I say Our Game Plan is to RUN on them!

[Patspsycho]

Balance? Counting up til the score was 20-3 (since its pretty stupid to keep throwing with that big a lead) the ratio of pass to run is 36:13. That's as lopsided as it gets, and this was with a lead. Teams usually have that kind of pass-dominated offense when trailing.

Don't kid yourself, the pats running game exists because teams must respect the pass.

Our team hasn't played on Thanksgiving day in a long time, and we just had a game four days ago prior to that. That game was your team's superbowl and you know it- there's no other game where you guys are on the national platform, that's something you need to face up to.

You guys came out with all cylinders firing, we came out very slow and sluggish, but once we got going, we laid the wood on you pretty bad.

 

[Kontradiction]

Congratulations. You almost lost to Shaun hill until Alphonso smith single handedly gave you the game

Balance? Counting up til the score was 20-3 (since its pretty stupid to keep throwing with that big a lead) the ratio of pass to run is 36:13. That's as lopsided as it gets, and this was with a lead. Teams usually have that kind of pass-dominated offense when trailing.

Don't kid yourself, the pats running game exists because teams must respect the pass.

Ausbacker, a three to one pass to run ratio is not balanced. Calling me a child, idiot, or bleacher whatever still makes your point completely wrong.

Look at the drives, the run was used sparingly and only with success after the pass was was established. Take the blinders off, the patriots can not just line up and start running the ball down the throat of the defense to start. If Brady gets the passing game firing then teams will back off to respect the pass and the running game opens up, not the other way around. I don't need t watch every play of every patriot game to differentiate a run from a pass, i don't have down syndrome after all..

By the way, a RB reception out of the backfield is a passing play, not a run.

Is there seriously a LIONS fan trolling on a Pats fans messageboard? Tell me I'm not seeing things...

 

[ausbacker]

Ausbacker, a three to one pass to run ratio is not balanced. Calling me a child, idiot, or bleacher whatever still makes your point completely wrong.

Look at the drives, the run was used sparingly and only with success after the pass was was established. Take the blinders off, the patriots can not just line up and start running the ball down the throat of the defense to start. If Brady gets the passing game firing then teams will back off to respect the pass and the running game opens up, not the other way around. I don't need t watch every play of every patriot game to differentiate a run from a pass, i don't have down syndrome after all..

By the way, a RB reception out of the backfield is a passing play, not a run.

What other games would you like referenced that stipulate the Patriots can run the ball?

01 Bengals 118 @ 5.1
02 Jets 52 @ 2.6
03 Buffalo 200 @ 5.3
04 Miami 119 @ 3.9
05 Bye
06 Ravens 73 @ 5.3
07 Chargers 51 @ 2.3
08 Vikings 122 @ 4.5
09 Browns 68 @ 3.4
10 Steelers 103 @ 4.3
11 Lions 109 @ 4.4

I would deem the Jets, Chargers and Browns as unacceptable rushing performances. That leaves 8/11 performances to an acceptable level to compliment the passing game, the passing game that is clearly the Patriots mantra. Multiply the short passing game with the inclusion of our backs and all of a sudden the ability of our backs to catch passes and rush becomes more important and more impressive.

You must be epically stupid to think a passing play to a RB = a rush. I included that to show you that Brady was utilizing the backs in the passing game and took approximately a 3rd of his yards from scrimmage. It amazes me that some people think teams don't scheme a top 5 QB of all time knowing what he can do with the pass, so much so that they abandon run defense against the Patriots and we still have this ridiculous winning record in a pass first offense that apparently can't run.

Feel free to apologize on your way out as the door smacks you straight in the fanny you obvious troll.

 

[Kontradiction]

Why is everything trolling to patriots fans? A moderator has already checked my post history and said I was kosher.

Very well then...

Congratulations. You almost lost to Shaun hill until Alphonso smith single handedly gave you the game

...is a troll. No matter how you cut it, that's a troll. The team didn't "almost lose" to Shaun Hill. No team that wins by 21 points ever "almost loses" to one single person. Furthermore, when the opposing team's quarterback puts up a perfect passer rating, no single person on your team "single handedly gave them the game".

As for the balanced attack, the numbers have already been posted. The Patriots fell behind by two TD's early in the game. Why would anybody in their right mind expect the run to pass ratio to be balanced? At that point, you're playing catch up and it makes sense to put the ball in the hands of your Hall of Fame quarterback. As has been shown by ausbacker, once the Pats got back into the game, the run to pass ratio was far more balanced than you're making it out to be. Taking the numbers from the game as a whole without considering how the game ended up going down from the get-go is simply poor logic and bad form. Anything else?

