Inside the most dysfunctional Pats season under BB

[RobertWeathers]

Yeah. Players aren’t feeling it playing in New England. Kendrick Bourne has become my favorite player by being open about it, for which he had much of his season Malcolm Butlered.

Detroit is where it’s at. Here we get more transparency from Brad Holmes, the league’s best GM, than we have in years from Belichick.


It appears the two franchises are going in different directions. And Detroit fans, many of them, say the Matt Patricia years were the lowest of the low.

UPDATE: Former Patriot Ray Agnew is Brad Holmes’s assistant. I would love to see him running the show as GM in NE.

All that matters is winning and getting paid. When teams win and pay, the players buy in.

 

[archstanton543]

Except the Giants IMO. BB would be a NY Giant today if the Patriots let BB go right now and the Giants opened the door for him.

They just hired Dabol. There's no way BB's is going to step on his friend's toes like that.

 

[sb1]

I think Bill hung on to those guys to have leadership in the locker room, a connection to the winning culture. Didn't they lose a handful by less than one score?

Yeah they were only non competitive in two games I recall, the 49ers game and the second Bills game.

As for Stidham I think the idea he "didn't get a chance" is overstated. Bill and Josh saw him in practice and they already had an idea who he was. Look at Stidham in LV and it's hard to argue that the Patriots made a mistake not giving him a look.

 

[sb1]

They just hired Dabol. There's no way BB's is going to step on his friend's toes like that.

Agreed but my point was if there's an exception for BB not wanting to go anywhere else it would be the Giants IMO. If for whatever reason the Giants gave him the opportunity there to break Shula's record he'd be there today. He loves that organization.

 

[Steve102]

All that matters is winning and getting paid. When teams win and pay, the players buy in.

That can't be true, these younger guys can't relate to old man Belichick. We need a coach with a tik tok account.

 

[203Pat]

I think Bill hung on to those guys to have leadership in the locker room, a connection to the winning culture. Didn't they lose a handful by less than one score? I seem to remember that they were a couple ball bounces away from 9-7, which would have gotten them in the tournament. Regardless, I don't think it's in Bill's nature to rebuild that way. I think he's going to put the best team he can on the field and get the most out of them. I don't think he wanted to go with a rookie filling the shoes of the greatest ever, and went with a guy with a little pedigree and a lot of attitude that cost him next to nothing. So... if you're going to be the Krafts and jettison everyone in 2020, does that mean Bill too? Then why not keep Brady? I don't think it's nearly as black and white as many of us would like it to be.

We had those same guys in the locker room this year outside of Thuney and I think there was still locker room issues. At some point the old guard needs to move out of the way so they young guys can step up and be leaders. I think the only guy who would qualify as a leader on this team outside of McCourty and Slater is David Andrews and I think he will be 31 going into the season.

My issue (one of them) with Bill at this point is I think he didn't tear it down to the studs in 2020 because he wants to squeak out those meaningless wins to catch Shula. Honestly I think to some extent Kraft may be keeping him around because he doesn't want to be seen as the owner that let the greatest QB walk and win a ring and then the greatest coach walk and break the all time wins mark. I would rather deal with a full rebuild and win 7-9 games combined in 2020 and 2021 and start to get the pieces in place for a run. Instead we get a couple of patchwork rosters and a few seasons floating around .500. We just look like a middling team with an offense made up of free agents and not of homegrown draftees looking to make the leap and grow with Mac.

 

[RobertWeathers]

That can't be true, these younger guys can't relate to old man Belichick. We need a coach with a tik tok account.

Bill doesn't SnapTalk or TicChat....

 

[archstanton543]

That can't be true, these younger guys can't relate to old man Belichick. We need a coach with a tik tok account.

I know you're being facetious but younger players have a brand and they build that via podcasts they host and other engagement on social media that the Pats just don't allow their players to engage in (not to the level of some other players on other teams in the league).

 

[DaBruinz]

You conveniently ignored harry and the lack of 3 first rounders is not accurate . One of it was for Brandon cooks and came back as Wynn.

