Holley's take on DB

[Pats726]

First, he said that he talked to one of the 10 or so people who were in the discussion of the possible deal..between the Pats, Jets, Sehawks...and while the Patriots never mentioned 2 number ones, they did say the Pats talked about two players..Keyshown and Galloway who both went for 2 number ones. (I think that is where they may have been starting..but ninetheless, it was mentioned..) He also said that while Borges was right about Chuyut getting a price on the outside market for Branch, he was wrong talking about this 5th year that he in fact helped DB sign as well as some other points where Chuyut was totally wrong.. SO basically while Borges says he's right, it's REALLY only that he's right about a few things NOT all..and he also mentioned the Borges agenda....
He thinks the best route is to trade him..but he also said whichever way teh grievance comes out..what will follow?? So teh Pats are wrong so Deion is wrong..so what?? Trade and move on...that simple.

 

[PromisedLand]

First, he said that he talked to one of the 10 or so people who were in the discussion of the possible deal..between the Pats, Jets, Sehawks...and while the Patriots never mentioned 2 number ones, they did say the Pats talked about two players..Keyshown and Galloway who both went for 2 number ones. (I think that is where they may have been starting..but ninetheless, it was mentioned..) He also said that while Borges was right about Chuyut getting a price on the outside market for Branch, he was wrong talking about this 5th year that he in fact helped DB sign as well as some other points where Chuyut was totally wrong.. SO basically while Borges says he's right, it's REALLY only that he's right about a few things NOT all..and he also mentioned the Borges agenda....
He thinks the best route is to trade him..but he also said whichever way teh grievance comes out..what will follow?? So teh Pats are wrong so Deion is wrong..so what?? Trade and move on...that simple.

That's my opinion too. Take the best offer on the table and get rid of this disruptive influence.

 

[Pats726]

That's my opinion too. Take the best offer on the table and get rid of this disruptive influence.

Agreed...but again, trade him NOT now..but when a team can get a lot for him...Maybe 2 1s..are too much..but 1 number one?? A two is insulting..especially given how he is under contract.

 

[Bertil]

That's my opinion too. Take the best offer on the table and get rid of this disruptive influence.

...and allow Chayut to "Shoot their way out of town"?

Good precedent. That won't hurt them down the road with Watson, et al.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

To my thinking, referring to the Galloway/KJ deals is as legitimite as the player's camp referring to the Walker deals. Both sides can find examples to bolster their side. Given the player's good but not great production, his upcoming FA but also the fact that he can help the new team now, a low #1 seems right to me. Or a high #2 and decent player from the jesters.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

If they get their offer they may well do that. But this is only disruptive to the fans via the media. Until Deion starts showing up and mouthing off to his coaches and teamates it will not be disruptive to this team. And on a team with this kind of veteran leadership that police's itself that will not fly. They will have their media marching orders (we only talk about the guys who are here with us, love Deion (but the other side of it's a business is) but this team will move on to take care of our business...).

Deion holding out to week 10 is like getting your #1 WR back off the PUP for the stretch run. And unless he wants to really alienate his teamates and more seriously damage his reputation he will be looking to make a statement in those last 6 regular season and especially post season games. If we are cruising along heading into the bye he may be back sooner lest that continued success in his absence substantially devalues his future FA market value. He cannot afford to have the Brady factor underscored. If we are struggling he becomes the selfish jerk who jeopardized everybody's season (including 3 other players in their contract seasons). And having secured a draft pick or picks for him sooner rather than later will not alter that because 2007 draft picks can't play now.

 

[1976pats]

If Holley or anybody else thinks the DB situation is "disruptive" to the Pats as they prepare for the Bills, they're nuts. Sad to say the Pats have to play hardball here right down the line or they'll be faced with 1 or 2 of these situations every year.

 

[PonyExpress]

Chayut and DB have no leg to stand on in this hearing and their threat to sit out till week 10 is empty, costing Deion his entire salary for the year and forcing him to play weeks 10-17 for free. I wouldn't be surprised if he suits up on Sunday, and even signs the Pats offer by then once he gets slammed in this hearing.

 

[pats60]

If you trade him now than Branch wins and other players will see
this as a way out of here. Let him sit and brew about this .His value
will go down big time not playing.

 

[Sundayjack]

Or a high #2 and decent player from the jesters.

