Is Jackson's start a Bad Omen?

[JR4]

Guess I'm not only one concerned about Jackson's absence. Casale makes
some good points that most here already know.

Casale reports:
Who’s Hot ....
"Who’s Not: Chad Jackson – Rookie receivers in general don’t have a lot of success during their first season in the NFL. That success rate drops even further when a player misses a majority of training camp. We are a week into camp and Jackson has hardly been on the field. He’s participated in two practices so far and that’s not good news for the Patriots. With their receiver position in the shape it’s in, the Patriots need Jackson to come in and make an impact right away. If he’s not on the field building chemistry with Brady in August, it’s hard to imagine that he’s going to make a big splash this fall.

also his report on today's passing game is very disturbing ... but if you
worried ... go read NEM's this best PATs team ever thread .. should make
you feel better ...


Tom Brady’s passes were off the mark most of the day.

When the ball was put on the money, it usually ended up on the ground more often than not. Reche Caldwell, Ben Watson, Bam Childress and Maroney all dropped catchable balls thrown their way. For the most part, all four quarterbacks had a miserable day throwing the football. Very rarely did one of them, including Brady, hit a receiver in stride. After the first week of camp, the Patriots air attack has yet to take off. Overall, a very sloppy practice all around for the offense.


After 13 practices I would think they should be improving not regressing.
.... when does reality set in .... this team is off the mark as of now and if
they don't get it turned around soon they may lose one or more of those early division
games.

http://www.patriots.com/news/index.cfm?ac=latestnewsdetail&pid=20322&pcid=44

 

[ClosingTime]

The large majority of rookie WRs don't contribute significantly. There are exceptions but that is the rule. Missing part of training camp decreases those odds even further. With Branch sitting out it thewre should be warranted concern about the passing game which always takes a while to gel. And I'm sorry but Caldwell is a dog with fleas. Maybe that's too harsh. He's a decent 3rd WR at best.
Jackson's rep coming into the draft is that he didn't like contact. Then again S. Holmes rep coming into the draft was that he was a high character guy so who knows.
A month more before kickoff.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

After 13 practices I would think they should be improving not regressing.

Over 5 weeks until the first game. Coming off a tough camp with more hitting and two a days than usual. This means just slightly more than nothing to me.

 

[drew4008]

I didn't want to make a new thread for this, so I thought I'd put it here.

Is this really Troy Brown like the caption says?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/photo?s...b03189.patriots_football_camp_mass107&prov=ap

 

[pats1]

JR4 - step back. Take a deep breath. Exhale.

Many here have to learn that it is WAY too early to read into small, insignificant things, or jump to any conclusions based on the small sample size (even smaller for Jackson) we have so far. Realize that you WILL get ridiculed.

And I don't buy Casale in either his notes or CampCast on Jackson.

He acts like Jackson has purposely sat out practice or doesn't have a good work ethic to get back in camp. Like Seymour and company on the PUP (Jackson to start off camp), the safe route always needs to be taken. I can't say preseason practices and games are meaningless, as they obviously offer great developmental time, but rushing a player back into camp isn't worth the risk. Casale almost wanted Jackson rushed back into camp, head-first, and that anything else means his development is stunted immediately. That simply isn't the case. The Pats are going to practice a player when they feel fully confident that the risk for re-injury has subsided. Even then, they'll ease the player back into the flow of camp. His unspectacular performance is in direct correlation with that. In the long run, the few practices that he missed or struggled in won't matter, but the fact that he'll be healthy will.

End of story.

 

[pats1]

I didn't want to make a new thread for this, so I thought I'd put it here.

Is this really Troy Brown like the caption says?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/photo?slug=4a2f7a25fff545cfbc64964b51b03189.patriots_football_camp_mass107&prov=ap

No, Walter Rasby (#88). He's wearing a number #18 undershirt though, but #18 is Matt Shelton, a young white guy.

 

[drew4008]

No, Walter Rasby (#88). He's wearing a number #18 undershirt though, but #18 is Matt Shelton, a young white guy.

