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Inside the most dysfunctional Pats season under BB


Dunno, the conversation seems to be:
1) We have some talent and the cap/picks to add some talent.
2) Most people seem to be saying this is his make/break year and that he doesn't have a terrible OC as an excuse. We also have Zappe, who will have a chance to prove what he's got with a better OC/QB coach.
3) We were ****ty playcalling and poor ST away from being in the playoffs. People think BoB might be enough to take care of the playcalling and if Judge is moved to ST, maybe that's better too.
4) They're still building this coaching staff... like literally doing interviews today.

I think both the people who want to turn the page and those who want to air grievances believe your last statement is true, but about the others.
The problem I see is that we continue to ignore that 2 of the last 3 seasons had McDaniels as OC. In all 3 seasons the coaching was atrocious. The team as a whole has been making uncharacteristic mistakes throughout this period. This goes to the players motivation and the coaches failures to get more out of them. These problems have been consistent and aren't going to magically go away.

I suppose one more season of this will shine the light on the real issue but maybe not as long as the goal is for Bill to beat the much despised Shula's win record. That's just sad to me. Whatever.
 
There is more gray in the world than there is black and white. All the decisions have multiple reasons behind them, many of those reasons are not known. Some people see the glass half full, and others see it as half empty. This doesn't mean people are not arguing their side dishonestly, it just means they have a different viewpoint. I understand being frustrated and ready to move on from BB, but I don't feel that is the answer. I actually enjoy this process we have been going through the past 4 years and it doesn't take away my enjoyment of following this team because they are not SB contenders every year. It isn't solely about winning for me, so my perspective might different than others. I accept that and enjoy the other perspectives, it balances me out when I get too "homer-ish" (even for me, which is rare). Also, calling for our HC to be fired seems odd at this point considering that Kraft has told him he is the HC for the 2023 season, seems a bit like banging one's head against a wall. At least wait until October if the team sucks. Anyway, I agree that we all want the team to improve, and I am excited to see what happens this off-season.
I know Bill isn't going to be fired, that's plain as daylight. That doesn't mean we can't discuss what the real issues are with the team.

Obviously I will be looking forward to FAcy, draft, etc. with the hope, I guess, that the team shifts its philosophy and begins to bring in real talent instead of hoping to coach up a bunch of jags.
 
As I just stated, lot of folks don't want to debate, bud. They want to b!tch. Bill is not fired. Bill is not retiring. So, with those points a constant as of 1/30/23, what do you want?
I want to have an honest debate about what options the team should explore in the very near future to turn this franchise around from a middling sub .500 team to a contender. Or we can sit here, hope and pray that continuing the same formula is going to be dramatically different than its been.

I'm a realist. I don't go around life hoping for positive outcomes for the sake of hope. If you want to have a positive outcome you need to prepare. Continuing to do the same thing over and over again isn't the answer when things are clearly not improving.

But for the sake of the thread, I'll leave it at that. I'm out.
 
I know Bill isn't going to be fired, that's plain as daylight. That doesn't mean we can't discuss what the real issues are with the team.

Obviously I will be looking forward to FAcy, draft, etc. with the hope, I guess, that the team shifts its philosophy and begins to bring in real talent instead of hoping to coach up a bunch of jags.
So, your b!tch is how they, specifically Bill, builds the team? You want to go with a star studded, top heavy FA roster like the Rams? Because coaching up jags and castoffs from other teams while having elite CBs on D has worked for the most part. Having depth at RB, middling WRs with good to elite slots with elite QB play has worked. Cincinnati has borderline elite QB and elite WRs with good RBs and suck-azz line which has not got them a ring. What do you want? Break it down for me instead of just telling me Bill's way sucks.
 
The problem I see is that we continue to ignore that 2 of the last 3 seasons had McDaniels as OC. In all 3 seasons the coaching was atrocious. The team as a whole has been making uncharacteristic mistakes throughout this period. This goes to the players motivation and the coaches failures to get more out of them. These problems have been consistent and aren't going to magically go away.

I suppose one more season of this will shine the light on the real issue but maybe not as long as the goal is for Bill to beat the much despised Shula's win record. That's just sad to me. Whatever.
I think that's fair. The penalties and just poorly coached player/situations have been killers, not just last season, but the one before. I don't remember the COVID season well enough to talk about what happened then. But it feels like most of the problem has been on the offense side and Bill is handing that off to BoB. So I'm hopeful they're addressing that. If I'm critical, it's on Achord and ST. I want to see movement there, even if it's just bringing Judge over there.
 
Balanced alternate view. Respect that .
I try, thanks.
I was not commenting on agholor or Jonnu as person, the fleecing was more with respect to how their performance is commensurate for the dollars. As for agholor his fumbles and drops have lost us more games than his play has won. So in that regard it's a miss.
Agholor was a miss, yes. o was every other FA WR that year, stunningly.
Wynn was already performing sub optimally and had health issues and attitude issues prior to 5th year . Signing his tag was something that was universally condemned in 4th year not something that I came up now.
You're forgetting that they had to exercise the option in MAY of 2021, before the fourth year even began (and he was very goodin 2021 and there were no attitude issues.

