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Idle thoughts - Jimmy G, Cam and Stiddy

2021 Patriots Season:
Upcoming Opponent:
Next Up: vs Dolphins
Pick Results: MIA: 0% at NE: 0%

Sun
Sep 12th

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sb1

Pro Bowl Player
All I know is he was the only guy that actually looked like a quarterback when he played.
Not really he was pretty bad. Was the same guy he was at Auburn who folds under pressure. No thanks we can do a lot better than that.

He’ll be out of the league for good in a few months, like any 4th rounder with his profile.
 

50-yard-line

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Dont know how contracts work. Is it possible we start the year with Cam and the Niners start the season with Jimmy and we make a deal during the season after the rookie QB gets acclimated in SF?
Unless Cam sucks, that wouldn't sit well in the locker room. And before anyone chimes in with the obligatory "Cam sucks," we know you think that, we know you think that, we know you think that.
 

mgteich

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Unless Cam sucks, that wouldn't sit well in the locker room. And before anyone chimes in with the obligatory "Cam sucks," we know you think that, we know you think that, we know you think that.
and if Cam does suck, we all will be pi$$ed that Jimmy didn't start the season.
 

Hyped

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The only point I'll contend above is that our OL has improved. I love Trent Brown, but based on consistency I view him as a slight step down from Thuney. The hope is that year two improvement from Onwenu makes up for that drop off, but I'll need to see it all play out before I'm ready to declare that an improved unit.

Don't forget that we have improved our tight ends whom also do block....
 

Hyped

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I am now onto the Cam+Stiddy+Trask/Mills/Mond bandwagon for 2021.

If the #3 pick is worth three ones and a third, the #4 pick is worth the same....given that we are picking #15 (vs. 12th where the Niners were).....

Forget it, I'd rather offer Seattle or Green Bay those picks and see what they say....they might even bite...

And tip of the cap to the Fish....they moved back from #3 to #6 and still got 2 ones and a three...and they will be taking someone like Chase/PItts...and still have an extra one in 2021 and 2023.... I am happy we got KVN back....
 

PatsFanInVa

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2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Idler thought; I now like N'keal Harry. In a story featuring the "Patriots West" group, including Cam and Stiddy, mind you, N'Keal Harry obviously invoked Hamilton in his tweet, with one word, "WORK!!"

I mean I'm sure he still sucks, but that's a good show.
 

The Boomer

On the Roster
Some morning thoughts on the possibility of JG becoming a Patriot....and sadly why he's probably NOT.

1. While it makes little sense for the Niners to pay so much to get the #3QB prospect, I wonder if it makes a lot of sense to trade him
Here's why. The guy they are going to get will be either Lance or Fields . Both would really benefit from a gap year. So you go to JG and say.

Hey Jimmy, I know its a real blow to your ego to see us draft our QB of a future that your not part of.. But here's the thing son, frankly at this point your injury history makes you damaged goods. That's the reality. But this kid isn't gong to be ready for the 2021 season. So here's what I suggest. I will totally commit to you being the starting QB for the Niners for the 2021 season. We will rework your contract so you will get all your money for the 2021 season and will be able to be a FA for 2022. We have a solid team on both sides of the ball and you can have the kind of season that will rebrand your reputation. Work with the kid and we BOTH win in the end.

I really think that the above conversation is going to happen and how JG responds will greatly affect the possibility of him coming here. He can say

"shove it" but here's what I'll do." I'll rework my contract to lower the cap number, but like Mariotta, I want a no trade clause, so you don't ship me to [email protected] Houston or the like. Then make the best deal you can with this list of 4 teams I'd be willing to go to. (Pats, Boston, Foxboro, and NE) and we;ll call it a day. Better the kid come in with a fresh start and you can work your offense around his talents. Make it happen Lynchie"

OR far more likely he'll say, "that's fair John, it's probably for the best if we do it your way."

2. It seems the word on the street is that Shannahan wants Lance. IF that IS his pick, it makes losing JG for this season is not the best idea. However that being said, he COULD decide that playing the kid right away with a limited offense might be best for his development. IIRC he had Matt Ryan at the beginning of his career and he was a first year starter? This scenario seems a long shot tool.

