Interesting stat

[jimnance]

Team YAC stats are useless without context.

Couldn't agree more. Here's the context: not all stats are created equal. Points allowed is by far the most important according to BB and really anyone who knows defense. the Pats are #3 I believe. That carries more weight than pretty much all the stats you posted in this thread , plus the yac stats I posted, combined. The only potential disclaimer is a fairly easy schedule. But you can only play who you play. Remains to be seen how the Pats D plays in big games- but for you to say its a "bad" defense has no basis in reality and you have failed in your attempt to back it up with a bunch of minor stats. Put down the crack pipe.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Team YAC stats are useless without context.

Where's the love?

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

My post was already up, with both positive and negative stats already among the stats I'd posted. I just continued to flesh out the point.



In sports, as in many areas of life, almost all stats need context, whether the person using them is framing them as positives, negatives or neutrals. My pointing that out should have been completely non-controversial. It certainly shouldn't have led to people foolishly clicking the disagree button, nor should it have led to you posting the response you initially did.



It should come as no surprise, if you look at the team's schedule. The only tests on the schedule were supposed to be:

Arizona (season long flame out)
Bengals (season long flame out)
Pittsburgh (Big Ben missing)
Seattle (Loss at home)
Ravens (sorta, kinda, maybe, but not yet)
Broncos (not yet)

So, the only real test of the Patriots ended with a home loss. The mediots won't be satisfied at least until/unless the Patriots handily defeat the Broncos, and they shouldn't be. None of us should be satisfied until at least then, either.




This team is trending a lot like other teams we've seen with Brady being weighed down by a middling/bad defense. It should be no surprise, therefore, if people are concerned that this team might end up like other teams we've seen with Brady being weighed down by a middling/bad defense.



God bless, and enjoy the rest of your weekend.

I'm muddling in the fair-to-middling estimation of our maddening defense, pending Matt's hopefully effective meddling.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I want to be a wise ass and write:

"Isn't effective tackling after allowing a wide open reception similar to putting on a condom after getting busy?"

But that is not my nature

The heck with it, let's put Scar in charge of the defense, too

 

[Deus Irae]

Couldn't agree more. Here's the context: not all stats are created equal. Points allowed is by far the most important according to BB and really anyone who knows defense. the Pats are #3 I believe. That carries more weight than pretty much all the stats you posted in this thread , plus the yac stats I posted, combined. The only potential disclaimer is a fairly easy schedule. But you can only play who you play. Remains to be seen how the Pats D plays in big games- but for you to say its a "bad" defense has no basis in reality and you have failed in your attempt to back it up with a bunch of minor stats. Put down the crack pipe.

You'd have to be crazy not to understand that the D has not been a top unit, or that BB has been unhappy with it. You'd have to be willfully blind not to see that the stats I laid out paint a more in-depth picture just than your team YAC stat, or even just the points against stat.

But you be you.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm muddling in the fair-to-middling estimation of our maddening defense, pending Matt's hopefully effective meddling.

Pretty much. It's a sub-par defense that needs to get better. And it needs to get a lot better, really, or we're going to be faced with Brady needing to carry the whole damned team again. What the team's got going for it is that this is a crap year, as far as opponent quarterbacks being faced. What the team may not have going for it is that luck continuing come playoff time.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

You'd have to be crazy not to understand that the D has not been a top unit, or that BB has been unhappy with it. You'd have to be willfully blind not to see that the stats I laid out paint a more in-depth picture just than your team YAC stat, or even just the points against stat.

But you be you.

It's not too late. Coaches need to show some leadership and inspiration. Players need encouragement to trust each other and improve. Offense can help out by trying to hold the ball and control the game.

 

[deroc5050]

My post was already up, with both positive and negative stats already among the stats I'd posted. I just continued to flesh out the point.



In sports, as in many areas of life, almost all stats need context, whether the person using them is framing them as positives, negatives or neutrals. My pointing that out should have been completely non-controversial. It certainly shouldn't have led to people foolishly clicking the disagree button, nor should it have led to you posting the response you initially did.



