If Cam is returning, we need a better QB room around him.

[Ollie]

Exactly.

Cam Newton is not a backup per himself. In my opinion, if we draft a rookie QB in the first round (which I don’t think we will) Cam is not good enough to be the starter no matter what. If the rookie shows promise in Camp and Cam will do anything to keep the starting job. He will certainly not help the rookie to take his place.

Again what is this even based on, the key phrase here is in my opinion. I expect Cam to work hard for the start but tio say he will do anything to start and that he won't help a rookie is just rubbish. You don't know what he will do.

 

[Kontradiction]

I am judging his entire record not a prediction what a team that still gave almost 60 million to spend will be. Part of being a gm is using that money to fill needs.

Yep. One of which was a need that he created... at the biggest position on the field... that he just filled with “the worst quarterback in the league” (your words). We have a need at every single positional grouping aside from maybe two of them. That isn’t a job well done by the GM. Those needs became exacerbated last year when he lost one of the most important components he had in the last two decades last season

By all means tell me all of the GMs who have won more than him and never had a down year, or needs to fill.

Sure. Which one of them was also the GOAT HC and had the best player at any position all time taking less-than-top of the market deals in the salary cap era (thereby giving the HC and GM a bazooka in a gun fight)? But of course, this is a silly counter argument probably made in an attempt to not criticize past work because of some stance you made in recent years while also being able to criticize signing Newton. It’s also easily dismantled because I can turn around and ask why they didn’t win Super Bowls in 2005, 2006, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2017, and/or 2019 and be able to point directly to his work as a GM as being the primary reason. Not that I really need to do that because it’s already extremely telling that you can’t even answer three simple questions that I’ve posed to you multiple times in this thread.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Again what is this even based on, the key phrase here is in my opinion. I expect Cam to work hard for the start but tio say he will do anything to start and that he won't help a rookie is just rubbish. You don't know what he will do.

You don’t know that he will do it either. It’s your opinion. Like mine is that I don’t think he will.

I don’t think Cam view himself as a placeholder to mentor a rookie for him to start next year.

 

[Ring 6]

Yep. One of which was a need that he created... at the biggest position on the field... that he just filled with “the worst quarterback in the league” (your words). We have a need at every single positional grouping aside from maybe two of them. That isn’t a job well done by the GM. Those needs became exacerbated last year when he lost one of the most important components he had in the last two decades last season



Sure. Which one of them was also the GOAT HC and had the best player at any position all time taking less-than-top of the market deals in the salary cap era (thereby giving the HC and GM a bazooka in a gun fight)? But of course, this is a silly counter argument probably made in an attempt to not criticize past work because of some stance you made in recent years while also being able to criticize signing Newton. It’s also easily dismantled because I can turn around and ask why they didn’t win Super Bowls in 2005, 2006, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2017, and/or 2019 and be able to point directly to his work as a GM as being the primary reason. Not that I really need to do that because it’s already extremely telling that you can’t even answer three simple questions that I’ve posed to you multiple times in this thread.

So you can’t name anyone who’s done a better job. I agree.
Your standard for why the GM who won the most SBs of any GM ever is that he didn’t win everyone?
Let’s fire him and hire that guy who won it every single year. Wait....

 

[luuked]

My personal bottom line is that if Belichick thinks that he has a reasonable chance at a top 10 quarterback at 5 or later, then he should do what it takes to get him.

The bottom line is that it all depends on their evaluation of the group of QBs. If their internal evaluation says the value is not there then there is no point in getting a QB in the top 10 just for the sake of doing it. They are spending millions on internal scouts, analysts and whatnot through the year and now is the time to trust your own process and projections.

And if one of the QBs that was in range turns out to be substantially better than your evaluation led you to believe you have do a post-mortem on what to fix / what was missed for the next go around. That is how you built sustainability.

 

[luuked]

Exactly.

Cam Newton is not a backup per himself. In my opinion, if we draft a rookie QB in the first round (which I don’t think we will) Cam is not good enough to be the starter no matter what. If the rookie shows promise in Camp and Cam will do anything to keep the starting job. He will certainly not help the rookie to take his place.

