Inside the most dysfunctional Pats season under BB

[captain stone]

I don't' know about that. He's going to be 71 and has maybe three years tops. Is he going to want to uproot himself, install his system, cut all the dead weight from the previous coaching regime (players and coaches) and basically start from scratch? I think time is against him.

Agree.

A team that's a "coach away" from contention is further away than a team that's a player away from contention.

Also agree, unless that one player is a QB.

 

[captain stone]

That's it. Right there.

The idea that free agents aren't going to come to New England because we don't win enough games or whatever is bull. It's true for a few guys who "want to go to a contender" but there's not that many that can command that kind of sway.

Realistically, the Lions get free agents, the Cardinals get free agents, even the Cobra Commanders get free agents. Players go where they get paid. The rest is just noise.

But Tom Brady's former team has to OVERPAY more than those other teams to bring them here.

 

[patfanken]

I keep reading how we need to forget what happened just this year or the Covid year, because the past is the past and we need to look to the future. What is more relevant to the future, what's happened the prior 3 years or what happened during a 20 year span that ended 4 years ago?

The same posters that want to move on from recent history never miss a chance to expound on the 20-year dynasties. The fact of the matter is the DYNASTY is DEAD. The only relevant person that remains from the dynasty years is Bill Belichick.

The dynasty had a winning formula. Now, we're expecting to recreate that formula w/ only one ingredient. It's like trying to make a cake w/ just eggs or flour.

We're in a new era. Nothing that happened prior matters. This new era has started off w/ no division wins, 2 losing seasons, and a .490 winning record. That's just not good enough. During the entire 20 years, the Pats didn't win the division 3 times, missed the playoffs 3 times, had 1 losing season, and went only 2 years in a row w/o winning a playoff game. Now, we've gone 4 straight years w/o a playoff win. It is what it is.

Here's an interesting comparison. Papa Bear won the NFL Championship in 1963 at 68 yo. In the four seasons following that win he went 26-27 w/ 2 losing seasons and no playoff wins before retiring at 72.

Take a chill pill, V.

The last 3 seasons are a product of the Pats going ALL IN at the end of the last decade. They are paying the price of going to THREE superbowls in 4 years and going 8-0 the following season before the wheels started to come off. After 2019 the Pats were in cap hell with an aging and injured roster. As we entered the 2020 season a REBUILD was clearly needed. We have actually been through this twice before, though through those rebuilds we STILL managed to compete for championships and win playoff games most years.

Fortunately for us during those first 2 "rebuilds on the fly" the QB position wasn't an issue. In this one, between a fading Cam Newton and a rookie only exacerbated the rebuild this time, yet STILL the team won 25 games over the last 3 seasons. They were very competitive and in each year they were in the playoff run until the last game of the season. Granted they weren't the kind of teams we were used to, but still competitive. There have been no seasons where the playoffs were out of the question like so many teams have.

Now the AFCE looks like one of the strongest in the league. YEARS of getting high draft picks has improved all 3 teams, just like DECADES of getting low picks made it harder to hit on elite players. And the admitted weak drafts of the last 3 of the last 4 seasons hurt has well. And it is clear that this 3rd rebuild is at least a year away of coming to fruition lets see if the adding of BOB and the rest of the new offensive staff members will make a difference on a bad offense

Meanwhile the defense looks like its in good hands and might improve greatly with the addition of one more inside pass rusher and bigger corners. And with 11 draft picks and the cap space to add at least one impact player I think the Pats will be OK for the next season. Of course that will depend on if BOB can get Mac back to improve on his 2021 level of performance .

This team COULD be just an stud OT, DT, and CB away from being a pretty good team.

BTW- It looks like Fangio might ready to leave to Dolphins at the altar and go to SF and replace Ryans. That would be a good thing

 

[mike_usagisan]

But Tom Brady's former team has to OVERPAY more than those other teams to bring them here.

Maybe, but not significantly enough to warrant all this hand wringing.

Despite the opinions on this board of the Pats as a free agent destination, I HIGHLY doubt free agents look at New England in the same class as the Browns or the Cobra Commanders.

 

[203Pat]

Take a chill pill, V.

The last 3 seasons are a product of the Pats going ALL IN at the end of the last decade. They are paying the price of going to THREE superbowls in 4 years and going 8-0 the following season before the wheels started to come off. After 2019 the Pats were in cap hell with an aging and injured roster. As we entered the 2020 season a REBUILD was clearly needed. We have actually been through this twice before, though through those rebuilds we STILL managed to compete for championships and win playoff games most years.

