Inside the most dysfunctional Pats season under BB

[sb1]

That’s why I wouldn’t be surprised if Bill clean houses on offense and get rid of some players he feels are problematic. Mac being one of them.

I still can’t put my head around why Bill, with all the dysfunction that was going around, never really endorse Mac as the starter despite all the occasion he had this year.

We hear all the article about Mac being exited about BOB that I think it would so Bill to trade him.

Mac has very little trade value right now after the season he just had. This would be a sell-low on him and there's no point doing that. They're not going to get rid of him for the sake of getting rid of him. If he has a good season in 2023 with BOB as his OC then he will have some trade value if the Pats want to go in a different direction at QB.

 

[Steve102]

Mac has very little trade value right now after the season he just had. This would be a sell-low on him and there's no point doing that. They're not going to get rid of him for the sake of getting rid of him. If he has a good season in 2023 with BOB as his OC then he will have some trade value if the Pats want to go in a different direction at QB.

... and if he has a good 2023, why move on?

 

[203Pat]

 

[50-yard-line]

Getting fleeced again by Agholor

I get that you're frustrated, but don't be an ass about it to people who don't deserve your scorn. Agholor was paid $11m/year - in line for a #2 WR at that time (and a low one now). He didn't "fleece" anyone by taking a contract. That's a ridiculous take. Was he missing practices? Was he loafing on the field? Never heard a single report on that - have you?

1. Allowing Jonnu to continue to con and commit day light robbery

Same thing as above. Smith has been targeted less than 3 times a game, has a 65%+ catch rate and averages just under 10yeard a catch. He fights for every yard. He hasn't been a problem in the locker room or on the field. Your statement here is again ridiculous, and demeaning to someone who doesn't deserve it. The biggest difference between the Patriots' way with WRs/TEs/RBs and the rest of the league is that guys like Giseiki, Schultz, Knox and all the others putting up big numbers get the ball thrown their way 3x that number.

1. Signing Wynn for 5th year option

You were asked what you would have done and didn't answer. Wynn was the expected LT. 11 million is nothing for a starting LT, and Wynn had played the position pretty well - yeah, his health was an issue, but he played 16 games in 2021 and was ranked 20th among all tackles (right and left). His blocking grades are high. His only concerns before this year's crap show were health, and that was skewed from the overview because he lost the entire rookie season to an Achilles, which is just back luck.
So, before the 2022 season starts, you're NOT going to tag your starting LT for less than half of what the top guys are making? Is that your point here?

1. Isaiah Wynn- BUST

Wrong.

1. Sony michel - he is a JAG now looking at the way he is been bouncing off. With that OLine any RB would have had the success Michel had.

Who cares what he is now? He's long off his rookie deal. On the Pats, he was just under 1000 yards two years in a row and averaged 5.7 (to Harris' 5.0) before he got hurt in his 3rd year. His performance in the playoffs his rookie year alone makes this pick not a bust. No one complained about the pick when it was made - no one. He's also pretty much the only rookie to that point to get the bellcow work on the Pats, because he was among the best blocking/pass protecting RBs coming out of college.

1. Asiasi

Kind of funny to hear all the good things that were being said about this kid a few weeks back. Were he to become a competent NFL TE, I wouldn't be surprised, but he was drafted to the place where skill players go to die: New England.
Henry and Smith are both good TEs - both were rated in the top 10 before they came to the Pats.
Agholor is better than he's shown here (I was never a fan, though, and don't trust his hands - never did).
Just look at Bourne to see how messed up they are in the way they handle their skill players. The most dynamic WR on a middling offense barely sees the field. Brilliant, just brilliant.

 

[203Pat]

I get that you're frustrated, but don't be an ass about it to people who don't deserve your scorn. Agholor was paid $11m/year - in line for a #2 WR at that time (and a low one now). He didn't "fleece" anyone by taking a contract. That's a ridiculous take. Was he missing practices? Was he loafing on the field? Never heard a single report on that - have you?


Same thing as above. Smith has been targeted less than 3 times a game, has a 65%+ catch rate and averages just under 10yeard a catch. He fights for every yard. He hasn't been a problem in the locker room or on the field. Your statement here is again ridiculous, and demeaning to someone who doesn't deserve it. The biggest difference between the Patriots' way with WRs/TEs/RBs and the rest of the league is that guys like Giseiki, Schultz, Knox and all the others putting up big numbers get the ball thrown their way 3x that number.

