idle thoughts- stepping back from the edge

[Zeus]

Maybe because Vince young was busy having a career day?

Well, I assume you saw the game. Young completed two long passes and put 10 points up in the first six minutes. After that, the Eagles were limited to one FG until the last minute garbage time TD. If that's a career day, that's not much of a career.

NE set out to take away McCoy and did just that. By the way, 22 of his 31 yards came on one carry. You may find criticizing the play of the Patriots against the Eagles to be less fertile ground than a number of other games.

 

[Deus Irae]

Well, I assume you saw the game. Young completed two long passes and put 10 points up in the first six minutes. After that, the Eagles were limited to one FG until the last minute garbage time TD. If that's a career day, that's not much of a career.

NE set out to take away McCoy and did just that. By the way, 22 of his 31 yards came on one carry. You may find criticizing the play of the Patriots against the Eagles to be less fertile ground than a number of other games.

The Eagles were dropping/missing TD passes as if they were hot volcanic rock. The statement that they were 'limited' to anything is misleading, at best.

 

[ausbacker]

The Eagles were dropping/missing TD passes as if they were hot volcanic rock. The statement that they were 'limited' to anything is misleading, at best.

That's simply not true Deus and your comment is misleading at best. The Patriots schemed to take away McCoy and they successfully achieved that. Young went 26/48. That's 22 incompletions that were a combination of missed passes and a few drops.

 

[Zeus]

The Eagles were dropping/missing TD passes as if they were hot volcanic rock. The statement that they were 'limited' to anything is misleading, at best.

My statement was factual. " ... dropping/misiing TD passes as if they were hot volcanic rock" - perhaps a bit of hyperbole.

I thought that the team handled the adversity of getting down early in a hostile environment well. They kept their poise and kept fighting. It was a good win. No question that Vince Young's limitations and erratic throwing made it easier for them, but he's the guy they played that day.

In any event, I was responding to the comment that the D hadn't locked down anything all year. They shut down McCoy - likely his worst game of the year. The response was that Young had a career day. You and I both know that isn't close to accurate.

 

[ATippett56]

In any event, I was responding to the comment that the D hadn't locked down anything all year. They shut down McCoy - likely his worst game of the year. The response was that Young had a career day. You and I both know that isn't close to accurate.

The New England Patriots rush defense has not been a problem all year until the Washington Redskins game.

 

[Deus Irae]

That's simply not true Deus and your comment is misleading at best. The Patriots schemed to take away McCoy and they successfully achieved that. Young went 26/48. That's 22 incompletions that were a combination of missed passes and a few drops.

My statement was factual. " ... dropping/misiing TD passes as if they were hot volcanic rock" - perhaps a bit of hyperbole.

I thought that the team handled the adversity of getting down early in a hostile environment well. They kept their poise and kept fighting. It was a good win. No question that Vince Young's limitations and erratic throwing made it easier for them, but he's the guy they played that day.

In any event, I was responding to the comment that the D hadn't locked down anything all year. They shut down McCoy - likely his worst game of the year. The response was that Young had a career day. You and I both know that isn't close to accurate.

No, it is true. I watched the game. I saw the drops and the alligator arms. Hell, Patriots.com even has it:

Jackson dropped what could've been a 4-yard touchdown pass and the Eagles settled for a 22-yard field goal to get within 21-13.


It was the second time in the first half that Jackson appeared to shy away from contact and dropped a pass across the middle.

He dropped a deep pass that could've been a touchdown in the third quarter, and was benched in the fourth quarter.

Game Recap: Patriots 38, Eagles 20

Also, that was just the third time in his NFL career that Young had surpassed 300 yards passing. The rear view mirror is making yet another performance seem a whole lot better than it was, apparently.

 

[ausbacker]

No, it is true. I watched the game. I saw the drops and the alligator arms. Hell, Patriots.com even has it:

Game Recap: Patriots 38, Eagles 20

Also, that was just the third time in his NFL career that Young had surpassed 300 yards passing. The rear view mirror is making yet another performance seem a whole lot better than it was, apparently.

So DeSean Jackson dropping one pass that could have been considered a reasonable chance at completion and another long bomb surrounded by double coverage is now considered "hot volcanic rock"?

The funny thing is Deus, I watched that game too. Jackson dropped one I'd consider a reasonable completion. That was it.

 

[Deus Irae]

So DeSean Jackson dropping one pass that could have been considered a reasonable chance at completion and another long bomb surrounded by double coverage is now considered "hot volcanic rock"?

The funny thing is Deus, I watched that game too. Jackson dropped one I'd consider a reasonable completion. That was it.

Both were easy catches.

 

[ausbacker]

Both were easy catches.

