Is Mac the guy for the future?

[Wozzy]

Yeah I hope Zappe is getting equal reps in practice I don't think Hoyer will hold up IF he gets a lot of shots and he's going get hit. The hits don't exactly feel the same on a older body I think Zappe with good preparation could lead us for a while. That said if Hoyer looks decent and get us on some sort of streak BB might roll with the hot hand. I think some time off will really do Mac good to reflect in the film room.

I think Hoyer will get the call, but Zappe got the lion’s share of snaps all off-season after Mac. He looked good, good arm, throws a nice ball… but like a rookie would throw a wtf ball every so often that got picked off or could have been.

That being said he looked to be in command of the offense and line people up in the right place… similar to Mac. It will be interesting to see if Zappe gets some run. He has talent. A full blown QB controversy would be a good thing considering how reckless Mac was being with the ball. Zappe could surprise if he gets a chance.

 

[Triumph]

Mac's ceiling is Kirk Cousins...

It's not that Mac doesn't have the physical traits, it's his decision making that has regressed. We've seen QBs who don't have the physical tools like Brady, Montana, Brees, etc. have successful NFL careers.

His plateau is Jon Kitna / Chad Pennington.

 

[mike_usagisan]

It's not that Mac doesn't have the physical traits, it's his decision making that has regressed.

I'm high on Mac, not because of the zip of the ball or some rainbow arch, but because I think he's smart and last year he showed that he could make good decisions with the ball, which is what I want from a QB. Ian had a great post about how that's changed under Patricia as OC, with the guess that Patricia is telling him where to throw the ball rather than letting him make the decision to who is open. That's as good a theory for the regression as any.

 

[Triumph]

I think Hoyer will get the call, but Zappe got the lion’s share of snaps all off-season after Mac. He looked good, good arm, throws a nice ball… but like a rookie would throw a wtf ball every so often that got picked off or could have been.

That being said he looked to be in command of the offense and line people up in the right place… similar to Mac. It will be interesting to see if Zappe gets some run. He has talent. A full blown QB controversy would be a good thing considering how reckless Mac was being with the ball. Zappe could surprise if he gets a chance.

I want Zappe, but doubt he will pass over Hoyer like Fredo Corleone.

Hoyer is smaht and can handle things unlike what people say.

 

[Pape]

Rumor has it BOB isn’t the OC because Bill doesn’t want to poach from Saban. Idk.

yeah, greg bedard wrote that early on....

more recently albert breer stated it was due to the potential of BoB moving on after just 1 year...

who's to know what the here-to's and why-for's actually are... all are plausible i suppose, least they sound like realistic reasons why something did or didn't occur

 

[PatsFan2]

I think Hoyer will get the call, but Zappe got the lion’s share of snaps all off-season after Mac. He looked good, good arm, throws a nice ball… but like a rookie would throw a wtf ball every so often that got picked off or could have been.

That being said he looked to be in command of the offense and line people up in the right place… similar to Mac. It will be interesting to see if Zappe gets some run. He has talent. A full blown QB controversy would be a good thing considering how reckless Mac was being with the ball. Zappe could surprise if he gets a chance.

IF the Offense flows without Mac and things look good yeah I could see that with either back-ups. I hope T Thornton comes back real soon our Offense needs his speed.

 

[203Pat]

does it? on its face it might... and it might be the root of the decision... Trying to quantify what exactly is "doing what's best for the team" can be a complex issue... if recruiting BoB caused Saban to get ticked off, enough to shut down a potential player information pipeline, whose to say that's not more valuable to the team long term vs bring in an OC tht might not stick around for a while?

Think BB used Saban as a sounding board prior to swapping baby thor for Mack Wilson Sr? That seems to have worked out well... along with most of the alabama players we have gotten in the draft...

Sometimes things are more nuanced than they seem...

So hindering the development of your second year QB is better than potentially losing some intel on players from a single school? BOB has been here before and has been a proven and successful offensive coach and has the advantage of having worked with Mac's college coach and his current one. It was a match made in heaven for us but Bill didn't want to piss off his friend. Chad O'Shea is in Cleveland he cant get intel on Mack Wilson from him? Bill has been in and around the league for 50 years. He has dozens and dozens of contacts at all levels of the game. I am sure pissing off Saban would be temporary and they would be yucking it up at Alabama's pro day in a year or two.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I'm high on Mac, not because of the zip of the ball or some rainbow arch, but because I think he's smart and last year he showed that he could make good decisions with the ball, which is what I want from a QB. Ian had a great post about how that's changed under Patricia as OC, with the guess that Patricia is telling him where to throw the ball rather than letting him make the decision to who is open. That's as good a theory for the regression as any.

Not to be a Negative Nancy, but another theory could be that teams have figured Mac out. He really hasn't been the same since the first Buffalo game of last year.

In my view, he needs to stick to what works best for him and that is dinking and dunking.

