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Idle thoughts - Jimmy G, Cam and Stiddy

2021 Patriots Season:
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Sep 12th

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sb1

Pro Bowl Player
Like for Cam, Stidham gets a mulligan for his 2A 2020 Covid no preseason weak offensive support disappointment. Stidham's 2B 2021 more normal season will be his make or break it chance.
Stidham was not better in any way than Cam was in 2020 and that's really remarkable when you think about it.
 

sb1

Pro Bowl Player
So wait, you don't like Stidham?? Huh, who would have guessed.
I don't hate anybody I just like good QB's on my team a lot better than crappy ones. It's like preferring a bowl of ice cream to a bowl of horse crap.
 
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Joker

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
I don't hate anybody I just like good QB's on my team a lot better than crappy ones.
I like good TEAMS...in fact I like good PATRIOT teams...like the team in 2001 that won our 1st super bowl with an unknown 6th round draft pick nobody. You see, back then there were thousands of "I want a good QB like my Bledsoe!!!! Waaaah Waaah Waaaah".Thank the stars BB did NOT listen to these plaintive cries from the cheap seats.

Flash forward to 2021 and it's the same friggin' tunnel vision. Relax.
 

sb1

Pro Bowl Player
I like good TEAMS...in fact I like good PATRIOT teams...like the team in 2001 that won our 1st super bowl with an unknown 6th round draft pick nobody. You see, back then there were thousands of "I want a good QB like my Bledsoe!!!! Waaaah Waaah Waaaah".Thank the stars BB did NOT listen to these plaintive cries from the cheap seats.

Flash forward to 2021 and it's the same friggin' tunnel vision. Relax.

Lots of debate and wordsmithing here whether Brady was "elite" from the very beginning but I think most of us will agree it was obviously really quickly that Brady had "it". He was special and we all wanted to see more. He took a massive step forward from his rookie year. Drew wasn't a fit anymore for the way his team would do things on offense. BB recognized that and the rest is history.

Stidham doesn't have "it". He didn't take a step forward from his rookie year he went backwards. He doesn't belong in the same sentence as the GOAT. He never will belong in that sentence. There's zero evidence to date that he even belongs in the league. Sure he could all of a sudden figure it out, but I wouldn't hold my breath for that to happen.

Apples and oranges here imo.
 

Joker

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Lots of debate and wordsmithing here whether Brady was "elite" from the very beginning but I think most of us will agree it was obviously really quickly that Brady had "it". He was special and we all wanted to see more. Drew wasn't a fit anymore for the way his team would do things on offense. BB recognized that and the rest is history.

Stidham doesn't have "it". He doesn't belong in the same sentence as the GOAT. He never will be worthy of that. There's zero evidence to date that he even belongs in the league.

Apples and oranges here imo.
No goddyamed "wordsmithing" or any other shyt. THat team won on the leg and nerves of the greatest money kicker in NFL history and the clutch route running and receiving by Troy Brown, buttressed by a defense that knocked Warner loopy. ...and YOU know it. Don't pull this crap with me. That TEAM is why the Pats won the Super Bowl. All Brady did that game was follow directions and not choke. AFTER that game is when the fanbase began to realize that MAYBE Brady "had it". It wasn't confirmed until two years later.
 

sb1

Pro Bowl Player
No goddyamed "wordsmithing" or any other shyt. THat team won on the leg and nerves of the greatest money kicker in NFL history and the clutch route running and receiving by Troy Brown, buttressed by a defense that knocked Warner loopy. ...and YOU know it. Don't pull this crap with me. That TEAM is why the Pats won the Super Bowl. All Brady did that game was follow directions and not choke. AFTER that game is when the fanbase began to realize that MAYBE Brady "had it". It wasn't confirmed until two years later.
Yeah obviously it didn't hurt either to have a great kicker, a playmaking defense and offense tailored for him.

BB is on record saying he knew Brady was special from day one even in his rookie year. He raved about his clear leadership on the field and had a great camp in 2001. It was apparent that they had something there. I'll take his word for it.

No he wasn't the best QB in the league in 2001 but it was clear to me he had "it". Not a coincidence that the team's (and HC's) fortunes turned around the moment Brady had to step in for Bledsoe.

BB never said anything like that about Stidham other than a tepid endorsement and McDaniels with even less than that. Any comparison of where Brady was at vs Stidham now is trash. Brady is a once in a lifetime special player, we'll never find or see a guy like him ever again. The Patriots can easily find another guy just like Stidham on day 3 in this year's draft.
 