No. I didn't conveniently ignore anything. I went up to 2018. Which is most recent class to get extensions.

Yes, it IS accurate because they didn't have draft picks those years. I didn't realize that was so hard to understand..

 

[venecol]

That's right, the Colts haven't won anything in 16 years. The Pats won the SB 4 years ago, and 3 of the past 8, by far the best in the league. In the past 22 years since BB took over, only 3 teams have won > 1 SB (the Giants, Ravens, and Bucs) - each 2 rings, while we've won 6. So that totally explains the different attitiude and approach. KC or Philly will add to that list of 2-time winners in a couple of weeks.

I keep reading how we need to forget what happened just this year or the Covid year, because the past is the past and we need to look to the future. What is more relevant to the future, what's happened the prior 3 years or what happened during a 20 year span that ended 4 years ago?

The same posters that want to move on from recent history never miss a chance to expound on the 20-year dynasties. The fact of the matter is the DYNASTY is DEAD. The only relevant person that remains from the dynasty years is Bill Belichick.

The dynasty had a winning formula. Now, we're expecting to recreate that formula w/ only one ingredient. It's like trying to make a cake w/ just eggs or flour.

We're in a new era. Nothing that happened prior matters. This new era has started off w/ no division wins, 2 losing seasons, and a .490 winning record. That's just not good enough. During the entire 20 years, the Pats didn't win the division 3 times, missed the playoffs 3 times, had 1 losing season, and went only 2 years in a row w/o winning a playoff game. Now, we've gone 4 straight years w/o a playoff win. It is what it is.

Here's an interesting comparison. Papa Bear won the NFL Championship in 1963 at 68 yo. In the four seasons following that win he went 26-27 w/ 2 losing seasons and no playoff wins before retiring at 72.

 

[Steve102]

We had those same guys in the locker room this year outside of Thuney and I think there was still locker room issues. At some point the old guard needs to move out of the way so they young guys can step up and be leaders. I think the only guy who would qualify as a leader on this team outside of McCourty and Slater is David Andrews and I think he will be 31 going into the season.

My issue (one of them) with Bill at this point is I think he didn't tear it down to the studs in 2020 because he wants to squeak out those meaningless wins to catch Shula. Honestly I think to some extent Kraft may be keeping him around because he doesn't want to be seen as the owner that let the greatest QB walk and win a ring and then the greatest coach walk and break the all time wins mark. I would rather deal with a full rebuild and win 7-9 games combined in 2020 and 2021 and start to get the pieces in place for a run. Instead we get a couple of patchwork rosters and a few seasons floating around .500. We just look like a middling team with an offense made up of free agents and not of homegrown draftees looking to make the leap and grow with Mac.

I don't think Bill is trying to squeak out wins to catch Shula. I think he's trying to put the best, most competitive football team on the field. I do think that DMac and Slate hung on a year too long, which is unusual for Belichick. Meh. '22 is over.

I think you and I are just go in circles, so I will move on.

 

[Steve102]

I know you're being facetious but younger players have a brand and they build that via podcasts they host and other engagement on social media that the Pats just don't allow their players to engage in (not to the level of some other players on other teams in the league).

I agree with you, the Pats, or specifically Bill, want them to focus on the team and not their own social media branding. I don't think it's nearly as big of a deal as some folks either think it is or want it to be. @RobertWeathers just stated above, winning cures all the ills. No one gives a chit about that when they are winning the division.

 

[archstanton543]

I agree with you, the Pats, or specifically Bill, want them to focus on the team and not their own social media branding. I don't think it's nearly as big of a deal as some folks either think it is or want it to be. @RobertWeathers just stated above, winning cures all the ills. No one gives a chit about that when they are winning the division.

The generation gap is real. I don't give two chits about social media. Neither does BB.

But guys in their 20's right now do. Very much so.

