A) I did not attribute all the list arguments to you. You are much more reasonable that that. I believe all the arguments have been made on in this thread (or perhaps in tone of the other WR threads). And, yes there are those who have stated the Edelman is our best nickel and one who said he is our best free safety. I think that we agree that we don't want Edelman to see reps on defense.
B) I agree that there is only one ST/emergency ILB position and that position seems to belong to Tracey White. I think it very possible that Koutouvides is competing with Mickel Carter for the last linebacker position.
C) I mention Hobbs and Tate because they were exceptional kick returners that were cut. Perhaps you believe that Belichick wouldn't do the same to an above average punt returner.
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THE CRITICAL DISCUSSION - EDELMAN AS WIDE RECIEVER
You have said Edelman should be valued strictly as a receiver. OK. Obviously, being a punt is a plus. Playing several special teams is a plus, but in the end, Edelman makes it or not as a receiver.
We use the term #3 to mean both the 3rd best receiver and the slot receiver. We need to be more consistent.
I will accept the traditional analysis. We have 5 wide receiver positions (not counting Slater's ST position).
We have 2 "starting" WR positions. For our team, one of these is a slot receiver. Welker and Lloyd have these spots.
THREE POSITIONS PLUS TWO BACKUPS
We have TWO backup positions, and three positions to backup. If one backup is good enough, I suppose that we could carry a rookie developmental receiver (this year's Price). At lest one of these players will be inactive each week. The active player must be a special teamer.
If indeed Edelman is by far out best backup for Welker (a fine prospect as a receiver), then Edelman is a no-brainer for one of the roster spots. However, it would seem that Belichick would have found some way to use Edelman's vast talent at WR in the last 2 years, given the he was always active. Also, there would be little need for a developmental draftee.
POSITION NUMBER THREE
The third receiver should gets lots of reps as the #5 receiver target. He needn't be a special teamer. We have Branch, Johnson, Stallworth and Gonzo all competing for this ONE roster spot.
POSITION FOUR OR FIVE: BACKUP SLOT RECEIVER
This player could also have other skills. Edelman is competing with Gonzo and Branch for this position. Edelman had this spot last year.
POSITION FOUR OR FIVE: THE LAST RECEIVER
Price and then Underwood had this spot last year. This position could again be given to developmental player, perhaps a draftee. It could be given to a returner. It could be given to Branch, Stallworth, Johnson or Gonzo. Absent injuries, this position would almost always be inactive. Josh could change up the offense and have 5 receivers and 3 TE's active. This seems most unlikely.
BOTTOM LINE
Yes, Edelman may be more likely to make the 53 than any ONE of the backup candidates. However, Belichick has brought in lots of competition and could bring in more via the draft.
I am not yet comfortable with Welker, Lloyd, veteran, Edelman, draftee. However, it is significant improvement over 2011. I prefer Welker, Lloyd, veteran, Edelman, veteran.
This is a HUGE improvement over 2011. There is solid game Day threesome plus Edelman. In addition, there is injury protection from the 5th roster position.
You could be right, its probably a matter of White's expertise on ST's vs Koutouvides potential as a coverage LB + his ST's skills. But would you agree to the overall point that we don't need BOTH players and only one will make the roster?
I have NEVER said in ANY post that I thought Edelman was our 3rd most valuable WR. What I DID say was I see his receiving role as Welker's back up. I would see the #3 WR's role as being the other WR outside the hash. The Ocho/Stallworth. But the number is meaningless since whomever it is, is still just going to be the 5th option most of the time.
Tate had just ONE punt return in his NE career. Hobbs had none. Both were KO returners for us. So I don't get that point? Edelman has never been seen as JUST a PR. In fact I don't think BB has ever kept JUST a PR
I would challenge you to find where I have said that. The only superlative I've ever associated with Edelman on defense is that he seemed to be one of the best tacklers among the DBs A coach's dream. One of the few DB's you see these days that form up to make a hit, rather than just throw his body at the ball carrier and hope for the best. (which we see too often btw). But I digress....
Now I think that, if he just played defense, he COULD develop enough to play in the league in some position. But I never thought that he SHOULD switch. I think he's going to be a fine slot receiver in this league someday....for someone.
I've never said that either. I would say he is our best BACK UP slot receiver, and is worth the roster spot, unless someone else (say Gonsales) can prove he is better at it.
Actually I DISAGREE with this.ou keep or let go Edelman strict I would say that yly on the basis of his play at receiver. The only time the defensive component should play a part is as a last tie breaker
Well, MG, BB is showing this off season the kind of importance he is placing on special teams this season. There will be plenty of competition this TC between established special teams aces for roster spots. So the fact that Edelman has proven that he is a better than average PR, a willing at least KR, a competent coverage guy, as well as the back up slot receiver.....can't hurt his chances
I'm not sure, MG where you got those "5 arguments" from, but my point all along is that Edelman is at no greater risk to lose his roster spot than ANY WR not named Lloyd or Welker. And if anything his chances are higher because of his special teams play across the board.....as it is with every regular position player who also plays special teams.
NOT playing special teams (if they indeed don't ) will make it that much harder for guys like Ocho, Branch, and Gonsales to ultimately make it. Because ultimately we are talking about the #5 option. I think you have to offer more than that to make the team