Fortunately for us during those first 2 "rebuilds on the fly" the QB position wasn't an issue. In this one, between a fading Cam Newton and a rookie only exacerbated the rebuild this time, yet STILL the team won 25 games over the last 3 seasons. They were very competitive and in each year they were in the playoff run until the last game of the season. Granted they weren't the kind of teams we were used to, but still competitive. There have been no seasons where the playoffs were out of the question like so many teams have.

Now the AFCE looks like one of the strongest in the league. YEARS of getting high draft picks has improved all 3 teams, just like DECADES of getting low picks made it harder to hit on elite players. And the admitted weak drafts of the last 3 of the last 4 seasons hurt has well. And it is clear that this 3rd rebuild is at least a year away of coming to fruition lets see if the adding of BOB and the rest of the new offensive staff members will make a difference on a bad offense

Meanwhile the defense looks like its in good hands and might improve greatly with the addition of one more inside pass rusher and bigger corners. And with 11 draft picks and the cap space to add at least one impact player I think the Pats will be OK for the next season. Of course that will depend on if BOB can get Mac back to improve on his 2021 level of performance .

This team COULD be just an stud OT, DT, and CB away from being a pretty good team.

BTW- It looks like Fangio might ready to leave to Dolphins at the altar and go to SF and replace Ryans. That would be a good thing

Oh is that all?

 

[Calhoun44]

Bad player management has gone on for years, but covered up by Brady and the rest of the core players. The national media has asked many times why the Pats constantly have no cap when they hardly have any big contracts? Because of bad drafts, Bill has flooded the roster with overpriced veteran mid tier contracts which prevented Bill from actually signing hits in the draft, FA/trades like Deon Branch, David Givens, Richard Seymour, Chandler Jones, Akiem Hicks, extending Gilmore or just trading him during 2020, JC Jackson and Joe Thuney. I would've added Trey Flowers to the mix, but he was not worthy of that massive contract he got from Patricia who should've been fired before signing him. Then you have Bill in the early years letting Ty Law go on the verge of a 3 peat and no plan at LB after Brushci suffered a stroke and other LB's leaving such as Ted Johnson and Roman Phiffer.

Tough crowd. Okay, being frustrated with the recent results from the 2022 season is understandable and I can stretch me brain to get there if I want to go with "the half-full glass" scenario, but complaining about the player management from years gone by after the dynasty that BB put together and nurtured is a bit "interesting" to me. That seems like a major reach to me.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Take a chill pill, V.

The last 3 seasons are a product of the Pats going ALL IN at the end of the last decade. They are paying the price of going to THREE superbowls in 4 years and going 8-0 the following season before the wheels started to come off. After 2019 the Pats were in cap hell with an aging and injured roster. As we entered the 2020 season a REBUILD was clearly needed. We have actually been through this twice before, though through those rebuilds we STILL managed to compete for championships and win playoff games most years.

Fortunately for us during those first 2 "rebuilds on the fly" the QB position wasn't an issue. In this one, between a fading Cam Newton and a rookie only exacerbated the rebuild this time, yet STILL the team won 25 games over the last 3 seasons. They were very competitive and in each year they were in the playoff run until the last game of the season. Granted they weren't the kind of teams we were used to, but still competitive. There have been no seasons where the playoffs were out of the question like so many teams have.

Now the AFCE looks like one of the strongest in the league. YEARS of getting high draft picks has improved all 3 teams, just like DECADES of getting low picks made it harder to hit on elite players. And the admitted weak drafts of the last 3 of the last 4 seasons hurt has well. And it is clear that this 3rd rebuild is at least a year away of coming to fruition lets see if the adding of BOB and the rest of the new offensive staff members will make a difference on a bad offense

Meanwhile the defense looks like its in good hands and might improve greatly with the addition of one more inside pass rusher and bigger corners. And with 11 draft picks and the cap space to add at least one impact player I think the Pats will be OK for the next season. Of course that will depend on if BOB can get Mac back to improve on his 2021 level of performance .

This team COULD be just an stud OT, DT, and CB away from being a pretty good team.

BTW- It looks like Fangio might ready to leave to Dolphins at the altar and go to SF and replace Ryans. That would be a good thing

The continuous run of success is the most impressive part of BB's tenure. Rebuilding on the fly like no other team in history. While I slightly disagree that the team competed for championships during the first rebuild, they did make the playoffs year after year. The sad part about OC gate is that the team should have repeated the same pattern with an inexperienced QB. The Cam year, which was almost a complete tear down, should have been the only year out of the playoffs. I am sure that BB is very angry at himself for tarnishing his legacy.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Tough crowd. Okay, being frustrated with the recent results from the 2022 season is understandable and I can stretch me brain to get there if I want to go with "the half-full glass" scenario, but complaining about the player management from years gone by after the dynasty that BB put together and nurtured is a bit "interesting" to me. That seems like a major reach to me.