You were asked what you would have done and didn't answer. Wynn was the expected LT. 11 million is nothing for a starting LT, and Wynn had played the position pretty well - yeah, his health was an issue, but he played 16 games in 2021 and was ranked 20th among all tackles (right and left). His blocking grades are high. His only concerns before this year's crap show were health, and that was skewed from the overview because he lost the entire rookie season to an Achilles, which is just back luck.
So, before the 2022 season starts, you're NOT going to tag your starting LT for less than half of what the top guys are making? Is that your point here?

Wrong.

Who cares what he is now? He's long off his rookie deal. On the Pats, he was just under 1000 yards two years in a row and averaged 5.7 (to Harris' 5.0) before he got hurt in his 3rd year. His performance in the playoffs his rookie year alone makes this pick not a bust. No one complained about the pick when it was made - no one. He's also pretty much the only rookie to that point to get the bellcow work on the Pats, because he was among the best blocking/pass protecting RBs coming out of college.

Kind of funny to hear all the good things that were being said about this kid a few weeks back. Were he to become a competent NFL TE, I wouldn't be surprised, but he was drafted to the place where skill players go to die: New England.
Henry and Smith are both good TEs - both were rated in the top 10 before they came to the Pats.
Agholor is better than he's shown here (I was never a fan, though, and don't trust his hands - never did).
Just look at Bourne to see how messed up they are in the way they handle their skill players. The most dynamic WR on a middling offense barely sees the field. Brilliant, just brilliant.

I'm pretty sure I disagree with everything you just said.

 

[sb1]

The Sony pick in a vacuum without the benefit of hindsight was fine. But his injury history should have given the Patriots some pause. Including a grade 3(!) torn ACL.

 

[Rob0729]

That’s why I wouldn’t be surprised if Bill clean houses on offense and get rid of some players he feels are problematic. Mac being one of them.

I still can’t put my head around why Bill, with all the dysfunction that was going around, never really endorse Mac as the starter despite all the occasion he had this year.

We hear all the article about Mac being exited about BOB that I think it would so Bill to trade him.

I seriously doubt any of this. Belichick would lose the locker room if he put the blame for last year on Mac Jones and the players. It is clear from this article that everyone knows that Belichick screwed up with the coaching staff. He cleans house especially with Mac Jones, next year will be Belichick's last year as head coach of the New England Patriots.

Belichick needs to repair the burnt bridges with the players especially with Mac Jones if he wants to keep the locker room. There could be a player or two let go like maybe Trent Brown, but I seriously doubt it will be Mac Jones.

 

[sb1]

I seriously doubt any of this. Belichick would lose the locker room if he put the blame for last year on Mac Jones and the players. It is clear from this article that everyone knows that Belichick screwed up with the coaching staff. He cleans house especially with Mac Jones, next year will be Belichick's last year as head coach of the New England Patriots.

Belichick needs to repair the burnt bridges with the players especially with Mac Jones if he wants to keep the locker room. There could be a player or two let go like maybe Trent Brown, but I seriously doubt it will be Mac Jones.

The players support Mac. Good chance that BB sending him packing would in fact lose the locker room and yes Bill's job wouldn't be far behind.

 

[Toofy]

I get that you're frustrated, but don't be an ass about it to people who don't deserve your scorn. Agholor was paid $11m/year - in line for a #2 WR at that time (and a low one now). He didn't "fleece" anyone by taking a contract. That's a ridiculous take. Was he missing practices? Was he loafing on the field? Never heard a single report on that - have you?


Same thing as above. Smith has been targeted less than 3 times a game, has a 65%+ catch rate and averages just under 10yeard a catch. He fights for every yard. He hasn't been a problem in the locker room or on the field. Your statement here is again ridiculous, and demeaning to someone who doesn't deserve it. The biggest difference between the Patriots' way with WRs/TEs/RBs and the rest of the league is that guys like Giseiki, Schultz, Knox and all the others putting up big numbers get the ball thrown their way 3x that number.