 

[RodThePat]

No one here is arguing the Patriots can't run the ball at all. All we are saying is that this team has yet to show they can come out intent on the run first and foremost and succeed. Aside from the Colts game, in which they had success in doing so, they have come out throwing the football first and running later. You have the best QB in the league, why would you plan to run on the Jets especially since they have such a great defensive front?

I'm still waiting for the example of a game in which the gameplan was to run the ball against a good defense and we succeeded.

And one more thing, it's pretty sad to see people resorting to calling other posters "trolls" and whatnot just because they have a dissenting opinion. I don't care if the dude is a Lions fan, he is just making his point in a respectful manner, no need to get your panties in a bunch.

 

[Kontradiction]

The game was close with the Lions leading at points going into the fourth until Smith gave up 3 td. Win by 21, 3 td = 21 points.

Wrong again. The game was tied at 24-all going into the fourth quarter. You guys got shut out in the 4th quarter. And, with the way Brady was throwing, and with our offense able to have balance once again, it was only a matter of time before the Pats took the lead for good... Smith or no Smith. Once again, Brady had a PERFECT PASSER RATING in that game. Are you going to try to make a case that it was ALL Alphonso Smith?

 

[stcjones]

While i think its real important they get 3-4 yards on first down runs, tom brady is the best player on this team..put the ball in his hands

TFB and defense will be keys to winning. NY is tough against the run and I don't see us getting much yards there...Of course, we need to run to mix it up and set up the pass...but our success will come thru the air...Our D will need to play their best game as well....

 

[Kontradiction]

No one here is arguing the Patriots can't run the ball at all. All we are saying is that this team has yet to show they can come out intent on the run first and foremost and succeed. Aside from the Colts game, in which they had success in doing so, they have come out throwing the football first and running later. You have the best QB in the league, why would you plan to run on the Jets especially since they have such a great defensive front?

I'm still waiting for the example of a game in which the gameplan was to run the ball against a good defense and we succeeded.

And one more thing, it's pretty sad to see people resorting to calling other posters "trolls" and whatnot just because they have a dissenting opinion. I don't care if the dude is a Lions fan, he is just making his point in a respectful manner, no need to get your panties in a bunch.

When Brady is playing the way he's been playing over the last 7 game stretch, why would it make sense to come out with the running game first and foremost unless you're going up against a run defense like the Colts have? Our biggest weapon is our quarterback. We paid him $100M. Therefore, the team is a pass first offense. But, with a pass first offense, we've still be remarkably balanced. Especially so after the Moss trade.

 

[stcjones]

While i think its real important they get 3-4 yards on first down runs, tom brady is the best player on this team..put the ball in his hands

TFB and defense will be keys to winning. NY is tough against the run and I don't see us getting much yards there...Of course, we need to run to mix it up and set up the pass...but our success will come thru the air...Our D will need to play their best game as well....

 

[ausbacker]

No one here is arguing the Patriots can't run the ball at all. All we are saying is that this team has yet to show they can come out intent on the run first and foremost and succeed. Aside from the Colts game, in which they had success in doing so, they have come out throwing the football first and running later. You have the best QB in the league, why would you plan to run on the Jets especially since they have such a great defensive front?

I'm still waiting for the example of a game in which the gameplan was to run the ball against a good defense and we succeeded.

And one more thing, it's pretty sad to see people resorting to calling other posters "trolls" and whatnot just because they have a dissenting opinion. I don't care if the dude is a Lions fan, he is just making his point in a respectful manner, no need to get your panties in a bunch.

Perhaps you can go hold his hand and skip through he fields staring at daisies and enjoy the sunset together then?

The Patriots are a pass first offense and have been for some time. You can argue all you want about the use of the run game but when you have a HOF QB and excellent passing game it makes no sense to run first. I have never intimated the Patriots should abandon the pass for the run simply to prove that point. The point is the Patriots can run the football and they can run it well where necessary. That's something you refuse to accept.

The Patriots ran the ball well in 8 of 11 games this season, especially the Vikings and Steelers (TWO RUN STOPPING DEFENSES). There must be a reason BJGE is performing well in RB metrics this season.

As you seem intent on ignoring that statistic be my guest to yourself.

 

[Kid~Brady]

While it will be crucial to get some solid ground yards, this game will be up to TFB and the tight ends IMO. Hernandez and Gronk will need to be our keys in this game. Hernandez will rack yards up as this seems to be the most blatent advantage we have on their defense. I think BJGE and Woodhead have some good plays but not much respectively.

Even though i can't see Cromartie on Welker and having much success, their secondary will be a force against the receivers..... but not the tight ends. Hernandez shredded the middle up last game and will do the same come Monday.

