Inside the most dysfunctional Pats season under BB

[RobertWeathers]

There were reports where that Caley refused the job without the title and BB said he was concerned that Caley would be a one and done situation.

If true this pisses me off on a couple of levels.

When it comes to titles and roles, I find BB to be a bit of a hypocrite.

We have heard 1000 times, "We aren't big on titles here" but the reality is they are very big on titles.

In some respects I agree with Bill's thinking. If you are excellent at your job and visible, you'll get the job you want and respect you deserve. If you have a fancy title but suck at your job then the title is worthless.

Caley is 40 years old and has spent several years on the staff. If there was interest in giving him the OC job, just give him the title. To not put him in that role just because he wanted the OC title or afraid he's leave after a year is short-sighted and stupid.

....and so what if he leaves after a year? The future is now. If he is the best person for the job today and his job is to be OC then put him in that role now. If the offense kicked ass and he didn't have the title, based on the visibility of the position he's still be a pot'l HC candidate.

Staff turnover is a part of life. Maybe if BB did a better job of grooming Josh's replacement he wouldn't have needed to resort to the Fat Matt/Judge disaster.

If I was Caley I'd tell BB to **** off. At the end of the day BB did not think he was OC material. Based on last year's Fat Matt/Judge debacle, unless they've already done it, it's pretty obvious BB has no idea what "OC material" means.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

If true this pisses me off on a couple of levels.

When it comes to titles and roles, I find BB to be a bit of a hypocrite.

We have heard 1000 times, "We aren't big on titles here" but the reality is they are very big on titles.

In some respects I agree with Bill's thinking. If you are excellent at your job and good at promoting yourself, you'll get the job you want and respect you deserve. If you have a fancy title but suck at your job then the title is worthless.

Caley is 40 years old and has spent 8 years on the staff. If there was interest in giving him the OC job, just give him the title. To not put him in that role just because he wanted the OC title or afraid he's leave after a year is short-sighted and stupid.

....and so what if he leaves after a year? The future is now. If he is the best person for the job today and his job is to be OC then put him in that role now. If the offense kicked ass and he didn't have the title, based on the visibility of the position he's still be a pot'l HC candidate.

Staff turnover is a part of life. Maybe if BB did a better job of grooming Josh's replacement he wouldn't have needed to resort to the Fat Matt/Judge disaster.

If I was Caley I'd tell BB to **** off. At the end of the day BB did not think he was OC material. Based on last year's Fat Matt/Judge debacle, unless they've already done it, it's pretty obvious BB has no idea what "OC material" means.

Heard over headset: "That's why you'll never be an OC in this league"

 

[jdlboot14]

What's somewhat telling is this last season Pats had 1 win against playoff teams all year (vs. MIA) and 6 losses.
So 7 of 8 wins all year were non-playoff teams.

 

[archstanton543]

What's somewhat telling is this last season Pats had 1 win against playoff teams all year (vs. MIA) and 6 losses.
So 7 of 8 wins all year were non-playoff teams.

You have to play the teams on your schedule.

 

[captain stone]

I don't see how you can use such a broad brush stroke when fault rested foremost with the orchestrators, Patricia/Judge. Everything stemmed from their lack of ability to install a coherent scheme or game-plan contingencies for what defenses might present. What are the players supposed to do, quit? Stage a mutiny? Executing what they were told/put in place to do was so inherently flawed, making ANYTHING work consistently was an uphill struggle. As player-leader Mac certainly did not handle himself well at times, but being a perfect Boy Scout wouldn't have helped him translate Patricia's disjointed mess into touchdowns.

Because Corky does things poorly that have Nothing to do with coaching.

 

[Tunescribe]

Because Corky does things poorly that have Nothing to do with coaching.

How can you say definitively that something he might do poorly has nothing to do with coaching?

 

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

If true this pisses me off on a couple of levels.

When it comes to titles and roles, I find BB to be a bit of a hypocrite.

We have heard 1000 times, "We aren't big on titles here" but the reality is they are very big on titles.

In some respects I agree with Bill's thinking. If you are excellent at your job and visible, you'll get the job you want and respect you deserve. If you have a fancy title but suck at your job then the title is worthless.

Caley is 40 years old and has spent several years on the staff. If there was interest in giving him the OC job, just give him the title. To not put him in that role just because he wanted the OC title or afraid he's leave after a year is short-sighted and stupid.

....and so what if he leaves after a year? The future is now. If he is the best person for the job today and his job is to be OC then put him in that role now. If the offense kicked ass and he didn't have the title, based on the visibility of the position he's still be a pot'l HC candidate.

Staff turnover is a part of life. Maybe if BB did a better job of grooming Josh's replacement he wouldn't have needed to resort to the Fat Matt/Judge disaster.