 

[Steve102]

I keep reading how we need to forget what happened just this year or the Covid year, because the past is the past and we need to look to the future. What is more relevant to the future, what's happened the prior 3 years or what happened during a 20 year span that ended 4 years ago?

The same posters that want to move on from recent history never miss a chance to expound on the 20-year dynasties. The fact of the matter is the DYNASTY is DEAD. The only relevant person that remains from the dynasty years is Bill Belichick.

The dynasty had a winning formula. Now, we're expecting to recreate that formula w/ only one ingredient. It's like trying to make a cake w/ just eggs or flour.

We're in a new era. Nothing that happened prior matters. This new era has started off w/ no division wins, 2 losing seasons, and a .490 winning record. That's just not good enough. During the entire 20 years, the Pats didn't win the division 3 times, missed the playoffs 3 times, had 1 losing season, and went only 2 years in a row w/o winning a playoff game. Now, we've gone 4 straight years w/o a playoff win. It is what it is.

Here's an interesting comparison. Papa Bear won the NFL Championship in 1963 at 68 yo. In the four seasons following that win he went 26-27 w/ 2 losing seasons and no playoff wins before retiring at 72.

I keep asking you the same thing, bud. What do you want to do? I get the feeling you're just gonna b!tch until Bill is gone.

The generation gap is real. I don't give two chits about social media. Neither does BB.

But guys in their 20's right now do. Very much so.

I don't know that it's as big of a deal as us fans think it is. This is a job. They aren't in high school. To coin a phase, do the job. Winning goes a long way to curing it all. No one is going out for pizza or stopping at Mickey D's after road wins with Bill after games. The players need the info they need to do their jobs successfully. Does Bill and his staff get them that? They sure as hell didn't this year. That's the real problem, IMO.

I followed Winovitch while he was here, he was pretty active on social media. I just don't see it as that big of a deal.

 

[archstanton543]

I keep asking you the same thing, bud. What do you want to do? I get the feeling you're just gonna b!tch until Bill is gone.

I don't know that it's as big of a deal as us fans think it is. This is a job. They aren't in high school. To coin a phase, do the job. Winning goes a long way to curing it all. No one is going out for pizza or stopping at Mickey D's after road wins with Bill after games. The players need the info they need to do their jobs successfully. Does Bill and his staff get them that. They sure as hell didn't this year. That's the real problem, IMO.

I followed Winovitch while he was here, he was pretty active on social media. I just don't see it as big of a deal.

That's not what I'm talking about. Players not being allowed to be as active on the socials would be a reason why they wouldn't sign here. Also, their record over the last three years.

 

[venecol]

The generation gap is real. I don't give two chits about social media. Neither does BB.

But guys in their 20's right now do. Very much so.

Mayo spoke about addressing generational diversity as an issue. I'll take his word for it over fans sitting around pretending that Bill is 55 yo.

 

[Steve102]

That's not what I'm talking about. Players not being allowed to be as active on the socials would be a reason why they wouldn't sign here. Also, their record over the last three years.

Do we know for sure they aren't allowed to be active on socials? I seem to remember DMac talking about this and Bill a while back, and how Bill had backed off on that stance. I think there's a happy medium between having a social media brand and live streaming like AB from the Steelers locker room.

I think the record and the direction of the franchise is a much bigger deal, but that's assuming that all things are equal re: pay. In the end, if they pay, they'll come.

 

[Steve102]

Mayo spoke about addressing generational diversity as an issue. I'll take his word for it over fans sitting around pretending that Bill is 55 yo.

I'll take Mayo's word on it too.

 

[reflexblue]

Bill doesn't SnapTalk or TicChat....

I have to add myface. Although myface might be outdated

 

[mike_usagisan]

In the end, if they pay, they'll come.

That's it. Right there.

The idea that free agents aren't going to come to New England because we don't win enough games or whatever is bull. It's true for a few guys who "want to go to a contender" but there's not that many that can command that kind of sway.

Realistically, the Lions get free agents, the Cardinals get free agents, even the Cobra Commanders get free agents. Players go where they get paid. The rest is just noise.