You have to go to page 98 to get there. There were a couple here who were against it, but the overwhelming majority (and pretty much every Pats reporter) agreed with picking up the option.
88% yes on the poll here.
Spending 25 million on TE without having game plan is criminal . We just spent so much because we couldn't draft , nor develop players . And in the end the net results are there to see. 45 + million across Wynn, agholor, Henry and Smith . It's retrospective but reflects the poor assessments and in teams with 2 or more losing seasons gets the GM fired. I am not saying we need to do the same .but we need to acknowledge we have a problem . No point buttering it up just because bill has won six rings while having the GOAT QB. I understand rebuilds take a while but this year's experiment essentially put a reset clock on rebuild and again we are starting at year 1 . Bengals did a reset in 2 years with Burrow.
I don't disagree. It's more about development than draft regarding WR and TE here, in my opinion. Neither Smith nor Henry are "bad" NFL TE's - they were both rated highly BEFORE they got here, in the top 7(iirc) in the league. Criminally used, I agree.
Regarding Michel, bust might be a strong word. I retract that . But you don't draft bell cows at 31 when you can get similar production in lower rounds Harris, rham, Pacheco, pollard etc. That was a water of draft pick .
Go look at the grading for RBs coming out - and the Pats needed an RB. Here: 2018 NFL Draft Prospects: Running Backs
What Michel had that few others had was the ability to pass protect - which was kind of important to BB. Sure, in hindsight, Chubb was the guy (Barclay was long gone, obviously), but Michel was huge his rookie year and did well in years 2 and 3. Sure, he would have a short career, possibly, with that knee, but when does that matter to BB? He lets RBs walk after the rookie year.
The very fact that we have not resigned any of our first rounders since McCourty tells me we have been really missing the mark and bardy and scar making up for the whiffs. Now that they are not there it's plain vanilla to see.
I think they've blown several first round picks, I agree.
Andy Reid is within striking distance of Bills postseason records. Chiefs have gone to 5 consecutive AFC championships . We haven't won a postseason in 4 years . That's all to say .
Andy Reid is a great coach, other than "in-game." He may retire with the most wins, but he won't have 6 rings. If he gets a couple more, he'll be in the all-time top 5 discussion, without doubt, and he'll belong there.
I have no problem with that.
 
I want to have an honest debate about what options the team should explore in the very near future to turn this franchise around from a middling sub .500 team to a contender. Or we can sit here, hope and pray that continuing the same formula is going to be dramatically different than its been.

I'm a realist. I don't go around life hoping for positive outcomes for the sake of hope. If you want to have a positive outcome you need to prepare. Continuing to do the same thing over and over again isn't the answer when things are clearly not improving.

But for the sake of the thread, I'll leave it at that. I'm out.
Well, really, we're a middling team right now, which sometimes leads to playoffs and sometimes doesn't. But we have the defense and running game, so we're going as far as our QB takes us. A lot of people on here have given up on Mac, and that's fine. Though the Eagles and Miami have shown what working with their QB through the growing pains rather than giving up can do (but apparently that's just sitting here and hoping that something changes). But I think Mac and Zappe with BoB is the only way we're going to see what we have at QB and bringing in Jimmy or drafting yet another QB is a mistake. So the debate looks like dump the QBs now or see what we've got.
 
A lot of people on here have given up on Mac, and that's fine. Though the Eagles and Miami have shown what working with their QB through the growing pains rather than giving up can do.
Not to mention Josh Allen.

But I think Mac and Zappe with BoB is the only way we're going to see what we have at QB and bringing in Jimmy or drafting yet another QB is a mistake. So the debate looks like dump them now or see what we've got.
We all know "dump them now" is just someone being snarky, it ain't gonna happen.
 
Not to mention Josh Allen.


We all know "dump them now" is just someone being snarky, it ain't gonna happen.
There's a vocal group on here that wants to bring in another QB, but I think we need to know what we have in the QBs we've got. And anyone who feels confident knowing what we have after the car crash of OC last season probably has an agenda.
 
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I did not elaborate . I was talking more about postseason wins. 21 to 31 postseason wins . And another 4 years of mahomes will bring it pretty close and Reid has done it with 2 separate teams which is remarkable .

With regards to rings breaking Bills 6 + 2 rings is going to be a challenge.
31 is a lot more than 21.
 
There's a vocal group on here that wants to bring in another QB, but I think we need to know what we have in the QBs we've got, and anyone who feels confident knowing what we have after the car crash of OC last season probably has an agenda.
There's a bunch of nostalgic people here, but IMO that's all it is, nostalgia. I can't see either side deciding that's the way to go, for many different reasons.
 