We could draft Lawrence and odds are he'd be redshirted the first year and Cam (or whatever vet QB) would start.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

We could draft Lawrence and odds are he'd be redshirted the first year and Cam (or whatever vet QB) would start.

And that would be a mistake. Based on the love affair between Bill and Cam it’s almost guarantee that no first round pick QB will be drafted. Imagine when Cam sucks, it will be hard for Bill to argue why you don’t play the 1st pick or the 7th(which is the prefered spot here.

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

And that would be a mistake. Based on the love affair between Bill and Cam it’s almost guarantee that no first round pick QB will be drafted. Imagine when Cam sucks, it will be hard for Bill to argue why you don’t play the 1st pick or the 7th(which is the prefered spot here.

He’s likely drafting a quarterback in the later rounds.

 

[Kontradiction]

So you can’t name anyone who’s done a better job. I agree.

Sure. Ozzie Newsome, Paul Brown, Ron Wolf, George Young, Jim Finks, **** Haley, Bobby Beathard, George Halas, Al Davis, and Tex Schramm all off the top of my head. And most of these guys had to do it without the inherent advantage that having the best player in NFL history taking less money than he was entitled to year after year under a hard cap gave Belichick.

Your standard for why the GM who won the most SBs of any GM ever is that he didn’t win everyone?

Nope. Just a response to show you how silly your counter argument of “sUpEr BoWlZ” is. My standard for evaluating him is not having 7 lean years of draft and needlessly parting ways with the GOAT QB earlier than he should have. That you already have to try to straw man your way out of it is telling as well. Because we would eventually get to one of two points (after several pages, I’m sure): 1) you say “we disagree” and stop responding, or 2) you’d have to fault his work as a GM for not actually winning more than he did. That’s where the road leads.

Let’s fire him and hire that guy who won it every single year. Wait....

10:07 AM. Is this your first straw man of the day, or have you dropped more? Not one single person has made that argument. Not even me... anywhere. I’m also not the one who has pontificated that the guy has dementia because the move he made at QB was so bad. That would be you.

Now, can you answer the three questions that I’ve posed to you before at least? Or am I to assume that you have no answer because you know it would blow up your argument?

 

[luuked]

And that would be a mistake. Based on the love affair between Bill and Cam it’s almost guarantee that no first round pick QB will be drafted. Imagine when Cam sucks, it will be hard for Bill to argue why you don’t play the 1st pick or the 7th(which is the prefered spot here.

It is not a mistake at all. You don't invest future assets to trade up and then only look at the short term. Instead you redshirt that QB and develop him for a while so when he steps on the field he is actually ready to run your offense at a high level. A QB in the top 10 is a long term investment and needs to be treated that way.

You need to apply less Madden logic and more real world thinking.

 

[venecol]

do we know he wasn't?

in the shortened season and with all that happened, i am guessing it was a scramble just to stay on pace........but by all accounts, cam is a professional.....does his film work, comports himself well, is a quality teammate........all traits that can be passed to a young QB

Idk, I'm honestly asking.

I know Stidham spoke how Brady was very helpful. I don't recall hearing anything about Cam from him. I'm asking since Idk.

 

[venecol]

You're assuming he wasn't? Do you have any information that he wasn't or just guessing?

It's a question. I'm not assuming anything.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

It is not a mistake at all. You don't invest future assets to trade up and then only look at the short term. Instead you redshirt that QB and develop him for a while so when he steps on the field he is actually ready to run your offense at a high level. A QB in the top 10 is a long term investment and needs to be treated that way.

You need to apply less Madden logic and more real world thinking.

I would agree if we had a better QB. The fact that we have Newton guarantee that your first round QB will play in 2021.

In the end look, at the Chargers I think they are glad that their doctor put a needle in Taylor lungs otherwise they would have lost a year of Herbert.

In my opinion, if you trade up in the top 7 to take a QB and you are not comfortable to start him over one of the worst QB in the league last year, then you made a wrong decision.