I knew it wasn't. Thanks for confirming my doubt pats1

 

[drew4008]

What about the next one, http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/photo?s...602c48.patriots_camp_football_macs101&prov=ap. It looks kind of like his face, but damn, those are massive arms for such a little dude.

 

[JR4]

...........................

And I don't buy Casale in either his notes or CampCast on Jackson.

He acts like Jackson has purposely sat out practice or doesn't have a good work ethic to get back in camp. Like Seymour and company on the PUP (Jackson to start off camp), the safe route always needs to be taken. I can't say preseason practices and games are meaningless, as they obviously offer great developmental time, but rushing a player back into camp isn't worth the risk. Casale almost wanted Jackson rushed back into camp, head-first, and that anything else means his development is stunted immediately. That simply isn't the case. The Pats are going to practice a player when they feel fully confident that the risk for re-injury has subsided. Even then, they'll ease the player back into the flow of camp. His unspectacular performance is in direct correlation with that. In the long run, the few practices that he missed or struggled in won't matter, but the fact that he'll be healthy will.

End of story.

You seem to be attributing thoughts to Casale that you can not get from
that article. He stated what he observed and the facts about rookies
missing a lot of training camp. Simple ... straight forward observations and
facts.
You apparently have not listen to many Belichick conferences where he talks
about players missing Training Camp and the effect going into the season.
Contact which they get in TC is very important. How can you trivialize that?

This is my opinion and this is a forum to express opinions ... you don't agree
... fine but you really come off insinuating I should not express my opinion.
I hope that is not what you intended.

I am concerned about the passing game. Sure when Branch get's back and
if Jackson heals ... they will eventually get it together. But when?
By 3rd week into the season or longer? Pats have several early critical
Division games. PATs don't have a half a season to get things right.
Missing 13 practices is NOT trivial.
If Branch gets back and Jackson start having good practices in next week or
two then things will probably work out
.... but right now there is a possibility that may not happen.

I have had pre-season expectations shattered enough times
to realize potential is not reality.

if you have no concerns ...be happy ... count your blessings but you
saying there is nothing to be concerned about does nothing for me.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

No wonder the Pats draft TE. Oh yeah they get injured too. No really, don't freak out just yet. The team just drafted him and the coaches don't want to rush him into action when he isn't fully ready. He will not be another Bethel, trust me.

 

[Remix 6]

Kind of off topic but i odnt wanna start a thread but! BETHEL JOHNSON LADIES AND GENTLEMEN



heat exaustion is what i hear :\

 

[JoeSixPat]

We're the Patriots.
We've got TEs and RBs who catch the ball.
We don't need no stinkin wide receivers!

???????????????


Please tell me we don't need to go over this again.

Why do people think RBs and TEs are often open? Do we think opposing DBs will remain in deep coverage simply out of the goodness of their hearts?

Do we think there might be some teensie weensie strategic advantage in stretching the field and keeping defenses honest?.

It's far too early to be overly worried, but nor do we have a lot of proven talent or depth on WR.

But to suggest that WRs aren't important because of pass catching RBs and TEs? Why don't you suggest that we just do without a QB?

 

[I'm Ron Borges?]

JR4 - step back. Take a deep breath. Exhale.

Many here have to learn that it is WAY too early to read into small, insignificant things, or jump to any conclusions based on the small sample size (even smaller for Jackson) we have so far. Realize that you WILL get ridiculed.

And I don't buy Casale in either his notes or CampCast on Jackson.

He acts like Jackson has purposely sat out practice or doesn't have a good work ethic to get back in camp. Like Seymour and company on the PUP (Jackson to start off camp), the safe route always needs to be taken. I can't say preseason practices and games are meaningless, as they obviously offer great developmental time, but rushing a player back into camp isn't worth the risk. Casale almost wanted Jackson rushed back into camp, head-first, and that anything else means his development is stunted immediately. That simply isn't the case. The Pats are going to practice a player when they feel fully confident that the risk for re-injury has subsided. Even then, they'll ease the player back into the flow of camp. His unspectacular performance is in direct correlation with that. In the long run, the few practices that he missed or struggled in won't matter, but the fact that he'll be healthy will.

End of story.