Joker

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where the hell are you getting I'm comparing Stidham to Brady?????????????? I'm saying COMPLAINING ABOUT THE QB like he's the only important piece of a team winning is TOTAL BLINDNESS. You've been brainwashed by Ring-0Around-The-Rosey 6 and his Cam hatred
 

stinkypete

In the Starting Line-Up
Wilson in the third round and Brady in the 6th round were nowhere close to being top 10 picks. Dolla Bill needs to let the second tier quarterbacks come to him. Everybody has a different preference. However, trading up to reach for somebody he most likes in Round 2 or Round 3 costs so little in terms of draft capital and expectations compared to picking a top 10 possible flop. Maybe Jones is a backup plan if BB has his man picked out for Round 2 or 3. If so, he might trade back with Jacksonville (the team best situated to maybe move up) with picks 25, 33 and 45 on their board. Jones is a value at 25 or 33. However, Mills is my man, but you can debate who will really be their choice. Moving around for a late second or early third round pick is a reasonable risk for Mills or whoever else BB covets.

You hit the nail on the head. Consider the 2013 draft, Miami traded a 2nd round pick to move up from #12 to #3 to draft Dion Jordan, and that was considered poor value at the time. Now it costs 2 additional first round picks and a 3rd to make the same move?

The QB market is inflating at ludacris speed, and with the SF trade it's officially gone to plaid. It's as if young QBs are at threat of imminent extinction. Market inefficiency is at an all time high. Rumors that Belichick will give up such a haul to trade to #4 or #5 are about as plasuable as the latest Qanon posting. Maybe, MAYBE, Belichick likes Jones enough to give up a 2nd or 3rd to get him. More likely, he's stirring the BS pot in hopes that Denver panics, so that Smith or Parsons or Surtain drops into his lap.

Onto Jimmy G...why would Belichick overpay (both in draft picks and cap space) for Garoppolo when he is destined to be cut in 11 months? Garoppolo is not Brady, he can not elevate a mediocre team to greatness. Trading for Garoppolo would require us to trade or cut Gilmore yesterday. Are we really better off with Garoppolo and an average pass defense over Newton and an elite one? Seems like trading one version of a 11 - 6 team for different type of 11 - 6 team.

Load the roster, roll the dice with Cam, Mond, whoever else. Compete, maybe win a playoff game, its not like this team is winning next year's Super Bowl either way. Look ahead to 2022. Garoppolo will be cut. Aaron Rodgers might be cut too. Wilson will be on the block. Watson may be available. There will be another draft.
 

One-If-By-Sea

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Sorry I did not read the whole thread.

What if Jimmy refuses to go to camp and shows up after the 3rd (or is it 2nd?) pre-season game? Also I think he can skip a few games and then show up and he still gets credit for the season? Either case puts the 9ers in a bad situation. Not sure BB would care if Jimmy held out for awhile - we all know the 9ers have moved on and if they refuse to talk to Jimmy and trade him if he wants, that is being awkward (just like Jimmy holding out all summer is being awkward). If Jimmy held out all summer the 9ers still have to go sign another QB from somewhere so they must have already planned for that contingency. The 9ers know all of these possibilities and must be planning to move on.
 

Ochmed Jones

Pro Bowl Player
Sorry I did not read the whole thread.

What if Jimmy refuses to go to camp and shows up after the 3rd (or is it 2nd?) pre-season game? Also I think he can skip a few games and then show up and he still gets credit for the season? Either case puts the 9ers in a bad situation. Not sure BB would care if Jimmy held out for awhile - we all know the 9ers have moved on and if they refuse to talk to Jimmy and trade him if he wants, that is being awkward (just like Jimmy holding out all summer is being awkward). If Jimmy held out all summer the 9ers still have to go sign another QB from somewhere so they must have already planned for that contingency. The 9ers know all of these possibilities and must be planning to move on.

what do the 49ers do if jimmy gets hurt in the 3rd preseason game?
 

The Boomer

On the Roster
More likely, he's stirring the BS pot in hopes that Denver panics, so that Smith or Parsons or Surtain drops into his lap.
Exactly. Based on all this propaganda, the fans will howl if their speculative expectations are not fulfilled because all the hype for certain players and all the pundits BS circulating in the world. Certain historical trends are predictable. BB will not trade the farm to move high up into the first round to fill a significant team need. He will choose who he believes is the best player available at every pick although he will move up and down trying to maneuver to get his preferred players. BB consistently is motivated by his constant search for value above all else.

Despite mistakes made (like other teams) with some early picks, BB will regularly find value in lower rounds and on the UFA market (David Andrews among others). He quickly moves on from his mistakes (K Rohrwasser was the latest) to find surprising talent in later rounds. Brady, Edelman and Onwenwu prove there is sometimes 6th and 7th round draft talent available if you trust your scouting.
 

Jovak

Rookie
I don't think Jimmy G. is a very good QB. NFL.com has Jimmy ranked 30th behind Dalton, Goff, Fitzmagic, Taysom Hill, etc. I know the 49ers have a winning record when Jimmy starts, but his stats show a QB that throws short passes with too many interceptions.
 

Ochmed Jones

Pro Bowl Player
Exactly. Based on all this propaganda, the fans will howl if their speculative expectations are not fulfilled because all the hype for certain players and all the pundits BS circulating in the world. Certain historical trends are predictable. BB will not trade the farm to move high up into the first round to fill a significant team need. He will choose who he believes is the best player available at every pick although he will move up and down trying to maneuver to get his preferred players. BB consistently is motivated by his constant search for value above all else.