If I was Caley I'd tell BB to **** off. At the end of the day BB did not think he was OC material. Based on last year's Fat Matt/Judge debacle, unless they've already done it, it's pretty obvious BB has no idea what "OC material" means.

BB is not big on titles except for himself and his 20+ million/year salary

 

[Toofy]

Have patriots / Bill Belichick lost his fast- ball on offense ?

Just observing the offense over 4 years , looks like we seem to have mismanaged drafts , coaches , playcalling and free agency.

Brady , Gronk, Edelman and white were the core which acted as a glue to keep offense intact with Scar doing his part to keep offensive line one of the league best and Josh making sure we were competitive and Brady doing the rest .

But now over last 4 year's if we obserce there are so many whiffs with the only constant being Belichick which makes me question whether Bill as a HC can really handle how offense needs to be run . I am not talking about playcalling , but the operational aspects of what is needed to get the offense running.

FA whiffs

1. Letting thuney leave for nothing
2. Getting paltry return for Shaq Mason
3. Getting peanuts for Garopollo
4. Getting robbed in Sanu trade
5. Getting fleeced again by Agholor
6. Allowing Jonnu to continue to con and commit day light robbery
7. Signing Wynn for 5th year option
8. Letting Brady leave with no compensation.

Operational decisions

1. Wasting a season with Cam despite the fact that he was washed and not really going with stidham which would have achieved same objective with Cam.
2. Killing team with Patricia and Judge hire
3. Not having backup for Scar
4. Not providing clarity on Caley
5. Not firing Achord
6. Not open to new ideas from people outside of bills circle of trust .
7. Killing QB Confidence by benching Mac in game midway.
8. No plan to replace Josh when we knew he would be leaving and not even interviewing others.

Drafts on offense

1. Isaiah Wynn- BUST
2. Sony michel - he is a JAG now looking at the way he is been bouncing off. With that OLine any RB would have had the success Michel had.
3. Nkeal Harry - the biggest culprit in a loaded WR class
4. Asiasi
5. Dalton Keene
6. Thornton - looks like a whiff compared to other receivers drafted this year .
7. Strange - has potential but is playing at levels of 3rd rounder.

Now chiefs have 7 pro bowlers despite always being in championship game or divisional game in last 4 years and they seem to be hitting their drafts really well . They even got a decent haul for Tyreek . Whilst patriots are yet to develop any game changing talent on offense .


Looking at all these factors in Unison, makes me question whether does Bill as of today at 70+ years really have a grip on how offense needs to be run because all around i just see failure. So in a offense led league we need to hope that BoB hasn't lost the fastball else we would need to start our rebuild afresh without Bill because the detriment to offense could be Bill himself .

 

[State]

It was worse than we ever thought.

Training camp and the preseason games were bad. We knew something was up.

It was just Kendrick Bourne was honest enough to be open about the offense’s mess. For that he had to be punished.

In a more perfect world, he’d become a team captain.

 

[Toofy]

Training camp and the preseason games were bad. We knew something was up.

It was just Kendrick Bourne was honest enough to be open about the offense’s mess. For that he had to be punished.

In a more perfect world, he’d become a team captain.

Agree... He should be the leader of the offense and Meyers leaving will bring out the beat in him and thrust him to spotlight. Hopefully Bob trusts him more than Bill.

I love bill the defensive coach, but the GM and offensive side of HC are nothing home to write about and would have got the HC fired if not for 6 rings .

The more I think about it I feel Bill has screwed the offense more through draft, Free agency, benchings , Coach hires, coach no hires etc. BoB should get a free reign on offensive side because I honestly finds bills version of offense offensive ( pun intended)

 

[State]

Bill Belichick going to confession to his Croatian priest.

“Bless me, Father, for I have sinned. I failed to fully use the talents I’ve been given by hiring two buddies to my workplace who weren’t up for the job. Everyone else warned me about it, but I refused to listen. I was stubborn. Prideful even.”

“Well, my son, now that you realize this perhaps you can act with more humility. Don’t be afraid to be around people who will challenge you.

“As penance say three Hail Marys, two Our Fathers, and try to draft that kid from Army.”

 

[RIpats88]

Agree... He should be the leader of the offense and Meyers leaving will bring out the beat in him and thrust him to spotlight. Hopefully Bob trusts him more than Bill.

I love bill the defensive coach, but the GM and offensive side of HC are nothing home to write about and would have got the HC fired if not for 6 rings .

The more I think about it I feel Bill has screwed the offense more through draft, Free agency, benchings , Coach hires, coach no hires etc. BoB should get a free reign on offensive side because I honestly finds bills version of offense offensive ( pun intended)

I hope O'Brien has input on draft, trades etc. For the offensive side of the ball.