Those examples were included because they were the most significant and had a direct impact on the 10 year drought. In fact, we should be considered lucky they won 3 more titles with such horrible drafts and player management after 2012. Tom and the core that was drafted between 2009-2012 carried the team. No other teams get away with that.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Oh is that all?

Give Bill all-pros at OT, C, CB, DT, LB, WR, and a superstar QB, and other upgrades, and we’ll see who’s laughing about the rebuild.

 

[Calhoun44]

I do: That was Then; This is Now.

27-30...that's Jeff Fisher sh!t right there...

Jeff Fisher? Really? That seems a bit of a stretch. What did Jeff Fisher ever do to deserve to be used as a comp for BB? I remember just last year how so many people (maybe you were not one of those people) thought BB did one of his best coaching jobs with a rookie QB and the lack of overall talent on the roster, yet still making the playoffs. So now after one year where they just missed the playoffs despite the disaster on offense, all of a sudden, he is Jeff Fisher. I understand the frustration, I just think it is a year too early. If this trend continues next year, I'll be more understanding of this viewpoint. (Still will never compare him to Jeff Fisher though ).

 

[DaBruinz]

I keep asking you the same thing, bud. What do you want to do? I get the feeling you're just gonna b!tch until Bill is gone.

I don't know that it's as big of a deal as us fans think it is. This is a job. They aren't in high school. To coin a phase, do the job. Winning goes a long way to curing it all. No one is going out for pizza or stopping at Mickey D's after road wins with Bill after games. The players need the info they need to do their jobs successfully. Does Bill and his staff get them that? They sure as hell didn't this year. That's the real problem, IMO.

I followed Winovitch while he was here, he was pretty active on social media. I just don't see it as that big of a deal.

Bill probably looks at it as a distraction. Especially for players who aren't performing up to expectations (ala Winovich). Bill probably thinks that if you're not performing up to expectations, than you shouldn't have time for MyFace or TwitChat or whatever.

You're correct that the offensive coaching staff didn't do their job. It starts at Belichick, goes to Patricia, Judge, Caley, Brown, Douglas, Sunseri etc. It absolutely sucked that Belichick didn't stop the experiment and take over things at the end of September. Maybe the fact that the team was 2-2 clouded that judgement. Who knows. We DO know that he partially corrected by relieving Judge of some of his duties. It's just too bad he didn't remove Patricia as the play-caller sooner. I think that if BB had been calling plays and doing the QB coaching, the offense would have been smoother, though coaching doesn't account for having to use 5 different RTs.

 

[Steve102]

Bill probably looks at it as a distraction. Especially for players who aren't performing up to expectations (ala Winovich). Bill probably thinks that if you're not performing up to expectations, than you shouldn't have time for MyFace or TwitChat or whatever.

You're correct that the offensive coaching staff didn't do their job. It starts at Belichick, goes to Patricia, Judge, Caley, Brown, Douglas, Sunseri etc. It absolutely sucked that Belichick didn't stop the experiment and take over things at the end of September. Maybe the fact that the team was 2-2 clouded that judgement. Who knows. We DO know that he partially corrected by relieving Judge of some of his duties. It's just too bad he didn't remove Patricia as the play-caller sooner. I think that if BB had been calling plays and doing the QB coaching, the offense would have been smoother, though coaching doesn't account for having to use 5 different RTs.

There's posts here that show Bill did take over some of the play calling. The man spread himself too thin, and that's 100% is fault for picking the wrong guys.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Jeff Fisher? Really? That seems a bit of a stretch. What did Jeff Fisher ever do to deserve to be used as a comp for BB? I remember just last year how so many people (maybe you were not one of those people) thought BB did one of his best coaching jobs with a rookie QB and the lack of overall talent on the roster, yet still making the playoffs. So now after one year where they just missed the playoffs despite the disaster on offense, all of a sudden, he is Jeff Fisher. I understand the frustration, I just think it is a year too early. If this trend continues next year, I'll be more understanding of this viewpoint. (Still will never compare him to Jeff Fisher though ).

He's getting this comparison because like Jeff Fisher, when the talent drained, he got exposed as just another coach. The team is has been undisciplined and dysfunctional as well which was a Jeff Fisher trait.