I don't agree with you and that doesn't make your assessment that both were easy correct either. The first drop was an easy catch, the second drop was a marginal 50/50 completion.

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't agree with you and that doesn't make your assessment that both were easy correct either. The first drop was an easy catch, the second drop was a marginal 50/50 completion.

If you wish to disagree with the tape, the analysts/reporters from both cities and the NFL network, the stills, and the Eagles coaching staff, that's up to you.

Here's a still of one of his TD drops. This is not the alligator arm play:

Here are some written takes that aren't mine... From an article:

Jackson was benched down the stretch of the 38-20 loss to the Patriots. He dropped three passes on the night, including a pair of would-be touchdowns.

DeSean Jackson Explains Dropped Passes

And another

It was another sloppy game on both sides of the football for the Birds. Desean Jackson dropped two touchdown passes and added a third drop for good measure.

Eagles Embarrased by Patriots, 38-20 | 97.3 ESPN

And another

A few huge passes dropped by Desean Jackson could have turned into points for the Eagles,

Patriots 38, Eagles 20: Tom Brady, New England Fly Past Philadelphia - SB Nation Boston

Video (commentary at around 2:50 is on point)

http://www.patriots.com/media-center/videos/Highlights-Patriots-at-Eagles/6432f3cf-b15f-40f0-bf80-387f85cd9bcf

I'd point out more, but you seem to have your mind made up.

 

[ausbacker]

Feel free to go AndyJohnson Deus. That hasn't stopped you in the past trumpeting you're right and others are wrong. Interestingly, the references you've pulled are describing them as dropped passes, not that they were easy dropped passes for touchdowns (bar 1).

DeSean Jackson Explains Dropped Passes

Jackson dropped a sure-fire touchdown pass across the middle late in the first half and was booed off the field. In the second half, he couldn’t come up with a long toss from Young that would have been six.

All you have successfully proven is that Jackson dropped one sure thing TD (which I agree with), one circumstantial long completion for a potential TD and one pass. Well color me pink if I hadn't already said that.

 

[ATippett56]

The New England Patriots don't have a free safety on the roster worth a damn.

Time to look at next year's crop of free safeties eligible for the 2012 NFL Draft.

NFL Draft - 2012_FS Draft Prospects - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

 

[robbomango]

Nice post Patfan,

Not sure if fans are spoiled or genuinely critical but the attacks definitely signaled a dog fight. It's frustrating implementing a game plan without BB or Mr Kraft's ear, don't be so harsh.

 

[Deus Irae]

Feel free to go AndyJohnson Deus. That hasn't stopped you in the past trumpeting you're right and others are wrong. Interestingly, the references you've pulled are describing them as dropped passes, not that they were easy dropped passes for touchdowns (bar 1).



All you have successfully proven is that Jackson dropped one sure thing TD (which I agree with), one circumstantial long completion for a potential TD and one pass. Well color me pink if I hadn't already said that.

I'm not going Andy. I pointed out what happened. I even showed a still of one of them. You're welcome to keep tilting at windmills all you want.

The still is a still of the LONG completion for the TD, which hit him right in the numbers. So, the one you're calling "circumstantial", and not the sure thing, is the one I posted the photo of. It's also in the video I posted the link to. You can call that 50/50 all you want.

On that note, have a good one.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

This defense hasn't locked anything down

They're 13th in rushing yards allowed, 1 yard per game behind GB and 2 yards per game better than the Jets, after this past week. Its one part of the D thats decent, and their middle of the pack in red zone D.

 

[ausbacker]

I'm not going Andy. I pointed out what happened. I even showed a still of one of them. You're welcome to keep tilting at windmills all you want.

The still is a still of the LONG completion for the TD, which hit him right in the numbers. So, the one you're calling "circumstantial", and not the sure thing, is the one I posted the photo of. It's also in the video I posted the link to. You can call that 50/50 all you want.

On that note, have a good one.

Yep, having a defender run straight across your line of sight as the ball is coming toward you must be considered an easy completion right? That's circumstantial at best I'm afraid.

 

[AzPatsFan]

That's bullsh!t..

Maybe if they'd solve some of the glaring weaknesses on both sides of the ball, people here (and also in the Patriot locker room, just in case you hadn't noticed it's not all candy canes and unicorns over there) would/could actually feel better.

In the past 2 weeks against BOTTOM tiered competition (teams with a combined 4-21 record), we've seen :

DEFENSE

Absolutely horrible pass defense. Pass defense so bad, you wonder how any of the secondary actually made it through high school at these positions.

Pretty shoddy run defense. I don't want to hear about any "top 15" numbers, because everyone chooses to throw vs us anyway--they'd be dumb not to. Those "top 15" numbers regarding the rush defense don't mean anything. The eye test will tell you that we've seen them give some pretty ineffective performances in this aspect this season.

