all-star cast to do the job though, and that's ultimately what broke up the marriage. But back to "building Brady." There's so much you just can't coach that Brady does have that we never ask how good it is for a young QB to just be allowed to play within himself, learn the system, and trust the system. He had that, now Mac has that.

But I digress.

Main thing is, talk all you want about how McD is too conservative. outside of us and the NE sports media, all the talk about Josh is who is going to make him a HC next year.

(But PS... anybody curious to see whether there's an extra gear for the playoffs? Oh yay, it's that time of year when I drag out this one...)

People can talk about anything/everything about Josh they want.

Multiple posters want Josh gone and think he sucks.

My posts are refuting those misdirected and misguided statements and sentiments.

It's funny tho, because I've actually defended McDaniels (at least in real life). McDaniels is actually pretty solid, and gets over-hated on if anything. Mcdaniels had a lot of great, timely playcalls over the years which helped the team win in crucial moments. Oddly enough... this is why I actually agree with the thread, or at least understand it. There has been a lack of creativity in recent games, imo, that we will need when we play Buffalo.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I think that inspired the final couplet of Romeo & Juliet.

Never was there a tale of more horrid stench
Than Summer Eve and her feminine trench.


Jeezus, VA, do NOT get me going!

okay iambic pentameter... basic, no substitutions...

unstressed - stressed, 5 times.

dum DUM dum DUM dum DUM dum DUM dum DUM

So the above might yield, if we accept the old meaning of "dank"... and grab the nonsensical but so-right-there Marianas Trench pun...

There NEver WAS a TALE of DANKer STENCH
Than SUMmer EVE and MARiANNa's TRENCH

Second line, fixed to approximate what you wrote...
Than SUMmer EVE and EVE's most PUNgent TRENCH

(you could argue in favor of "HER most PUNgent TRENCH," but I don't think in that sentence that "her" would be stressed)

The main thing is, you have to count stresses as well as syllables...

FEM-i-nine can't appear in IP, unless you contract it to FEM'nine, for example

Because I care about **** like this and FB knows it, I have been marketed to to buy a T-shirt that says "I'm a schwa. I'm never stressed."

Baddumchinge, as Chaucer would say.

 

[zipster9]

HELL YES!

UNLEASH THE KRAKEN !

 

[Dingleberry]

okay iambic pentameter... basic, no substitutions...

unstressed - stressed, 5 times.

dum DUM dum DUM dum DUM dum DUM dum DUM

So the above might yield, if we accept the old meaning of "dank"... and grab the nonsensical but so-right-there Marianas Trench pun...

There NEver WAS a TALE of DANKer STENCH
Than SUMmer EVE and MARiANNa's TRENCH

Second line, fixed to approximate what you wrote...
Than SUMmer EVE and EVE's most PUNgent TRENCH

(you could argue in favor of "HER most PUNgent TRENCH," but I don't think in that sentence that "her" would be stressed)

The main thing is, you have to count stresses as well as syllables...

FEM-i-nine can't appear in IP, unless you contract it to FEM'nine, for example

Because I care about **** like this and FB knows it, I have been marketed to to buy a T-shirt that says "I'm a schwa. I'm never stressed."

Baddumchinge, as Chaucer would say.

I vowed after my 2nd Shakespeare class never to stress (pun intended) about iambic pentameter. Can't do it. It's too tedious to me. Love reading him, but do not have the patience to replicate him faithfully.

Billy's creation of words is my real passion. Still so quotable!

 

[Ring 6]

Early in the season when the Patriots were 2/8 red zone conversions with a rookie qb in his first 3 games, the usual
suspects here are crapping on jmd.
Since week 4 the patriots red zone conversion rate is 67.3%. The # 1 team in the NFL this year was 66.7%.
Even with the slow start the patriots were 11th.
Great job by jmd with a rookie qb.
Hell the patriots were 6th in the nfl in scoring, with a rookie QB, and threads like this happen.
The offense was also #2 in % of possessions ending with points.

the other teams that mostly started rookie QBs and their scoring ranks

Jets. 28
Jags. 32
Bears 27
Texans 30

5 teams mostly started rookie QBs.
4 were in the bottom 6 in scoring (joined by the giants and panthers) and the 5th was 6th best.

I guess we need to start posting about the embarrassment of riches in weapons the offense had to have a rookie qb be 6th in scoring, 2nd in scoring efficiency and 1st in red zone TDs % after week 3 since he was saddled with a terrible offensive coordinator who is too conservative and who calls the same plays all the time so the defense knows the play that’s coming.

Or, we could elevate the insight on this board and stop the uneducated whining.

 

[captain stone]

Early in the season when the Patriots were 2/8 red zone conversions with a rookie qb in his first 3 games, the usual
suspects here are crapping on jmd.
Since week 4 the patriots red zone conversion rate is 67.3%. The # 1 team in the NFL this year was 66.7%.
Even with the slow start the patriots were 11th.
Great job by jmd with a rookie qb.
Hell the patriots were 6th in the nfl in scoring, with a rookie QB, and threads like this happen.
The offense was also #2 in % of possessions ending with points.

the other teams that mostly started rookie QBs and their scoring ranks

Jets. 28
Jags. 32
Bears 27
Texans 30

5 teams mostly started rookie QBs.
4 were in the bottom 6 in scoring (joined by the giants and panthers) and the 5th was 6th best.

I guess we need to start posting about the embarrassment of riches in weapons the offense had to have a rookie qb be 6th in scoring, 2nd in scoring efficiency and 1st in red zone TDs % after week 3 since he was saddled with a terrible offensive coordinator who is too conservative and who calls the same plays all the time so the defense knows the play that’s coming.

Or, we could elevate the insight on this board and stop the uneducated whining.

"Lies, dam lies, and statistics."

 

[Wax Frog]

 

[Ring 6]

"Lies, dam lies, and statistics."

Go ahead and refute any of it.
These are facts. It’s ludicrous to say McDaniels has done a poor job.
Here is another fact. Herbert in 2020 was considered an incredible rookie year. The patriots in 2021 scored 78 more points then the 2020 Chargers, had a better red zone % and
scored on 48% of their possessions vs the 2020 Chargers 38%.
So was Jones 2021 way better than Herbert 2020, did Jones have way better weapons or did McDaniels do a damn good job.
At least 1 must be true because the 2021 Patriot offense significantly outperformed the 2020 Charger offense.

 

[captain stone]

Go ahead and refute any of it.
These are facts. It’s ludicrous to say McDaniels has done a poor job.
Here is another fact. Herbert in 2020 was considered an incredible rookie year. The patriots in 2021 scored 78 more points then the 2020 Chargers, had a better red zone % and
scored on 48% of their possessions vs the 2020 Chargers 38%.
So was Jones 2021 way better than Herbert 2020, did Jones have way better weapons or did McDaniels do a damn good job.
At least 1 must be true because the 2021 Patriot offense significantly outperformed the 2020 Charger offense.

More facts:

NEPatsies/Foxborough Frauds are THE WORST team in the 2021 POs when both coaching & personnel are combined; and are THE WORST EVER playoff team in THE ENTIRE HISTORY of the franchise.