31 is a lot more than 21.
Reid is 64 . Bill is 70. Another 6 years and he could top Bill with the level of consistency that chiefs have...Bill I guess has at most 2 years .
 
At the end of the day it is pretty simple, the team underachieved given their talent compared to the prior year. Better to fail miserably than if they won another game and got into the playoffs with no real chance at the championship. There is an urgency to improve that has not been seen around here for a long time. The most glaring issue has already been addressed. As a result if Mac has another good off season he will be better than his rookie year. Say what you want about him as a player, he persevered through the worst possible circumstances without quitting and gained the respect of the rest of the team. Still to do: add talent through the draft, FA and trades. Purge the players that need to go and finish filling out the coaching staff. We are on to 2023.
 
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Reid is 64 . Bill is 70. Another 6 years and he could top Bill with the level of consistency that chiefs have...Bill I guess has at most 2 years .
We have a different definition of “closing in on his records”
 
Look, I am not saying Bill didn't eff it up. I read the article and I listened to the podcast. Bill eff'd up royally. What does being mad about it get me? Zip. Do I sit here and b!tch that the Krafts don't fire him? I don't see they will ever fire him. Look, this team returned my emotional and financial commitment to them way better than I could have imagined, so yeah, there's a lot of goodwill at my house. I get disappointed when they lose, but I don't get pissed off at them. The seems to me is there's a lot of you guys that like being mad at them. You all roll around in it like a kid playing in a pile of leaves in the fall. Some of you are mad about the Bill/Brady divorce and haven't moved on. It's just not how I choose to spend my time being a fan. I want to see what they are going to do to fix it. I am interested to see if Bill even can fix it. If you look at the history of the league and the "dynasties", no one has been able to rebuild it once it ended. I doubt very much he can, but I do have faith in the Krafts to right the ship and steer Bill and the coaches who will come after Bill. So, yeah, I want to move on. It happened, and it's on Bill's permanent record, as is the fact that he can't win without Brady, which a lot of people here love to talk about. So you'll excuse me if I look at y'all who want Bill gone and like being mad at them and think that you guys are crazy for not appreciating what we had for an unprecedented 20 year run. It was glorious, historic, and it was right here in Foxboro. That doesn't change what a chitshow 2022 was, to be sure, but it changes how I react to them.
I can respect that. Frankly yes, I still do blame Bill for the Brady divorce and blame him for not having a succession plan there as well. Since I had a kid two years ago I found I am a little less emotionally invested in the team and definitely the league as a whole. That being said I feel like we have basically just been treading water post-Brady. A middling team that is half in/half out as far as rebuilding and that will land us just good enough to be in playoff contention and just bad enough to not win in the playoffs or get a true blue chip talent in the draft. It is frustrating to watch the team have no direction and fade further into irrelevance.
 
I can respect that. Frankly yes, I still do blame Bill for the Brady divorce and blame him for not having a succession plan there as well. Since I had a kid two years ago I found I am a little less emotionally invested in the team and definitely the league as a whole. That being said I feel like we have basically just been treading water post-Brady. A middling team that is half in/half out as far as rebuilding and that will land us just good enough to be in playoff contention and just bad enough to not win in the playoffs or get a true blue chip talent in the draft. It is frustrating to watch the team have no direction and fade further into irrelevance.
They had a succession plan: Jimmy G. Bill played the odds that Brady would get to his late thirties and fall of the Max Kellerman cliff, like every other player in the history of the NFL. When that didn't happen, all bets were off. Just a hunch, but I think Bill thought, wrongly, that Brady's relationship with the Krafts and RKK specifically would keep Brady here year to year and Bill could continue to play hardball with him. Again, wrong.

I don't think they were treading water. I think 2020 was a reset with Cam. They came back in 2021 with a rookie, made the playoffs. Turned the corner, starting to build around Mac, bought in, in Bill's mind, two excellent football minds in JJ and FM, and they should be able to keep things going. We know how that turned out. So now they've got Billy O and, hopefully, righting the ship. We will see.
 
It took 31 years for me to see the Pats win one Super Bowl. That was because of BB. I got to see them win 5 more. Because of BB. He could go 0-1000 for the rest of my life for all I care. He recognized the problem, and is trying to fix it. Put the pitchfork s down for crying out loud.
I guess Kraft feels the same way you do. Reminds me of a song, "Never can say goodbye, no no no i never can say goodbye" Gloria gayner 75 hit....
 
It took 31 years for me to see the Pats win one Super Bowl. That was because of BB. I got to see them win 5 more. Because of BB. He could go 0-1000 for the rest of my life for all I care. He recognized the problem, and is trying to fix it. Put the pitchfork s down for crying out loud.
I think the vast majority of the long term fans on here are thankful to Brady, Belichick, Kraft, and a long list of other players and staff for the dynasty, but it is a Pats forum to discuss what is going on with the team, and sitting here raising our glasses to the dynasty without having an opinion on what is going on currently doesn't really seem what the forum is for.
 


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