It should come as no surprise, if you look at the team's schedule. The only tests on the schedule were supposed to be:

Arizona (season long flame out)
Bengals (season long flame out)
Pittsburgh (Big Ben missing)
Seattle (Loss at home)
Ravens (sorta, kinda, maybe, but not yet)
Broncos (not yet)

So, the only real test of the Patriots ended with a home loss. The mediots won't be satisfied at least until/unless the Patriots handily defeat the Broncos, and they shouldn't be. None of us should be satisfied until at least then, either.




This team is trending a lot like other teams we've seen with Brady being weighed down by a middling/bad defense. It should be no surprise, therefore, if people are concerned that this team might end up like other teams we've seen with Brady being weighed down by a middling/bad defense.



God bless, and enjoy the rest of your weekend.

The 2 things I would state are this... there really doesn't seem to be any dominant defenses in the NFL this year.

The other thing I would say is... The patriots really haven't played that many high powered offenses and when they did go up against 2 of them, the QB (Ben didn't play) and Seattle scored 31 on us at home. And at the time we played Seattle I wasn't even considering them a high powered offense. They were definitely sputtering on O, Seattle has come alive as of late.

I hope this isn't a repeat of 2011, we get to the SB and we lose it cause our D can't make any plays. And once again I will put that on Bill for getting rid of some of his best talent on the defensive side.

Like Dion Branch in 06"... Its hard to question Bill but Brady is just that good he masks a lot of free agent/drafting mistakes.

 

[Deus Irae]

It's not too late. Coaches need to show some leadership and inspiration. Players need encouragement to trust each other and improve. Offense can help out by trying to hold the ball and control the game.

When we take a look at the run/pass splits, and especially when we combing runs with short passes to the 3dRBs, we see that the offense is doing just that (or at least it seems to be doing just that).

As for the players, that's the problem I was looking at in the position-by-position thread. Where's all the improvement supposed to come from, really?

 

[chasa]

stats schmats. you take your analytics and your rankings and you leave SIR.

When i smell this defense it doesnt pass the smell test.

it doesnt pass the eye test either, this defense isn't 20/20 its 20/10 at BEST!

this team will be lucky to win 8 games this season with this defense!

/sarcastic rolleyes at every single debbie downer who actually thinks this defense is bottom of the league bad,

 

[Ring 6]

Just some follow up stats, showing why the context matters:

The Patriots defense is #1 in opponent starting position

Yet

The Patriots defense is #25 in opponent scoring percentage

and

While the Patriots defense is #2 in points allowed, and is #1 in YAC,
The Patriots defense is only (relative to being #2 total) #9 in points allowed per drive

Why?

The Patriots defense is #31 in opponent turnover percentage
The Patriots defense is #27 in interceptions
The Patriots defense is #20 in 3rd down percentage
The Patriots defense is #13 in Net yards per pass attempt
The Patriots defense is #14 in defensive passer rating
The Patriots defense is #14 in defensive completion percentage
The Patriots defense is #18 in number of 20yds+ plays allowed
The Patriots defense is #18 in defensive TOP

Which all adds up to being #3 in points allowed, the sum of the parts.

 

[deroc5050]

stats schmats. you take your analytics and your rankings and you leave SIR.

When i smell this defense it doesnt pass the smell test.

it doesnt pass the eye test either, this defense isn't 20/20 its 20/10 at BEST!

this team will be lucky to win 8 games this season with this defense!

/sarcastic rolleyes at every single debbie downer who actually thinks this defense is bottom of the league bad,

Which all adds up to being #3 in points allowed, the sum of the parts.

Stats don't mean anything except for the stat you like to use.. there #3 in points!
This D doesn't pass the eye test, at least not yet. Remember they haven't played many high powered offenses.

 

[Ring 6]

Stats don't mean anything except for the stat you like to use.. there #3 in points!
This D doesn't pass the eye test, at least not yet. Remember they haven't played many high powered offenses.

They can only play who is in the schedule.
It's not the stat "I like to use" it's the stat that wins or loses games.
Your eye test is meaningless to me.

 

[Deus Irae]

Which all adds up to being #3 in points allowed, the sum of the parts.

You agreed to disagree. Are you really going to go down this path again?