 

[Ring 6]

Sure. Ozzie Newsome, Paul Brown, Ron Wolf, George Young, Jim Finks, **** Haley, Bobby Beathard, George Halas, Al Davis, and Tex Schramm all off the top of my head. And most of these guys had to do it without the inherent advantage that having the best player in NFL history taking less money than he was entitled to year after year under a hard cap gave Belichick.



Nope. Just a response to show you how silly your counter argument of “sUpEr BoWlZ” is. My standard for evaluating him is not having 7 lean years of draft and needlessly parting ways with the GOAT QB earlier than he should have. That you already have to try to straw man your way out of it is telling as well. Because we would eventually get to one of two points (after several pages, I’m sure): 1) you say “we disagree” and stop responding, or 2) you’d have to fault his work as a GM for not actually winning more than he did. That’s where the road leads.



10:07 AM. Is this your first straw man of the day, or have you dropped more? Not one single person has made that argument. Not even me... anywhere. I’m also not the one who has pontificated that the guy has dementia because the move he made at QB was so bad. That would be you.

Now, can you answer the three questions that I’ve posed to you before at least? Or am I to assume that you have no answer because you know it would blow up your argument?

You can only be joking with this response. The job of a gm is to win. That’s it. He has won more than any of the people you listed.
Your expectation that to not be trash he had to win 20 SBs is silly.
I understand you have an agenda but pretending there is success where there isn’t and denying success where it exists just turns the whole discussion into a clusterf#ck. This will now lead to you repeat the same bad arguments over and over and increasingly attempting to personally insult anyone who disagrees with your terrible take.
**** Haley, Ron Wolf, Ozzie Newsome, George Young, jim finks, Bobby beathard, Al Davis lol.
Please list their accomplishments side by side with belichick. Of course you won’t.

 

[yukon cornelius]

I would agree if we had a better QB. The fact that we have Newton guarantee that your first round QB will play in 2021.

In the end look, at the Chargers I think they are glad that their doctor put a needle in Taylor lungs otherwise they would have lost a year of Herbert.

In my opinion, if you trade up in the top 7 to take a QB and you are not comfortable to start him over one of the worst QB in the league last year, then you made a wrong decision.

the jury is very, very much out on starting rookie QB's in terms of their development - every QB in this draft that isn't lawrence needs development.....generally speaking, the path to success with such QB's is a redshirt year......more QB careers have been broken by playing. them too soon than have been made

 

[venecol]

The bottom line is that it all depends on their evaluation of the group of QBs. If their internal evaluation says the value is not there then there is no point in getting a QB in the top 10 just for the sake of doing it. They are spending millions on internal scouts, analysts and whatnot through the year and now is the time to trust your own process and projections.

 

[Ollie]

You don’t know that he will do it either. It’s your opinion. Like mine is that I don’t think he will.

I don’t think Cam view himself as a placeholder to mentor a rookie for him to start next year.

I'm not actually expressing an opinion, i'm not saying he will or won't help. We have heard Bill talk about what a great teammate Cam is and of the effort he has put in around the organisation but that's all i know. You are saying Cam won't help a rookie based on no evidence. He might be the most helpful teammate ever. But to say he isn't based on nothing doesn't make sense.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

I'm not actually expressing an opinion, i'm not saying he will or won't help. We have heard Bill talk about what a great teammate Cam is and of the effort he has put in around the organisation but that's all i know. You are saying Cam won't help a rookie based on no evidence. He might be the most helpful teammate ever. But to say he isn't based on nothing doesn't make sense.

What could he do? Cam was so bad last year that the only angle that Bill could push was that he is a great teammate. When someone remind me every week how great teammate someone is, I start to ask myself why do I need to be reminded every week

 

[jal]

If we end up signing a true #1 WR, no excuses for whatever QB ends up starting. We will have a top OL, better than average RB corp, average receiving corp (including the TE), and what should be at least a top 10 defense. More than enough to make the playoffs with a decent QB and be a true contender with a franchise / superstar QB.