 

[mike_usagisan]

In my view, he needs to stick to what works best for him and that is dinking and dunking.

Mine too, but Ian's point, and I've seen this elsewhere, is that Patricia is asking Mac to look downfield too much and not looking for the short gains as much.

 

[Pape]

So hindering the development of your second year QB is better than potentially losing some intel on players from a single school? BOB has been here before and has been a proven and successful offensive coach and has the advantage of having worked with Mac's college coach and his current one. It was a match made in heaven for us but Bill didn't want to piss off his friend. Chad O'Shea is in Cleveland he cant get intel on Mack Wilson from him? Bill has been in and around the league for 50 years. He has dozens and dozens of contacts at all levels of the game. I am sure pissing off Saban would be temporary and they would be yucking it up at Alabama's pro day in a year or two.

Just stop... you are getting too emotional over this... i am only offering possibilities, based on what was written about the topic... you are literally trying to pass off the supposition (that BB didnt recruit BoB due to Saban) as fact based on articles written months ago...

They can get plenty of intel on players from other sources, besides the head coach... i never said otherwise... tape, live scouting, ex girlfriends... whatever... Its one part of intel gathering... Maybe (see? an adverb, which can infer that its not a fact but a possibility) he finds it a valuable source... You want to close off your mind to other possibilities? Be my guest...

When things involve working & personal relationships, it can become complex... Decision making isn't always an off/on process... well, at least to adults it isn't... Sometimes in life just because you can do something doesn't mean you should...

 

[203Pat]

Just stop... you are getting too emotional over this... i am only offering possibilities, based on what was written about the topic... you are literally trying to pass off the supposition (that BB didnt recruit BoB due to Saban) as fact based on articles written months ago...

They can get plenty of intel on players from other sources, besides the head coach... i never said otherwise... tape, live scouting, ex girlfriends... whatever... Its one part of intel gathering... Maybe (see? an adverb, which can infers that its not a fact but a possibility) he finds it a valuable source... You want to close off your mind to other possibilities? Be my guest...

When things involve working & personal relationships, it can become complex... Decision making isn't always an off/on process... well, at least to adults it isn't... Sometimes in life just because you can do something doesn't mean you should...

I'm not the one getting emotional and grasping at straws. Your theory is absurd that we couldn't get intel on superstars like Mack Wilson, who is 4 years removed from Alabama by the way, if Bill offered BOB a job here. If BOB was willing to come here to be the OC and Bill turned him down in favor of a guy who has never called an offensive play than that is nowhere near in the best interest of the team. It is in the best interest of Bill which seems to be Bill's top priority lately.

 

[mike_usagisan]

I'm not the one getting emotional and grasping at straws. Your theory is absurd that we couldn't get intel on superstars like Mack Wilson, who is 4 years removed from Alabama by the way, if Bill offered BOB a job here. If BOB was willing to come here to be the OC and Bill turned him down in favor of a guy who has never called an offensive play than that is nowhere near in the best interest of the team. It is in the best interest of Bill which seems to be Bill's top priority lately.

Let's say, for argument's sake, that it is because Bill didn't want to get BoB for a single season and then lose him and have to get another OC. Is that worth the experiment with Patricia this year, knowing BoB is still available next year?

 

[Pape]

I'm not the one getting emotional and grasping at straws. Your theory is absurd that we couldn't get intel on superstars like Mack Wilson, who is 4 years removed from Alabama by the way, if Bill offered BOB a job here. If BOB was willing to come here to be the OC and Bill turned him down in favor of a guy who has never called an offensive play than that is nowhere near in the best interest of the team. It is in the best interest of Bill which seems to be Bill's top priority lately.

superstars like Mack Wilson? lol ... you'd rate Mack Wilson a superstar? ok, whatever, doesn't matter... Its an illustrative point about how relationships work... You keep trying to hammer this "whats best for the team" point home with a sledge hammer... considering your very vocal anti-BB stance on these boards, its easy to understand the why... just another way to get in a dig or two

But haven't you figured it out yet? RKK may own the franchise, but the Patriots are BBs team. If he thinks its in the Patriots best interest to develop a offensive coordinator instead of bringing in a guy for possibly only a season, that's his decision to make (the whole long term vs short term gains thing). You may not like the decision, you may not agree with the thought process, but until you are part of that decision making process, your opinion on the matter is just as relevant as my "absurd theory".