You were asked what you would have done and didn't answer. Wynn was the expected LT. 11 million is nothing for a starting LT, and Wynn had played the position pretty well - yeah, his health was an issue, but he played 16 games in 2021 and was ranked 20th among all tackles (right and left). His blocking grades are high. His only concerns before this year's crap show were health, and that was skewed from the overview because he lost the entire rookie season to an Achilles, which is just back luck.
So, before the 2022 season starts, you're NOT going to tag your starting LT for less than half of what the top guys are making? Is that your point here?

Wrong.

Who cares what he is now? He's long off his rookie deal. On the Pats, he was just under 1000 yards two years in a row and averaged 5.7 (to Harris' 5.0) before he got hurt in his 3rd year. His performance in the playoffs his rookie year alone makes this pick not a bust. No one complained about the pick when it was made - no one. He's also pretty much the only rookie to that point to get the bellcow work on the Pats, because he was among the best blocking/pass protecting RBs coming out of college.

Kind of funny to hear all the good things that were being said about this kid a few weeks back. Were he to become a competent NFL TE, I wouldn't be surprised, but he was drafted to the place where skill players go to die: New England.
Henry and Smith are both good TEs - both were rated in the top 10 before they came to the Pats.
Agholor is better than he's shown here (I was never a fan, though, and don't trust his hands - never did).
Just look at Bourne to see how messed up they are in the way they handle their skill players. The most dynamic WR on a middling offense barely sees the field. Brilliant, just brilliant.

Balanced alternate view. Respect that .

I was not commenting on agholor or Jonnu as person, the fleecing was more with respect to how their performance is commensurate for the dollars. As for agholor his fumbles and drops have lost us more games than his play has won. So in that regard it's a miss.

Wynn was already performing sub optimally and had health issues and attitude issues prior to 5th year . Signing his tag was something that was universally condemned in 4th year not something that I came up now.

Spending 25 million on TE without having game plan is criminal . We just spent so much because we couldn't draft , nor develop players . And in the end the net results are there to see. 45 + million across Wynn, agholor, Henry and Smith . It's retrospective but reflects the poor assessments and in teams with 2 or more losing seasons gets the GM fired. I am not saying we need to do the same .but we need to acknowledge we have a problem . No point buttering it up just because bill has won six rings while having the GOAT QB. I understand rebuilds take a while but this year's experiment essentially put a reset clock on rebuild and again we are starting at year 1 . Bengals did a reset in 2 years with Burrow.

Again Burrow and Mac are not same . But if we say we have an advantage in coaching , that did not come up . We played or stank at jets level this year .

Regarding Michel, bust might be a strong word. I retract that . But you don't draft bell cows at 31 when you can get similar production in lower rounds Harris, rham, Pacheco, pollard etc. That was a water of draft pick .

The very fact that we have not resigned any of our first rounders since McCourty tells me we have been really missing the mark and bardy and scar making up for the whiffs. Now that they are not there it's plain vanilla to see.

I am a big bill supporter but I just think offense ( playcalling and drafts ) needs to be handled independently of Bill . The game has changed and unfortunately bill has not kept up with how teams are built on offense . Majority of 2021 investment on free agents is biting in dust . Leave apart Judon and Bourne , rest of the contracts are nothing home to write about . Mills is okay but has been frequently injured and godchaux and Henry are average. Henry this year was wasted completely.

Now you can say it's because of Patricia , but the blame for that goes to Bill .

Again I am no Bill hater and would love to see How bill adjusts and proves naysayers like me wrong . But we need to acknowledge that things were wrong so that we make suitable adjustments . Can't be middle of pack for next 3-4 years.

Need to have a goal for afc championship in next 2-3 years . Anything less than that severely diminishes bills stature as we inch towards Shula's record.

Andy Reid is within striking distance of Bills postseason records. Chiefs have gone to 5 consecutive AFC championships . We haven't won a postseason in 4 years . That's all to say .

 

[Triumph]

I told you people that Belichick had his thumb on the offense all season. Patricia was following orders from his boss. The Bourne thing was BBs doing as well.

Report: Bill Belichick 'moonlighted' as Patriots offensive play-caller

Matt Patricia might not have been the only one calling the offensive plays for the Patriots.

patriotswire.usatoday.com

 

[Steve102]

This is being discussed in another thread.