Failure to consistantly pressure the QB. Yes, even though Andre Carter is this team's saving grace as far as pressuring the QB goes, they cannot do it 1/2 as well as many of the good teams in the league.


OFFENSE

Failure to properly protect the QB. Again, someone will bring up some skewed stat that says Brady is getting good protection, but he's not. I don't remember seeing him have to constantly step around in the pocket so much, run so much, and rush his throws so much. Not only that, but let's remember that one good hit will end this whole thing...he has been getting too many hits in the past month for my liking.

Failure to beat man coverage. Without Gronkowski this team would have at least 3 more losses. If anyone finds a way to successfully cover, stop, or slow down Gronkowski--we are all in trouble. You can't help but wonder how long it will be before good man to man coverage and pressure slows Brady down to making a mistake (God forbid, like in the NYJ game in January, where he "only" threw for 300 yards, 2 TD's and 1 INT, with a QB rating that was actually higher than his average). Then everyone can pick on Tom, and say how lousy he's looked at times throughout the year. It's only a matter of time, right?

The ineffectiveness of the running game. Teams that win in January can run the ball, chewing clock up and limiting their opponents TOP. Has anyone seen our TOP stats this yr? It's almost unbelievable.

----------------

I can't see how someone like you could possibly say that "nothing they can do will be good enough?"

How about some improvements, or maybe a solid win against teams that currently have 4-21 records (Colts, Skins)?

Usually teams that actually have a shot start there......

We can get lucky and ride Brady to the AFC Championship, if the seeding sets up and they win a home playoff game with a bye. I suppose that's reason enough to be happy in some aspects, but if you're expecting fans (as you say, fans "here on patsfans.com)," media, or even any coach or player in the locker room to actually feel positive moving forward, you are incredibly short-sighted and overly optimistic.

I get so tired of "realists" who repeat ad nauseum that this winning Team is NOT perfect.

I know that already!! BOZOs!

I would rather credit the gutsy, gritty Team and Coaches to have produced a 10-3 record whan faced with all those injuries. I am applauding the Coaches and Players Still finding a way to win.

Despite injuries and playing a pair of safeties that wouldn't be thought of as the #6 and #7 emergency Safeties. It is almost as bad that the only CBs are walking wounded McCourty and Arrington. Who is the third CB and slot nickel back? Can you even name him.

This may be Bill Belichick's very best year of coaching. We are ALREADY far ahead of where an ordinary Coach would take the injury devastated Patriots. I am just enjoying the ride, marveling at how they manage to eke out a victory each week, and satisfied no matter how far they eventually get.

Meanwhile BB is laying the foundation for a very good Defense next season and beyond. Wilfork and Carter are good linemen. Mayo, Spikes, Ninko and Fletcher are turning into better than average LBs. McCourty and surprisingly Arrington are becoming above average CBs. There is hope if Chung ever gets healthy at Safety too.

How bad can a healthy Defense be with a few good players in every one of the defensive positions?

It is just amazing to get a Team that could have collaped to 5-11 with most Coaches, into competing for the best record in the Conference. I need not even discuss the Offense as it is very good, and will get better the next few years.

 

[supafly]

I get so tired of "realists" who repeat ad nauseum that this winning Team is NOT perfect.

I know that already!! BOZOs!

I would rather credit the gutsy, gritty Team and Coaches to have produced a 10-3 record whan faced with all those injuries. I am applauding the Coaches and Players Still finding a way to win.

Despite injuries and playing a pair of safeties that wouldn't be thought of as the #6 and #7 emergency Safeties. It is almost as bad that the only CBs are walking wounded McCourty and Arrington. Who is the third CB and slot nickel back? Can you even name him.

This may be Bill Belichick's very best year of coaching. We are ALREADY far ahead of where an ordinary Coach would take the injury devastated Patriots. I am just enjoying the ride, marveling at how they manage to eke out a victory each week, and satisfied no matter how far they eventually get.

Meanwhile BB is laying the foundation for a very good Defense next season and beyond. Wilfork and Carter are good linemen. Mayo, Spikes, Ninko and Fletcher are turning into better than average LBs. McCourty and surprisingly Arrington are becoming above average CBs. There is hope if Chung ever gets healthy at Safety too.

How bad can a healthy Defense be with a few good players in every one of the defensive positions?

It is just amazing to get a Team that could have collaped to 5-11 with most Coaches, into competing for the best record in the Conference. I need not even discuss the Offense as it is very good, and will get better the next few years.

I have had plenty of those kind of posts and threads too, AZ. Believe me. If anything, I am a lot more of a "homer" than I am a chicken little.