If developing Matt P as an offensive coordinator - someone who will be here long term is what BB thought was best for the team, then so be it. And since thats whats happening, I would conjecture that is exactly what BB thought... regardless of your personal pet theories

If you want to continue this, move it over to the Patricia as OC thread, and just tag me... this is a bit of a tangent for this thread, better suited for that one

 

[203Pat]

superstars like Mack Wilson? lol ... you'd rate Mack Wilson a superstar? ok, whatever, doesn't matter... Its an illustrative point about how relationships work... You keep trying to hammer this "whats best for the team" point home with a sledge hammer... considering your very vocal anti-BB stance on these boards, its easy to understand the why... just another way to get in a dig or two

But haven't you figured it out yet? RKK may own the franchise, but the Patriots are BBs team. If he thinks its in the Patriots best interest to develop a offensive coordinator instead of bringing in a guy for possibly only a season, that's his decision to make (the whole long term vs short term gains thing). You may not like the decision, you may not agree with the thought process, but until you are part of that decision making process, your opinion on the matter is just as relevant as my "absurd theory".

If developing Matt P as an offensive coordinator - someone who will be here long term is what BB thought was best for the team, then so be it. And since thats whats happening, I would conjecture that is exactly what BB thought... regardless of your personal pet theories

Sarcasm. Do we really need notes from Nick Saban on JAGs like Mack Wilson? That is why we are scared to burn a bridge?

How is that anyone who says anything even remotely negative about Bill is branded as "anti-Bill"? I have said repeatedly that Bill is the best coach who ever lived. Is there some sort of cult I am unaware of where you have to support any and everything Bill does blindly to not be labeled a Bill hater? I questions Bill's recent decisions because this is a fan forum. If you want to go with the "Well if Bill thinks it's best than it must be" then I don't know what to tell you. You seem to subscribe the the school of thinking that Bill is infallible and that's what makes you happy then go for it.

 

[203Pat]

Let's say, for argument's sake, that it is because Bill didn't want to get BoB for a single season and then lose him and have to get another OC. Is that worth the experiment with Patricia this year, knowing BoB is still available next year?

I say yes by a mile. Mac learns from an actual NFL OC and develops in his second year and buys Bill some time to groom Calley or any of the other guys for that matter. Let them learn for a year under O'Brien and see what goes into play calling, game planning an offense, and offensive situational football. That way when BOB leaves those guys have some experience, albeit minimal, and Mac in theory, doesn't spend a year regressing trying to learn an offense at the same time as the guy who is supposed to be teaching it.

 

[Pape]

Sarcasm. Do we really need notes from Nick Saban on JAGs like Mack Wilson? That is why we are scared to burn a bridge?

How is that anyone who says anything even remotely negative about Bill is branded as "anti-Bill"? I have said repeatedly that Bill is the best coach who ever lived. Is there some sort of cult I am unaware of where you have to support any and everything Bill does blindly to not be labeled a Bill hater? I questions Bill's recent decisions because this is a fan forum. If you want to go with the "Well if Bill thinks it's best than it must be" then I don't know what to tell you. You seem to subscribe the the school of thinking that Bill is infallible and that's what makes you happy then go for it.

I have no idea how much information passes thru those channels... But BoB stated, when asked - He is committed to coaching alabama this year (there were a few other teams looking into his services) because of Nick Saban... and to paraphrase a bit here, that when you get fired you find out you don't have as many friends as you thought you did... Relationships within the coaching community are important to these guys...

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Mine too, but Ian's point, and I've seen this elsewhere, is that Patricia is asking Mac to look downfield too much and not looking for the short gains as much.

Defenses began to force Mac to beat them with sideline throws and deep pass routes. The new strategy is more aggressive to allow Mac to counteract that which forced him out of his comfort zone which has led to growing pains in terms of more INTs than last year. The fact that the offense has incrementally improved each game has been lost in the shuffle. If things continued to progress in that direction it is not unrealistic to think that Mac and the offense would be much better as the season wore on.

 

[tasmlab]

I just rewatched this highlight reel of the Ravens game, and for a lot of it, Mac has a real sense of urgency, is pretty fearless, is slinging the ball well. He looks better here than I remember watching on Sunday. Someone could make a case that the 2 of the 3 interceptions (the last two) were either not entirely his fault (number 2) or a necessary risk given the time and scoreboard situation (number 3). FYI/point of interest/this made me like him more.

 

[VrabelJr]

I'm high on Mac, not because of the zip of the ball or some rainbow arch, but because I think he's smart and last year he showed that he could make good decisions with the ball, which is what I want from a QB. Ian had a great post about how that's changed under Patricia as OC, with the guess that Patricia is telling him where to throw the ball rather than letting him make the decision to who is open. That's as good a theory for the regression as any.

I don't think there is any credibility to that theory. QBs get to make their own reads starting in... high school.

 

[Ian]

I just rewatched this highlight reel of the Ravens game, and for a lot of it, Mac has a real sense of urgency, is pretty fearless, is slinging the ball well. He looks better here than I remember watching on Sunday. Someone could make a case that the 2 of the 3 interceptions (the last two) were either not entirely his fault (number 2) or a necessary risk given the time and scoreboard situation (number 3). FYI/point of interest/this made me like him more.

I agree with this. # 3 also saw the ball barely released before he took the hit, as that didn't seem to be the case watching it in real-time.