 

[Calhoun44]

Have patriots / Bill Belichick lost his fast- ball on offense ?

Just observing the offense over 4 years , looks like we seem to have mismanaged drafts , coaches , playcalling and free agency.

Brady , Gronk, Edelman and white were the core which acted as a glue to keep offense intact with Scar doing his part to keep offensive line one of the league best and Josh making sure we were competitive and Brady doing the rest .

But now over last 4 year's if we obserce there are so many whiffs with the only constant being Belichick which makes me question whether Bill as a HC can really handle how offense needs to be run . I am not talking about playcalling , but the operational aspects of what is needed to get the offense running.

FA whiffs

1. Letting thuney leave for nothing
2. Getting paltry return for Shaq Mason
3. Getting peanuts for Garopollo
4. Getting robbed in Sanu trade
5. Getting fleeced again by Agholor
6. Allowing Jonnu to continue to con and commit day light robbery
7. Signing Wynn for 5th year option
8. Letting Brady leave with no compensation.

Operational decisions

1. Wasting a season with Cam despite the fact that he was washed and not really going with stidham which would have achieved same objective with Cam.
2. Killing team with Patricia and Judge hire
3. Not having backup for Scar
4. Not providing clarity on Caley
5. Not firing Achord
6. Not open to new ideas from people outside of bills circle of trust .
7. Killing QB Confidence by benching Mac in game midway.
8. No plan to replace Josh when we knew he would be leaving and not even interviewing others.

Drafts on offense

1. Isaiah Wynn- BUST
2. Sony michel - he is a JAG now looking at the way he is been bouncing off. With that OLine any RB would have had the success Michel had.
3. Nkeal Harry - the biggest culprit in a loaded WR class
4. Asiasi
5. Dalton Keene
6. Thornton - looks like a whiff compared to other receivers drafted this year .
7. Strange - has potential but is playing at levels of 3rd rounder.

Now chiefs have 7 pro bowlers despite always being in championship game or divisional game in last 4 years and they seem to be hitting their drafts really well . They even got a decent haul for Tyreek . Whilst patriots are yet to develop any game changing talent on offense .


Looking at all these factors in Unison, makes me question whether does Bill as of today at 70+ years really have a grip on how offense needs to be run because all around i just see failure. So in a offense led league we need to hope that BoB hasn't lost the fastball else we would need to start our rebuild afresh without Bill because the detriment to offense could be Bill himself .

Okay, first off i don't agree with all your assessments that they were bad decisions. Secondly, do this with every team and let me know how many teams have made mistakes in any of the areas you are focusing on. Depending on how much you follow a team will probably influence your awareness of all the issues teams have had, but I think it is safe to say that there isn't a GM/HC duo that is 100% correct with all their draft picks, personnel decisions, game plans, cap management, etc. You obviously follow this team closely and care about the team and we as Pats fans have become spoiled with the success so it is easy to think that the type of success that BB led the Pats to, should be easy enough to seamlessly transition into (i.e., plug in a new QB, new coordinators, new front office people, etc.). However, it seems as if BB is learning a new reality and let's give him another season or two to adjust to all the changes that have ravaged the stability he had built all these years. Brady, Ernie, Josh, Gronk, Jules, lots of assistants, etc. have moved on in a short span of years and although I had hoped for a quicker transition, I do think the direction they are heading in is fine and with a solid off-season and a bit of improvement with the current roster (another year in the system for those players, weigh training, etc.) I am quite excited to see BB lead us deep into the playoffs within the next two years and shortly thereafter hand the team off to his hand-picked replacement.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Rumors are that there was a lot of players volunteered to speak for Karen Guregian's article.

 

[archstanton543]

Have patriots / Bill Belichick lost his fast- ball on offense ?

Just observing the offense over 4 years , looks like we seem to have mismanaged drafts , coaches , playcalling and free agency.

Brady , Gronk, Edelman and white were the core which acted as a glue to keep offense intact with Scar doing his part to keep offensive line one of the league best and Josh making sure we were competitive and Brady doing the rest .

But now over last 4 year's if we obserce there are so many whiffs with the only constant being Belichick which makes me question whether Bill as a HC can really handle how offense needs to be run . I am not talking about playcalling , but the operational aspects of what is needed to get the offense running.

FA whiffs

1. Letting thuney leave for nothing
2. Getting paltry return for Shaq Mason
3. Getting peanuts for Garopollo
4. Getting robbed in Sanu trade
5. Getting fleeced again by Agholor
6. Allowing Jonnu to continue to con and commit day light robbery
7. Signing Wynn for 5th year option
8. Letting Brady leave with no compensation.