3. I want you all to remember how we ALL laughed at the mental errors and erratic throws that Josh Allen made his first 2 years in Buffalo. Now it looks like he's going to be a top 5 QB for a lot of years in our division. (IMHO he is what those people enamoured with Lance hopes he can become) Even if JG gets to NE this season,, The Pats are NOT going to have the best QB OR even the 2nd best if Tua improves and Wilson is with the Jets. The AFCLeast is very quickly gong to become the Young Guns division with the Pats looking up at the Bills Jets and Dolphins (at least at the QB position.

But the lesson that should be learned is that ALL QB's take time to develop. Even the results of a couple of years snapshots is not necessarily what the guy will be down the road. Drew Brees had a couple of shaky years in SD even before the shoulder injury. But with the right coach and system he was a star. Brady was a "game manager" his first few years and didn't become a prolific passer until 4 or 5 years into his career.

For that reason, I'll be interested to see how Jared Stidham looks in TC. Granted he had a VERY tough year, both on the field and (reportedly) in the locker room in gaining his teammates trust. Lets see if he does what's necessary to regain that trust and improve his game to another level. Remember he REALLY hasn't had much of chance to show what he can do. Him running that west coast practice was a small start. If he were as bad as we have been led to believe then why has BB chosen to keep him around. That thought alone makes me not just dismiss him as camp fodder even if they draft a QB in the 3rd round.

4. All that being said, I'm starting to think that Cam is going to start the season at QB. I have NO doubt that he will be better this season for a LOT of obvious reasons. 2nd year in the system, a full TC, better skill position players, better OL, better defense. BUT the question is to what DEGREE will be be better. A 100% improvement would make him just an average starting QB. But that STILL twill likely win us a lot of games. But a 100% improvement when the bar was set so low last season is nice, but is it good enough.

So here is what I'd like to see at TC (and hopefully hear before that)' about Cam's progression.

a. He's lost 15-20 lbs. He needs to lighten up LITTERALLY. He was dead legged last season. He lumbered more tha he ran. He has to recognize that as he ages he needs to prepare his body differently than when he was 25. He no longer has to be a 250lb QB who flattens LB's and DB's So I hope to hear he's down to 230 or so and looks a lot quicker and agile. I wouldn't mind hearing that he's been seen down at the TB12 facility.s go

b. That he's throwing the ball with better footwork, rhythm and ACCURACY in TC.

c. That he's making better decisions. Getting the ball out quicker and with a faster release.

As this season progresses we don't necessarily need a "great" QB, we just need a good one. A guy who can move the sticks and manage the game. Whether Cam can make these radical changes from the way he's always played the game to the way he now NEEDS to play the game is huge question. I certainly don't know the answer, but I CANNOT dismiss the possibility that he can.

So assuming I'm right about JG not coming, what to the Pats do to upgrade the QB position long term. Well they draft one, but HOPEFULLY not with the first round pick. Assuming that all 5 guys are gone by the time #15 rolls around, the Pats are going to see the best positional talent that they have seen since they drafted Richard Seymour (take THAT Ron Borges) They will likely have their choice of a top 3 DLman, LB, OLman, snd maybe WR. It would be hard to screw that one up. My personal favorite (at least in March) is Micah Parsons. If he's still there I don't think Bill will be able to pass on him. A fast, powerful, versatile, and dynamic playmaker who you can put anywhere on the field and make an impact. Dare I say Lawrence Taylor-like. :eek:

But getting back to the QB - Guys like Mond and Mills are being talked about a lot. Both have been rated as 3rd round picks by most draft services (and BCG) but given the panic buying we are seeing for the first 5 guys, I think the Pats will have to overpay somewhere in the 2nd round even for what amounts to the runts of the litter. In my fantasy world, the Pats move two of their 4ths and a 2022 3rd for a pick at the end of the 2nd round and get our "QB of the future" Hey its MY fantasy and I don't want to see 10 draftees on a roster that already has 80 or so guys signed. Quality cashould be the watch word and moving up into the 2nd and third rounds should be what we need to do with a lot of those lower picks. I wouldn't hate if we wound up with 5 picks all taken in the first 4 rounds take the 3rd day off.