I had a nice long rant thread that tried to wake people up after the loss to the Steelers and NYGiants, when forum morale was at an all time low (for 2011 anyway )

Sometimes, you've got to tell it like it is though. No one is expecting this team to be "perfect" as you say. But barely beating 2 teams with winning percentages in the teens will make you think about what lies ahead when you see real talent and playoff caliber squads.

If that makes me somewhat of a realist, then so be it I guess??

I prefer to think of myself as more of a homer or 'cautiously optimistic.'

If you found a lot of positives in the past couple of games, then that's great, and that is seriously a gift that will take you a lot farther than most.

But as we come to the stretch run of the season and prepare against teams like Baltimore, Pittsburgh, and even Houston (lots are writing them off), not to mention the possibility of teams like New Orleans, and Green Bay---one would think that this team is not going to get us to the promised land with a terrible defense like we've seen.

I think the frustrating thing was how much I was sticking up for the defense prior to the Colts game, only to see them take such a long step back.

While I appreciate the thoughts, let's not forget that we had to go to an onsides kick to beat a 0-12 team, and that we walked out of Washington with a pick at our own 5 yd line. How many times do you think teams score at the 5 yard line with 4 downs? Especially when they'd already put up 27 points to that point, and made the secondary look like a Keystone Cops episode out there....not to mention rushing for more than 5 yards per carry...

So, again...don't shoot the messenger

And PS---despite my red nose and blue hair, I honestly am not a 'bozo..' I promise you.

 

[supafly]

Meanwhile BB is laying the foundation for a very good Defense next season and beyond.

Yes, we've all heard (as you say) 'ad nauseum' about the supposed improvements of the defense every year. We've all closely followed every draft thread in the middle of March and April. We've all closely followed the labor situation in the middle of the summer, on a daily basis; only to continuously hit the "refresh" button on our favorite website during free agency every day for weeks on end.

This has happened for what? 4 yrs in a row now?

It isn't my fault that expectations for this defense were high, just about every year in the past few years.

While you claim that BB is "laying the foundation" for a very good defense, they are going down in the history books as the team who allows the most passing yardage...EVER in NFL history. And that's coming off a year when they were the worst team in the NFL at the position last yr too.

The 3rd down defense last yr was atrocious, and this yr is just as bad. They are currently 30th out of 32 teams, with many 2-11 and 3-10/4-9 teams ahead of them.

You may claim that the foundations are being layed (once again), but you can't honestly blame the natives for getting a bit restless either.

-------------

Your point that the team has overcome many obstacles is a great one, a very valid one, and that should not go by the waistside. I agree that BB is doing an incredible coaching job, as we've seen last year too, and in 08 when Brady went down.

Those are ALL great things to focus on, and you are right, every Sunday in this era is a gift, as long as the team can compete.

Many could indeed learn a lesson by having your positive attitude, but at the same time, you can't necessarily blame them for not sharing ALL of the enthusiasm. There should probably be a middle-ground, and that's where I have tried to lie.

If my 'realist' assessment bothered you, then I apologize (seriously). But part of this forum is hearing BOTH sides, and viewing things from different angles in regards to the truth, and sometimes you've got to call it like you see it.

 

[shmessy]

I get so tired of "realists" who repeat ad nauseum that this winning Team is NOT perfect.

I know that already!! BOZOs!

I would rather credit the gutsy, gritty Team and Coaches to have produced a 10-3 record whan faced with all those injuries. I am applauding the Coaches and Players Still finding a way to win.

Despite injuries and playing a pair of safeties that wouldn't be thought of as the #6 and #7 emergency Safeties. It is almost as bad that the only CBs are walking wounded McCourty and Arrington. Who is the third CB and slot nickel back? Can you even name him.

This may be Bill Belichick's very best year of coaching. We are ALREADY far ahead of where an ordinary Coach would take the injury devastated Patriots. I am just enjoying the ride, marveling at how they manage to eke out a victory each week, and satisfied no matter how far they eventually get.

Meanwhile BB is laying the foundation for a very good Defense next season and beyond. Wilfork and Carter are good linemen. Mayo, Spikes, Ninko and Fletcher are turning into better than average LBs. McCourty and surprisingly Arrington are becoming above average CBs. There is hope if Chung ever gets healthy at Safety too.

How bad can a healthy Defense be with a few good players in every one of the defensive positions?

It is just amazing to get a Team that could have collaped to 5-11 with most Coaches, into competing for the best record in the Conference. I need not even discuss the Offense as it is very good, and will get better the next few years.

I very much agree - - BB the coach has been outstanding this year.

Your excellent post, however, makes conclusive that BB the GM must be shown the door.