Despite mistakes made (like other teams) with some early picks, BB will regularly find value in lower rounds and on the UFA market (David Andrews among others). He quickly moves on from his mistakes (K Rohrwasser was the latest) to find surprising talent in later rounds. Brady, Edelman and Onwenwu prove there is sometimes 6th and 7th round draft talent available if you trust your scouting.

this is the perfect draft to find gems on day 3. The short season and the lack of proper scouting, means some kids who would normally rise after the season, may not get that chance this year. I think bb will trade away a few day three picks but should be able to find some quality players with the ones he does keep.
 

rochrist

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Wilson in the third round and Brady in the 6th round were nowhere close to being top 10 picks. Dolla Bill needs to let the second tier quarterbacks come to him. Everybody has a different preference. However, trading up to reach for somebody he most likes in Round 2 or Round 3 costs so little in terms of draft capital and expectations compared to picking a top 10 possible flop. Maybe Jones is a backup plan if BB has his man picked out for Round 2 or 3. If so, he might trade back with Jacksonville (the team best situated to maybe move up) with picks 25, 33 and 45 on their board. Jones is a value at 25 or 33. However, Mills is my man, but you can debate who will really be their choice. Moving around for a late second or early third round pick is a reasonable risk for Mills or whoever else BB covets.
Jones does not last till 25 let alone 33. I'm dubious he lasts till 15.
 

rochrist

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Sorry I did not read the whole thread.

What if Jimmy refuses to go to camp and shows up after the 3rd (or is it 2nd?) pre-season game? Also I think he can skip a few games and then show up and he still gets credit for the season? Either case puts the 9ers in a bad situation. Not sure BB would care if Jimmy held out for awhile - we all know the 9ers have moved on and if they refuse to talk to Jimmy and trade him if he wants, that is being awkward (just like Jimmy holding out all summer is being awkward). If Jimmy held out all summer the 9ers still have to go sign another QB from somewhere so they must have already planned for that contingency. The 9ers know all of these possibilities and must be planning to move on.
He can hold out till game 8.
 

ToonPatriot

Practice Squad Player
Howell of unc is a stud qb and will be coming out next year.
I'm not picking on you, but i've seen a lot of people excuse not trading up this year for "there's always next year". I don't know much about Howell, but if he's good he'll go top 10, they'll be more QB needy teams and you'd assume we'll have a lower draft pick next year too. So we'll be repeating the same conversations on how BB won't mortgage the future to trade up etc etc. That's why for me it's always made sense to get a guy this year when we're unusually high in the draft. SF threw a spanner in the works sure, but it's still doable.
 

luuked

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Sorry I did not read the whole thread.

What if Jimmy refuses to go to camp and shows up after the 3rd (or is it 2nd?) pre-season game? Also I think he can skip a few games and then show up and he still gets credit for the season? Either case puts the 9ers in a bad situation. Not sure BB would care if Jimmy held out for awhile - we all know the 9ers have moved on and if they refuse to talk to Jimmy and trade him if he wants, that is being awkward (just like Jimmy holding out all summer is being awkward). If Jimmy held out all summer the 9ers still have to go sign another QB from somewhere so they must have already planned for that contingency. The 9ers know all of these possibilities and must be planning to move on.

How would holding out after the team has drafted his eventual replacement help Jimmy in any shape or form in terms of future deals ? He is a reclamation project at this point and what he really needs is a strong year to push himself back into the 20M APY club.


The most likely scenario is that him and the 49ers will play ball agree on a heavy restructure that might even void his final year in 2022 and make him a FA after this season. The 49ers would gain them year where they can develop whoever they pick at #3 out of it while JG goes through what is essentially a prove-it year for a chance to cash in another time in FA.

The main downside is that by voiding that year the 49ers would essentially give up on a potential 3rd round comp pick for him because as far as I understand he'd only qualify if the original length of the contract is met. Of course they could keep the 2022 year in place but at that point everyone knows that you will not start him anymore unless your new shiny QB is actually a cluster****.
 

sb1

Pro Bowl Player
where the hell are you getting I'm comparing Stidham to Brady?????????????? I'm saying COMPLAINING ABOUT THE QB like he's the only important piece of a team winning is TOTAL BLINDNESS. You've been brainwashed by Ring-0Around-The-Rosey 6 and his Cam hatred
Didn’t say you did. I’m just reading stuff like “yeah but Brady took a while to develop too” or “Brady was drafted in the 6th round. Stidham is a 4th rounder so....” The two cannot be compared - period.

QB isn’t the only important piece of a team but he’s the most important for sure. Even more than a head coach IMO.
 

sb1

Pro Bowl Player
I don't think Jimmy G. is a very good QB. NFL.com has Jimmy ranked 30th behind Dalton, Goff, Fitzmagic, Taysom Hill, etc. I know the 49ers have a winning record when Jimmy starts, but his stats show a QB that throws short passes with too many interceptions.
30th in what?

Jimmy is a very good QB in the right system.
 

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