 

[ausbacker]

Funny that you insult my intelligence by bringing up a chart of rush yd averages when I'm referring to BALANCE. Having 1 rush for 50 yards and 300 passes for 250 yards has nothing to do with my argument. It's ok, I did the homework. Here:

Bengals: 35 Pass attempts for 258 yards. 23 rush attempts for 118 yards. (rush = 39.6% playcall, 31% yardage)

Jets: 36 Pass attempts for 248 yards. 20 rush attempts for 52 yards. (rush = 35.7% playcall, 17.3% yardage)

Bills: 27 Pass attempts for 252 yards. 34 rush attempts for 190 yards. (rush = 55.7% playcall, 43% yardage)

Dolphins: 24 Pass attempts for 153 yards. 32 rush attempts for 119 yards. (rush = 57.1% playcall, 43.7% yardage)

Ravens: 44 Pass attempts for 292 yards. 26 rush attempts for 127 yards. (rush = 37.1% playcall, 30.3% yardage)

Chargers: 32 Pass attempts for 159 yards. 22 rush attempts for 51 yards. (rush = 40.7% playcall, 24.3% yardage)

Vikings: 27 Pass attempts for 240 yards. 23 rush attempts for 115 yards. (rush = 46% playcall, 32.4% yardage)

Browns: 36 Pass attempts for 224 yards. 18 rush attempts for 68 yards. (rush = 33.3% playcall, 23.2% yardage)

Steelers: 43 Pass attempts for 350 yards. 24 rush attempts for 103 yards. (rush = 35.8% playcall, 22.4% yardage)

Colts: 25 Pass attempts for 186 yards. 30 rush attempts for 170 yards. (rush = 54.5% playcall, 47.8% yardage)

Lions: 27 Pass attempts for 341 yards. 20 rush attempts for 120 yards. (rush = 42.6% playcall, 26.1% yardage)
_________________________________________________________________

Of all those games listed, the best rush performances have been (imo) the Bills, Dolphins, and Colts game. The Bills have the worst rushing defense in the league, no surprise that the Patriots had success running the ball. The Dolphins game was a statistical anomaly on all fronts with the special teams meltdowns and the wacky scoring on defense. Much of the running came in garbage time. 32 points on 272 yards of offense is a testament to that. The Colts, like the Bills, are poor at stopping the run - ranked 29th in the league. Again, you would expect success running the ball and trying to close out the game before Manning mounted a (unsuccessful) comeback. I'll also give credit for the Vikings game.

Like I've said throughout, the Patriots have a successful rushing attack but it is predicated on Brady getting the offense going. This is a testament to Brady's greatness; being the best player on the team, one would expect the majority of the plays to go through his hands/head. What I've also stressed is that the Patriots can not simply line up and expect to run the ball against a formidable run defense. The team is not built for this, but for some reason people fail to acknowledge this. Grandpa Fred Taylor, backup Ben Jarvus Green Ellis, and 'Rudy' (waiver wire pickup) Woodhead work incredibly well in the Patriots scheme, but do not strike fear in the opposition for their rushing prowess. They don't, I'm sorry.

:bricks:

Why should I care if they instill fear into anyone? The Patriots are 9-2, have scored 23 passing touchdowns, 13 rushing touchdowns, average 5.8 yards per play, average 4.3 rushing yards per play and are doing it with a grandpa, a back up and some Rudy. Thanks for the statistics. They kinda support that the Pats rush between 33% and 57% of the time.... that's called situational football and something Belichick prides himself on.

Tom Brady is a large reason the Patriots are an exceptional outfit season after season. He cannot play 11 positions at once. Teams know this and teams defend against this yet still the Patriots can pass the ball, can rush the ball and can score.

The Patriots are rushing and passing the ball well as a scheme. Continue to ignore that at your own peril.

 

[pdangle]

Jumped in late, so pardon the possible re-hash,

My 2c...

Jets will be worried about the short to intermediate game and at first try to confuse TFB with mostly faux pressure, and drop a DL, or zone a LB to lock down the middler. We might try deep a few times, maybe, which is the wrong move. So save it for later. The Jets want us to prove we can run on them against that strategy, which we will. Either middle or wide.

That will force them back to four or five on the line, THEN TB will pick them apart with the pass.

 

[ausbacker]

Clown... next time just admit that you're wrong. "Oh crap, he made an excellent point. I'll just change the subject and talk about how great the Patriots are."

There is no running scheme pal. The run gets used at opportune times against a tired defense defending against the pass. I admitted the patriots pass offense is good. You don't have to tell me that. The point is that the rushing game that you said was good/great really isn't all that it's made out to be. Hell, there were posts on this forum somewhere saying that lawfirm and woodhead were better than Tomlinson/Greene/Smith. That is just downright lunacy.