I'll end this now with my annual plea for football commons sense. Please remember that football is the ULTIMATE team game. It is a game where the SUM is greater than the individual parts. That means you cannot judge a team by how good they are as individuals, but rather how they will play together. And regardless of who is on the roster now, we will not be able to tell what this team will end up being UNTIL probably mid October.

That being said I'm starting to get excited about this group. There will be a LOT of competition for roster spots and playing time. A lot of guys who will be fighting for their very professional life. Cam will be DONE if he isn't the best player he can be.. There will be a huge competition at WR, and back up TE's. A huge competition for snaps at RB. All KINDS of competition at DL, for positions and snaps, as well as LB and DB's especially at the depth positions. The starting OL may be set, but the battle for the other 4 slots will be epic All this competition can only make this team better. The steel becomes strong in the fire.

As fan all I can ask of my team is that they play hard and are competitive in every game, Also in almost every year some player will come out of left field to play key role on this team. I'm sure most of us were very sure at this point 20 years ago that the 2000 season's 4th string QB was going to lead the team to a superbowl championship. (sarcasm) So patience my friends building a football team is a LONG process, and that every season brings a different team into being no matter how many core players return. The chemistry and mindset of the team is different EVERY year. So it is hard to figure out You this team will be based on the past (good or bad) And the bottom line here is that we are VERY early into that process.

OK the sermon is over.
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Amen! You nailed it. The only wrinkle is to keep an eye on what Atlanta does in Round 1. If they pick a QB ahead of the Patriots, Dolla Bill can wait until their pick at 46 or later in the second or third round to take their competing (with Stidham) QB of the future. If Atlanta punts picking Ryan's apprentice in the first round, the Pats might need to trade back from Round 1 or up in Round 2 ahead of the Falcons if they particularly rate Mills, Mond or Trask significantly higher than the other two alternatives. If they are rated fairly evenly, they can wait until the third or even the fourth round to pick their QB. My gut feeling is that Mills should be their target, but what do I know? The professionals should be trusted to judge talent rather than us amateurs. These 3 QBs could be picked anywhere between the Falcons at 35 in Round 2 and the Pats at 96 in Round 3. If the clearly favored QB pick for the Pats makes it to the beginning of Round 4, they might want to trade up to get whoever they project as the best available QB.
 

borg

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2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
1) Niners will want a premium draft pick back to minimize the extreme capital cost to trade up
2) Niners won't want to deal with a potential year long rift between JG and management + new rookie QB
3) This is not at all similar to GB trading for Love last year.

Oh he's coming
See that dust cloud on the horizon
Feel the ground rumbling
Look at the satisfaction on display

1616882561522.png
 

Ivan

Hall of Fame Poster
SF is not forced to cut Jimmy. I think that $25M is a reasonable cost for a 1 year bridge who will keep SF competitive.
IMO, this is also reasonable for the patriots, but we would need to pay a draft pick for the priviledge.

Besides, even if SF knows that they are very likely to cut Jimmy, there is pressure for them to consider any action before the draft. After the draft, they could see if they could get anything for him. They could trade him for 3rd even to someone who was left out of getting a QB in the draft.
I agree with this, if it were the Patriots I would say pick the QB and have the incumbent starter play at least the first year. SF is not under pressure to get rid of him, and if he’s a winner then he would simply take it the same way Brady and Rodgers took, go out and make it clear you are the better QB. I would love to see Garrapolo come to NE despite all of my misgivings about him. The Patriots are a good QB away from being really good, so I’ll take whatever QB can get that done.
 

One-If-By-Sea

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
JG has a no trade clause so Don Yee will hang up as by @Boomer B correctly pointed out. There is no chance JG takes a pay cut. If JG agrees to play for the 9ers in 2021, what could happen?
  1. JG could get hurt, confirm his "made of glass" moniker, and take a dive in FA in 2022
  2. JG could play great for 16 games and increase his value in FA in 2022
  3. The 9ers could replace him half way through the season with the new guy. Owners commonly insist on playing the new franchise QB for the long term franchise value (even if JG is playing well). JG's 2022 FA value plummets.
Did I miss something? With a no-trade clause Yee will never renegotiate JG's contact down. That is a ridiculous suggestion. JG would probably play because he has to, but his cap hit is crippling, and if the rookie is good (did you watch Herbert in 2020) the cap relief would help a team with no 1st round picks soon.