You're not an idiot, and you know this is not the 3rd best defense in the NFL, so knock it off, already. But thank you for making my point about context as, even with all the supporting stats, the Patriots having the #3 points allowed stat still needs even more context (opponents played, QBs played, etc...).

 

[Canuck]

Patriots defense against the pass and run is not that great. Overall they are rated around 17th. One stat that stands out is they are 9th in allowing passing TD and 9th for allowing Rushing TD. They give up alot of yards but in the Red Zone they are among the best in not allowing teams to score TDs. Although they are tied for 17th in sacks, they are rated 8th in hurries. It's interesting to note that Sheard leads the team in hurries but BB is still unhappy with his play.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Just some follow up stats, showing why the context matters:

The Patriots defense is #1 in opponent starting position

Yet

The Patriots defense is #25 in opponent scoring percentage

[more excellent stuff snipped]

Thank you for giving an important example (among many) of how the apologists' focus on PPG overlooks how the things NE does well masks the team's defensive deficiencies. In this case, a combination of a good offense (even when it doesn't score it generally succeeds in "flipping" the field) and good kick coverage helps hide defensive flaws by forcing opponents to have to go on longer drives to score.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

When we take a look at the run/pass splits, and especially when we combing runs with short passes to the 3dRBs, we see that the offense is doing just that (or at least it seems to be doing just that).

As for the players, that's the problem I was looking at in the position-by-position thread. Where's all the improvement supposed to come from, really?

Let's see how they look tomorrow in East Rutherford

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

They can only play who is in the schedule.
It's not the stat "I like to use" it's the stat that wins or loses games.
Your eye test is meaningless to me.

How much do you think the defense needs to improve over the next six weeks...are you confident they'll be ready to deal with whoever we face in the postseason?

 

[Ring 6]

How much do you think the defense needs to improve over the next six weeks...are you confident they'll be ready to deal with whoever we face in the postseason?

I can only judge how they have played. I don't believe in guessing at what they will do in different situations against different teams.
Against the bills they allowed a garbage time td that I think we can all agree was irrelevant because it was backups v backups with 30 seconds left and a 24 point lead. If we dismiss this the defense has allowed 17 or less in 7 of its last 8. I think that any defense that allows 17 or less 7 times out of 8 is plenty good enough to win the SB unless it doesn't have a quality offense.
I have no interest in picking pieces out of good overall defensive performances to guess that they could produce different results in unknown future games.

 

[jimnance]

You'd have to be crazy not to understand that the D has not been a top unit, or that BB has been unhappy with it. You'd have to be willfully blind not to see that the stats I laid out paint a more in-depth picture just than your team YAC stat, or even just the points against stat.

But you be you.

Theres 2 separate issues here: 1. how the D has performed so far this year and 2. how we think theyll fare thru the rest of the season/postseason. For #1-the only way you can be subjective is look at results. and the results are 8-2, #3 in pts allowed. Since none of us are experts and BB is-Ill defer to his rating of a defense-which he has stated many many times is points allowed. As i said before, the one disclaimer i agree with you on is the weak schedule. There is no such thing as the eye test, as we both know. Thats something people who dont undrstand the intricacies of football throw out to cover up their ignorance. I know you know better. As for #2-i agree with you much more than i disagree. Yes, I dont think BB is content with where the D is and neither am i.Im most worried about the depth-the only D unit with any depth is the secondary. God help the Pats if Hightower goes down. But theres lots of good news-among the serious SB contenders-the only one that has 2 strong units-O and D-is seattle. and neither of those units is overwhelming. Dallas and Pittsburgh both have weaker D's than NE and once NE is fully healthy-i think NE also will have a stronger O than both. Denvers D has nor been measurably better so far than NE's-but Ill concede that they have a bettter D than NE. But their offense doesnt scare anybody. There are some ways the D can improve-the biggest is for Sheard to step up. As nink gets healthier and flowers contiues to blossom-that should help sheard not have to carry the whole load. If that happens, the pass rush should improve-Offenses will have to account for more than just Hightower rushing inside. Obviusly a better pass rush helps the secondary. Remains to be seen if sheard's play gets better.