I too think you are putting words in someone's mouth. Casale loves Jackson and thinks he'll be the No. 1 receiver on this team at some point. I've heard him say it many times. All he is saying is that the rookie needs reps with his QB. And for the record, his injury isn't known for sure. Casale wasn't saying rush him back, he was saying the time he's missing on the field with Brady could hurt his development (short-term) and with the Patriots current receiving corps, they need him to come in and be a factor this year. I don't think that's off the mark at all. It's a "Who's Hot, Who's Not" list. If we did that list on here the Patriots would be Who's Hot and Nobody would be Who's Not. I agree with JR4. It's just an honest observation from a guy who is watching camp. Mrs. B said the offense looked just as bad. I just love how whenever someone in the media says something we don't like, they have it out for the guy. He never said anything about jackson personally, just that he needs to get back on the field as soon as possible so he can help the team win. Do any of us here actually disagree with that assessment? I sure hope not.

 

[pats1]

What about the next one, http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/photo?slug=271525cc87a94498b998280bf8602c48.patriots_camp_football_macs101&prov=ap. It looks kind of like his face, but damn, those are massive arms for such a little dude.

That's Troy.

 

[pats1]

You seem to be attributing thoughts to Casale that you can not get from
that article. He stated what he observed and the facts about rookies
missing a lot of training camp. Simple ... straight forward observations and
facts.
You apparently have not listen to many Belichick conferences where he talks
about players missing Training Camp and the effect going into the season.
Contact which they get in TC is very important. How can you trivialize that?

This is my opinion and this is a forum to express opinions ... you don't agree
... fine but you really come off insinuating I should not express my opinion.
I hope that is not what you intended.

I am concerned about the passing game. Sure when Branch get's back and
if Jackson heals ... they will eventually get it together. But when?
By 3rd week into the season or longer? Pats have several early critical
Division games. PATs don't have a half a season to get things right.
Missing 13 practices is NOT trivial.
If Branch gets back and Jackson start having good practices in next week or
two then things will probably work out
.... but right now there is a possibility that may not happen.

I have had pre-season expectations shattered enough times
to realize potential is not reality.

if you have no concerns ...be happy ... count your blessings but you
saying there is nothing to be concerned about does nothing for me.

Casale wasn't brining straight-out facts, at least in the CampCast. He when directly down a trail of Jackson needs all the camp time he can get = Jackson misses practice = Jackson is not helping himself out/not doing enough to get back out there = Jackson doesn't look good in practice = Jackson could be headed down the wrong path. He also adds in a total generality, saying WRs struggle in their rookie years.

These practices are important, but BB knows they aren't worth rushing a player back from injury and then having a much more serious reoccurance (I'm no M.D., but i.e. a tight hamstring turns is rushed back and turns into a turn hamstring).

My real point is that we're trying to read way too much into this Jackson (non)situation, among others. So much so that, when he returns and struggles in TWO PRACTICES, two-and-two are prematurely put together and conclusions are made with a VERY small sample size.

 

[pats1]

I too think you are putting words in someone's mouth. Casale loves Jackson and thinks he'll be the No. 1 receiver on this team at some point. I've heard him say it many times. All he is saying is that the rookie needs reps with his QB. And for the record, his injury isn't known for sure. Casale wasn't saying rush him back, he was saying the time he's missing on the field with Brady could hurt his development (short-term) and with the Patriots current receiving corps, they need him to come in and be a factor this year. I don't think that's off the mark at all. It's a "Who's Hot, Who's Not" list. If we did that list on here the Patriots would be Who's Hot and Nobody would be Who's Not. I agree with JR4. It's just an honest observation from a guy who is watching camp. Mrs. B said the offense looked just as bad. I just love how whenever someone in the media says something we don't like, they have it out for the guy. He never said anything about jackson personally, just that he needs to get back on the field as soon as possible so he can help the team win. Do any of us here actually disagree with that assessment? I sure hope not.

Again, Casale delved a whole lot more in the CampCast. Read above.

Even so, this line in the report still bugs me:

If he’s not on the field building chemistry with Brady in August, it’s hard to imagine that he’s going to make a big splash this fall.