Maybe I can make an analogy and help out. If I'm playing football and I know that the guy I'm trying to tackle goes to his right side 80% of the time, I go to that side. But, if he goes left unexpectedly when I guess right, he'll fool me for a big play. It's the same thing with the Patriots. Defenses expect pass but occasionally get fooled by the run. That's why the patriots have a bunch of runs for 15-25 yards mixed with 1-2 yd clunkers. It's not like there is some magical talent or blocking scheme.

If there's no running scheme why are there plays that are run by design and why have you provided evidence to support that the Patriots have run the ball over 40% of the time in 6 of 11 games? Your own statistic supports that the Patriots employ the running game and to some success in conjunction with an excellent passing game.

My God you're slow on the uptake, so much so that you're actually providing statistics to prove my point for me.

 

[Kontradiction]

There is no running scheme pal.

There is, actually. Our offensive system dictates as much. That's why guys like Antowain Smith and Ben-Jarvus Green-Ellis have been able to have success in it. Remind me again, how did our offense do with Smith running the ball in 2001? Was that a running game that instilled fear in anybody?

 

[ausbacker]

You continue to grasp at straws while insulting me. Whatever man.. I don't argue with delusional homers.



You're bringing up 2001.. honestly? Seriously.. 2001? Seriously? SERIOUSLY?!?!?

Delusional... delusional is saying a team that averages over 100 yards rushing per game has no run game. I don't think the Patriots rushing attack is the greatest in the NFL but a compliment to our passing offense. It is good enough and can be counted on to perform if called to do so. It's shredded 2 of the better run defenses this season whilst performing poorly against a few others. Nothing I have presented to you can be argued against either factually or statistically. all that can be offered to counter is opinion based.

Delusional is thinking you're right when your own material contradicts your opinion thus illustrating you for the lurking troll that you are.

 

[Kontradiction]

You're bringing up 2001.. honestly? Seriously.. 2001? Seriously? SERIOUSLY?!?!?

Why wouldn't I? We're running the same system today as we did back then. It would be different if I brought up, say, 1985 as an example. We didn't run the same system. 2001 is very relevant when you're examining both team's running games under the same offensive system.

 

[Kontradiction]

As an aside, mods, if this thread isn't proving that this dude is a bonafied troll who's obviously still very butthurt over the Thanksgiving game, then what does?

 

[fair catch fryar]

You continue to grasp at straws while insulting me. Whatever man.. I don't argue with delusional homers.



You're bringing up 2001.. honestly? Seriously.. 2001? Seriously? SERIOUSLY?!?!?

Who'da thunk it? On the eve of one of the Pats biggest games of the year against their hated rival the Jets....and the biggest troll is a little kitten someone let in. The reason people may seem like "delusional homers" to you is because you've let years of jealousy and hate confuse you. I suggest trying some Buddhist style meditational techniques to help ease the pain and lonliness you must feel after all these years since Barry Sanders left to get a gallon of milk, but never came back.

 

[Kontradiction]

Here we go with the troll bit. You want to see trolling:

Most of the patriots fanbase is a bandwagon jumping, front-runner crew of imbecils that have inferiority complexes. It's either: 'Were the best tom brady is awesome superbowl here we come!!! # 1 power rankings suck it' when the team is doing good or its 'LMFAO OMG talkin smack and they HAVENT EVEN WON ANYTHING IN LIKE 20 YEARS. wat the patriots do?!?! oh yeah dey won 3 superbowls :rocker:'

Look around your forum, people are scattered around the United States. Surely they must have just relocated from Massachusetts and Connecticut to start a family right? Yeah, that's it. Or maybe they picked up a copy of Madden 2005 and watched some superbowls with Ugg-boots wearing Tom Brady. I live in the northeast, NO ONE was a patriots fan before 2000. Only the diehards that could name the patriots starting quarterback before bledsoe, which I bet a fair share of the people here could not do, deserve respect. The rest of you are cowards, too afraid to persevere with a losing team so you join the enemy and reap the benefits.

I try to enlighten you guys but every time I make a coherent (and factual) point it's one of two responses: troll or insult. It's obvious who here is spineless and who actually has a set of cojones. Take off the homer glasses and see the sport for what it is. I can't wait for the Patriots to flame out when Brady's game drops off in 3 yrs time and 70% of the fanbase disappears. Peyton will be done by that time too, who's going to be next? Falcons? We'll find out.

^ THATS TROLLING

Ignoring obvious and correct points in the face of your attempt to belittle the Patriots running attack is not "enlightenment". Calling a guy a clown because he's daring to argue with you is a troll.