Operational decisions

1. Wasting a season with Cam despite the fact that he was washed and not really going with stidham which would have achieved same objective with Cam.
2. Killing team with Patricia and Judge hire
3. Not having backup for Scar
4. Not providing clarity on Caley
5. Not firing Achord
6. Not open to new ideas from people outside of bills circle of trust .
7. Killing QB Confidence by benching Mac in game midway.
8. No plan to replace Josh when we knew he would be leaving and not even interviewing others.

Drafts on offense

1. Isaiah Wynn- BUST
2. Sony michel - he is a JAG now looking at the way he is been bouncing off. With that OLine any RB would have had the success Michel had.
3. Nkeal Harry - the biggest culprit in a loaded WR class
4. Asiasi
5. Dalton Keene
6. Thornton - looks like a whiff compared to other receivers drafted this year .
7. Strange - has potential but is playing at levels of 3rd rounder.

Now chiefs have 7 pro bowlers despite always being in championship game or divisional game in last 4 years and they seem to be hitting their drafts really well . They even got a decent haul for Tyreek . Whilst patriots are yet to develop any game changing talent on offense .


Looking at all these factors in Unison, makes me question whether does Bill as of today at 70+ years really have a grip on how offense needs to be run because all around i just see failure. So in a offense led league we need to hope that BoB hasn't lost the fastball else we would need to start our rebuild afresh without Bill because the detriment to offense could be Bill himself .

Why are you listing trades in your Free Agent Whiffs?

 

[Kontradiction]

Losing your QB does more harm to the team than not converting a first down.

It’s football. He could be lost for the season taking a big hit in the pocket. If you need a first down and tuck the ball away (therefore taking away the forward pass once you cross the line of scrimmage) there isn’t a coach out there who would tell their QB to slide before the first down marker on 3rd down.

It really surprises me that you think this is an instruction Belichick wouldn't give.

Perhaps I have more respect for his football IQ than you do.

 

[Toofy]

Okay, first off i don't agree with all your assessments that they were bad decisions. Secondly, do this with every team and let me know how many teams have made mistakes in any of the areas you are focusing on. Depending on how much you follow a team will probably influence your awareness of all the issues teams have had, but I think it is safe to say that there isn't a GM/HC duo that is 100% correct with all their draft picks, personnel decisions, game plans, cap management, etc. You obviously follow this team closely and care about the team and we as Pats fans have become spoiled with the success so it is easy to think that the type of success that BB led the Pats to, should be easy enough to seamlessly transition into (i.e., plug in a new QB, new coordinators, new front office people, etc.). However, it seems as if BB is learning a new reality and let's give him another season or two to adjust to all the changes that have ravaged the stability he had built all these years. Brady, Ernie, Josh, Gronk, Jules, lots of assistants, etc. have moved on in a short span of years and although I had hoped for a quicker transition, I do think the direction they are heading in is fine and with a solid off-season and a bit of improvement with the current roster (another year in the system for those players, weigh training, etc.) I am quite excited to see BB lead us deep into the playoffs within the next two years and shortly thereafter hand the team off to his hand-picked replacement.

Please note this is not belittling belichicks success in the past , just that the recent history suggests that perhaps offense is no longer his forte and if he cedes control of it to professionals in that area on both draft and operations we could potentially see an improvement. Bob coming back is a welcome change . Just don't want us to revert back to older bad habits in drafts and possibly bill gives more freedom to Groh and Bob on that front .

 

[Toofy]

Why are you listing trades in your Free Agent Whiffs?

Just listed FA from both our team as well as others . Maybe could have listed trades as a separate catageory.

 

[TheRainMaker]

FA whiffs

1. Letting thuney leave for nothing
2. Getting paltry return for Shaq Mason
3. Getting peanuts for Garopollo
4. Getting robbed in Sanu trade
5. Getting fleeced again by Agholor
6. Allowing Jonnu to continue to con and commit day light robbery
7. Signing Wynn for 5th year option
8. Letting Brady leave with no compensation.

Bill has had a ton of terrible decisions throughout the years, but went unnoticed because Tom and the rest of the core players picked up the slack. He's not getting away with it anymore.

Trey Flowers was hyped up going into 2019 FA as a top target at DE. He could've been franchise tagged and traded to Detroit as Patricia was desperate to getting someone to buffer the locker room who he'd lost by the first training camp.

Thuney would've been tougher to tag and trade.

Bill couldn't get anything for Brady as he couldn't be franchised tagged.

 

[upstater1]

It’s football. He could be lost for the season taking a big hit in the pocket. If you need a first down and tuck the ball away (therefore taking away the forward pass once you cross the line of scrimmage) there isn’t a coach out there who would tell their QB to slide before the first down marker on 3rd down.



Perhaps I have more respect for his football IQ than you do.

This is one of the most common things coaches say to QBs running it. Be smart. You act like this is unusual. It's not. Announcers mention it all the time. What's shocking here is that you never heard of this.