First off, it's no secret that Jackson is a developmental player in the same sense as Maroney. Both aren't being forced into starting situations - those are left to the vets who Brady is already familar with (Branch, Brown, Watson, Graham) or those who he's seeing a lot of time with in camp (Caldwell).

Secondly, missing less than a dozen early training camp practices doesn't mean it's going to affect a player in November or December. Every situation is different, so Brady could gel in a few practices with one player while it takes a whole month to gel with another. However, trying to rush back a player just to get a few more hours of practice time in when a player is not fully ready and then having him get injured again is much worse. Instead of a handful of practices, the player is going to be knocked out initially, then into rehab, then working his way back into the flow of practices. In the end, more detailed and comprehensive practices of the latter preseason and early season are missed, along with any workout time that was missed immediately after the injury that wouldn't have if the player was on the bike instead of the field in early training camp.

Jackson is a talented player enough to compensate for the orientation-style, early-training camp practice time he missed that more valuable to the Matt Shelton's and Erik Davis' of the world.

What really matters in the end is (slips on rose-colored glasses) that BB will do what's best for the player and team both in the short and long-term. Whatever Jackson - or any other player - does is a direct reflection of that.

The source of that reflection, you say?

 

[JR4]

.....
My real point is that we're trying to read way too much into this Jackson (non)situation, among others. So much so that, when he returns and struggles in TWO PRACTICES, two-and-two are prematurely put together and conclusions are made with a VERY small sample size. ...

I don't think reading into or speculating is necessary. It is what it is .... he has
not been practicing in full pads with his teammates .... getting hit and getting
his timing down with his QB. It is reaching a point of being critical.
If he and Deion not back next week or two it will be critical. Deion will
get back into things quickly, we hope. But the rookie needs time.

I sure wouldn't want PATs to start the season with the way the passing game
looks right now.

Also I suggest that If Deion decides to go to week 10 as
some have speculated, then Jackson not being in camp is critical NOW!

I think Brady senses that and is why he commented to SI. He know it has to
get resolved very very soon or the offense will start the season not where it
needs to be.

 

[IcyPatriot]

I am really disturbed that the wonder boy WR hasn't got a nub NFL contact
without ending up being absent.
I was sure impressed with his ability to catch in those advertising flicks.
But is this another Bethel in progress? Great Potential unrealized?
Very disturbing ... the kid is now a week and 12 some odd practices behind.
So is this an Omen of things to come with Chad Jackson?

You need a few sips of Kool-Aid.

 

[pats1]

I don't think reading into or speculating is necessary. It is what it is .... he has
not been practicing in full pads with his teammates .... getting hit and getting
his timing down with his QB. It is reaching a point of being critical.
If he and Deion not back next week or two it will be critical. Deion will
get back into things quickly, we hope. But the rookie needs time.

I sure wouldn't want PATs to start the season with the way the passing game
looks right now.

Also I suggest that If Deion decides to go to week 10 as
some have speculated, then Jackson not being in camp is critical NOW!

I think Brady senses that and is why he commented to SI. He know it has to
get resolved very very soon or the offense will start the season not where it
needs to be.

Critical?!?

When does Branch play in the preseason, anyway?

It's August 4th, for chrissakes. Not September 4th. If Branch isn't ready by then and Jackson struggled or missed all of camp, then we can call it critical.

A week into training camp, and suddenly a player - and entire unit's regular season success is in jeopardy. Doesn't that sound familar to a week into free agency, when the board was overrun with "Have Beioli lost their touch" naysayers?

And for the record, predictions are bull****, omens are bull****, and superstitions are bull****.

That's all, folks.

 

[JR4]

.........
Secondly, missing less than a dozen early training camp practices doesn't mean it's going to affect a player in November or December.

........

Won't mean a thing in November or December if they've lost the division
in the early part of the season. PATs need to be very good right away
this year ..... if lowely Jets and Bills can split with us then it is possible
Miami could take two ... and all this could be set up in first five weeks of
the season. If it happened that way PATs could lose the Division and maybe
not even make the playoffs. Being good early this year is necessary. IMO