 

[Calhoun44]

Those examples were included because they were the most significant and had a direct impact on the 10 year drought. In fact, we should be considered lucky they won 3 more titles with such horrible drafts and player management after 2012. Tom and the core that was drafted between 2009-2012 carried the team. No other teams get away with that.

I understand why they were included, but they were not made in a vacuum, they were made in the context of building a team that the HC thought would win SB's while having the GOAT at QB. It worked quite well.

The 10-year drought you refer to was not during a period of terrible seasons and many blow out losses. It seems very entitled to complain about the overall record of BB as a HC. Sure, everyone wishes they could go back and get the refs to call holding on the Giants OL-man and for Rodney to dislodge the ball or for Asante to catch the ball or for Brady and Welker to connect on the wide-open play that would have resulted in a 1st down and sealed the game, but it didn't happen. It sucked; we didn't win. We had our chance; the players didn't get it done and the coaches didn't do quite enough. Or maybe the team on the other side of the ball deserves some credit for being professional players and coming through in the clutch.

 

[ralmat55]

Beware of, and be aware of, what you don't know re. seemingly "obvious" events/situations. A perspective that's especially prudent in this case and observing NFL football in general.

The same can be said for the even more dangerous “beware of what you know but aren’t willing to believe “ . Give it up guys. Nothing occurred that justified Butler’s benching. It gets more obvious with every passing day.

 

[Calhoun44]

He's getting this comparison because like Jeff Fisher, when the talent drained, he got exposed a just another coach. The team is has been undisciplined and dysfunctional as well which was a Jeff Fisher trait.

Jeff Fisher had 21 full seasons as a HC, he had:
6 seasons with a winning record
5 seasons finishing at .500
10 seasons with a losing record

Can we stop with the Jeff Fisher comparisons now? It's a bit disingenuous, don't you think?

 

[venecol]

I keep asking you the same thing, bud. What do you want to do? I get the feeling you're just gonna b!tch until Bill is gone.

When many posters kept on pointing out that N'Keal Harry was a bust, over and over again, were they *****ing? When it turned out that even Bill acknowledged it by trading him, were those posters proven to be correct by pointing out the obvious?

What's the difference?

What do I want to do? I want to move away from a model that was successful for a long period of time based on a certain formula that no longer works. Can that be done with Bill still at the helm? Maybe. Will Bill change his model to get it done? There's no evidence that he will so its doubtful.

 

[Tunescribe]

The same can be said for the even more dangerous “beware of what you know but aren’t willing to believe “ . Give it up guys. Nothing occurred that justified Butler’s benching. It gets more obvious with every passing day.

Another "obvious" tidbit of info is added each passing day? Fascinating. If you could please share what you KNOW as VERIFIABLE FACT on this matter, perhaps some folks here might be willing to believe it.

 

[mike_usagisan]

When many posters kept on pointing out that N'Keal Harry was a bust, over and over again, were they *****ing? When it turned out that even Bill acknowledged it by trading him, were those posters proven to be correct by pointing out the obvious?

What's the difference?

What do I want to do? I want to move away from a model that was successful for a long period of time based on a certain formula that no longer works. Can that be done with Bill still at the helm? Maybe. Will Bill change his model to get it done? There's no evidence that he will so its doubtful.

What's the model you want to follow?

 

[Steve102]

When many posters kept on pointing out that N'Keal Harry was a bust, over and over again, were they *****ing? When it turned out that even Bill acknowledged it by trading him, were those posters proven to be correct by pointing out the obvious?

What's the difference?

What do I want to do? I want to move away from a model that was successful for a long period of time based on a certain formula that no longer works. Can that be done with Bill still at the helm? Maybe. Will Bill change his model to get it done? There's no evidence that he will so its doubtful.

so... yeah, you just wanna b!tch until he's gone then?

You just compared the winningest coach in the history of the NFL to a first round bust. Yes I know he was his draft pick, yes I know Bill sucks when it comes to identifying WRs. It strains credibility to think you're drawing parallels to N'keal Harry and Bill Belichick. That's a stretch of biblical proportions.

I don't think Bill is gonna change his system anymore than you are gonna stop b!tching, so carry on flying those colors. You almost have to root for his failure at this point, just so Kraft will force his retirement. It's sort of like being on an airplane: You want to root for the pilot if you're on the airplane with the pilot. You don't want the pilot to screw up. In this case, if Bill succeeds, you have a good team to root for, but you're stuck with the HC that you hate. If Bill fails, then the team sucks but you get a new coach. Tough place to be a fan, if you ask me.