 

[Triumph]

This is being discussed in another thread.

Nobody is responding over there and its sort of a big issue because the majority of people here lay 100% of the blame on Patricia.

 

[SVN]

Its breer with bb hater kleiman on top. Breer has zero sources , he just keeps guessing.

 

[Toofy]

Its breer with bb hater kleiman on top. Breer has zero sources , he just keeps guessing.

The knives are out in multiple hands... Honestly I am not sure if I can trust this report... Bill just in good faith handled it to Patricia but it bombed to a level that he did not even imagine . If this had really happened , not sure how Bill hasn't lost the locker room because then Mac reaching out to other coaches is justified .

 

[Ring 6]

Balanced alternate view. Respect that .

I was not commenting on agholor or Jonnu as person, the fleecing was more with respect to how their performance is commensurate for the dollars. As for agholor his fumbles and drops have lost us more games than his play has won. So in that regard it's a miss.

Wynn was already performing sub optimally and had health issues and attitude issues prior to 5th year . Signing his tag was something that was universally condemned in 4th year not something that I came up now.

Spending 25 million on TE without having game plan is criminal . We just spent so much because we couldn't draft , nor develop players . And in the end the net results are there to see. 45 + million across Wynn, agholor, Henry and Smith . It's retrospective but reflects the poor assessments and in teams with 2 or more losing seasons gets the GM fired. I am not saying we need to do the same .but we need to acknowledge we have a problem . No point buttering it up just because bill has won six rings while having the GOAT QB. I understand rebuilds take a while but this year's experiment essentially put a reset clock on rebuild and again we are starting at year 1 . Bengals did a reset in 2 years with Burrow.

Again Burrow and Mac are not same . But if we say we have an advantage in coaching , that did not come up . We played or stank at jets level this year .

Regarding Michel, bust might be a strong word. I retract that . But you don't draft bell cows at 31 when you can get similar production in lower rounds Harris, rham, Pacheco, pollard etc. That was a water of draft pick .

The very fact that we have not resigned any of our first rounders since McCourty tells me we have been really missing the mark and bardy and scar making up for the whiffs. Now that they are not there it's plain vanilla to see.

I am a big bill supporter but I just think offense ( playcalling and drafts ) needs to be handled independently of Bill . The game has changed and unfortunately bill has not kept up with how teams are built on offense . Majority of 2021 investment on free agents is biting in dust . Leave apart Judon and Bourne , rest of the contracts are nothing home to write about . Mills is okay but has been frequently injured and godchaux and Henry are average. Henry this year was wasted completely.

Now you can say it's because of Patricia , but the blame for that goes to Bill .

Again I am no Bill hater and would love to see How bill adjusts and proves naysayers like me wrong . But we need to acknowledge that things were wrong so that we make suitable adjustments . Can't be middle of pack for next 3-4 years.

Need to have a goal for afc championship in next 2-3 years . Anything less than that severely diminishes bills stature as we inch towards Shula's record.

Andy Reid is within striking distance of Bills postseason records. Chiefs have gone to 5 consecutive AFC championships . We haven't won a postseason in 4 years . That's all to say .

1 ring is not striking distance of 6.

 

[Steve102]

I'll go respond to you over there.

 

[crawhammer]

I told you people that Belichick had his thumb on the offense all season. Patricia was following orders from his boss. The Bourne thing was BBs doing as well.

Report: Bill Belichick 'moonlighted' as Patriots offensive play-caller

Matt Patricia might not have been the only one calling the offensive plays for the Patriots.

patriotswire.usatoday.com

Of course the Bourne thing was Belichick. Why would anyone think otherwise?

 

[Toofy]

1 ring is not striking distance of 6.

I did not elaborate . I was talking more about postseason wins. 21 to 31 postseason wins . And another 4 years of mahomes will bring it pretty close and Reid has done it with 2 separate teams which is remarkable .

With regards to rings breaking Bills 6 + 2 rings is going to be a challenge.

 

[VectorPrime]

Bill ordered the hit and Matt pulled the trigger.

 

[VectorPrime]

Its breer with bb hater kleiman on top. Breer has zero sources , he just keeps guessing.

Really? Really? We're still going to do this?