9ers do not believe in JG, BB does. How complicated is that? I am not Don Yee, but @KontradictioN might be.
 

DarrylS

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2019 Weekly Picks Winner
worse than not beating newton out for the starter job, the radio guys said stidham just rolled and did not compete. That is the very worst thing a qb can be.

The problem with your conclusion is the "Radio Guys Said", Sports Talk is long on conspiracy theories and tall tales that create nontroversies.. what we all heard last year was the Stidham was on a good track then he got some sort of hip injury that set him back.. there were no OTA's, TC, or pre season so we really (sports scribes and fans) did not have a good read on what was going.. failing to progress or the so called injury...

How do they know he did not compete?? This year we will, if covid restrictions are lifted, know a lot more..
 

RIpats88

In the Starting Line-Up
JG has a no trade clause so Don Yee will hang up as by @Boomer B correctly pointed out. There is no chance JG takes a pay cut. If JG agrees to play for the 9ers in 2021, what could happen?
  1. JG could get hurt, confirm his "made of glass" moniker, and take a dive in FA in 2022
  2. JG could play great for 16 games and increase his value in FA in 2022
  3. The 9ers could replace him half way through the season with the new guy. Owners commonly insist on playing the new franchise QB for the long term franchise value (even if JG is playing well). JG's 2022 FA value plummets.
Did I miss something? With a no-trade clause Yee will never renegotiate JG's contact down. That is a ridiculous suggestion. JG would probably play because he has to, but his cap hit is crippling, and if the rookie is good (did you watch Herbert in 2020) the cap relief would help a team with no 1st round picks soon.

9ers do not believe in JG, BB does. How complicated is that? I am not Don Yee, but @KontradictioN might be.

Agreed. There's much more risk for Jimmy than benefit here. And #3 is a high probability. Could even happen in camp if the kid looks ready.
 

sturmrider

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I favor the idea of drafting 2 qbs. I like Mills and I'm tossed on Mond or Trask. It will give us some options either way. I think you are right on Jimmy G. Now the hope is that Cam has something left in the tank.
 

VJCPatriot

Pro Bowl Player
1. JG is not gonna want to be a "lame duck" QB in San Francisco. He's going to ask for a trade.
2. Stidham is trash. Word around the team is that nobody 'trusted' him to be the starter. That's why Cam was kept in even when he was struggling with COVID/injuries.
3. Cam should be better in year 2. He will be a full year removed from his injury. He's familiar with the system now. I don't expect him to light the world on fire but he has decent weapons now so he should be at least league average. And the defense will keep games close. I'm expecting 10-12 Wins from the Pats and making the playoffs on a Wildcard.
 

PatsFanInVa

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Deshaun Watson = 5 #1s
This is something to do with his perceived value not some sort of "me too/time's up" thing right? The only thing I could figure was some sort of R Kelly thing, in which case, eh, if it's consensual who cares as long as it's not deuces.
 

PATSYLICIOUS

Pro Bowl Player
Sf would be incredibly lucky if jg doesn’t create drama with what they did and actually goes through with a lame duck season. I can think of at least 3 times qbs have made stinks about FAR less.

-cutler demanded a trade from Denver simply for exploring a trade for cassel which didnt even happen

- ben whined openly over the steelers drafting mason Rudolph, a year after ben had announced he has contemplated retiring no less

- Rodgers relationship with gb seems to have begun deteriorating after they drafted someone to groom last yeae, and rodgers is almost 40

so if these created drama, imagine what a guy who is in the thick of his prime, who one year ago took this team to a sb, will feel when the team spends 3 1st rounders on a qb and essentially tells him theyre gonna dump his ass after he helps them try to win this year and teach the new guy. Has there ever been a similar situation where the placeholder qb simply kept his mouth shut and still gave his all to the team? i can only think of guys in their mid to late 30s who were clearly entering their final years.
 

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