If a Jets-Patriots deal is to happen, I'd think that would be the ballpark. Frankly, I'm not all that enthralled with giving that up for Deion Branch in trade. What we offered (so the rumor goes) is the lower of our two second round picks. It shouldn't suprise anyone, and it wouldn't have surprised the Jets, that for a intra-divisional trade, the higher of the two seconds was the correct starting point. That's also why I'm not interested in the trade.

 

[Pats726]

But do you want his value to go down?? Don't u wish o get mpre for him??? Not sure what the end game is..I want to see Branch rot..really..let him get paid ZERO for those 10 games...see what he thinks feels..as he watches and no one does NOTHING!!!

 

[lobster]

Very outstanding job by Holley to get an inside source in the negotiations. That is what senior sports reporters are paid to do - develop inside sources and get those inside stories, as well as good sports writing.

Borges notably has totally failed to develop inside sources at the Patriots and that's probably why he has an "agenda" against the Pat's.

 

[DarrylS]

Trading him is a very good strategy, going to arbitration and running the risk of someone else tellling you what to do is not a good choice. I have still not seen anything that indicates what part of the CBA they are grieving, this agreement between the Pats and Chayut is not part of the Collective Bargaining Agreement... it is something outside of it. Branch is still under contract and as far as I can see the CBA has not been violated, Branch has essentially broken his end of the deal.

 

[Hoodie]

Holley also kept saying that the Pats misjudged the market for Deion and their agreement to allow Deion to seek a trade has blown up in their face.

I thought that the Jets and Seahawks offers were essentially the same as the Pats offer with the exception that the Pats want Deion to play this year under his current contract.

I've seen a bunch of different numbers. Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Holley also kept saying that the Pats misjudged the market for Deion and their agreement to allow Deion to seek a trade has blown up in their face.

I thought that the Jets and Seahawks offers were essentially the same as the Pats offer with the exception that the Pats want Deion to play this year under his current contract.

I've seen a bunch of different numbers. Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

Take a look at hwc's remarks immediately after this post...it might help.
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showpost.php?p=177988&postcount=35

EDIT: Whoops, this just takes you to my post, you have to click the thread link in the upper right hand corner to see all, but to save you time, here's hwc's post:
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showpost.php?p=178023&postcount=36

 

[lobster]

Holley also kept saying that the Pats misjudged the market for Deion and their agreement to allow Deion to seek a trade has blown up in their face.

Someone posted the Jets and Seahawks offered new contracts where the Pat's offered an extension. A new contract would pay Branch much more than the $500K or so Branch was to earn this year from the Pat's - that's after fines.

 

[Sundayjack]

I have still not seen anything that indicates what part of the CBA they are grieving, this agreement between the Pats and Chayut is not part of the Collective Bargaining Agreement... it is something outside of it. Branch is still under contract and as far as I can see the CBA has not been violated, Branch has essentially broken his end of the deal.

I think that's a great point, and I said something similar a day or so ago. What entitles them to arbitration? The CBA allows arbitration for issues involving the CBA, Player Contract, or League Constitution or By-Laws. My guess at what they're saying is that this was an oral amendment to Branch's Player Contract - otherwise, you're right - how do you get into that forum?

It could be that, wrestling with this question, they came up with the special master case, where they're arguing that the Patriots breached their CBA obligation to "negotiate in good faith." It could be that the second forum is just in case they had no CBA right to the first. Still, not sure why that deserves its own separate.

Interesting, anyway.

 

[Hoodie]

Thanks Box and Lobster. What this says to me is that this is no longer about the money, it's become a pissing contest between Branch and Chayut and the Pats. Branch is the one who stands to lose. Would he seriously prefer a few dollars more to catch passes from Pennington or Hasselbeck? Pennington will get him killed.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Holley also kept saying that the Pats misjudged the market for Deion and their agreement to allow Deion to seek a trade has blown up in their face.

I thought that the Jets and Seahawks offers were essentially the same as the Pats offer with the exception that the Pats want Deion to play this year under his current contract.

I've seen a bunch of different numbers. Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

The longer offer from the Patriots is reported to be 31 million over 5 years with 8 million gauranteed. The Jets/Hawks offer is reported to be in the 36 to 39 million range for 6 years with 13 million guaranteed (it is said the other deal can get him more over the first 3 years too which is really the most important part). Taking the average of the supposed 36 to 39 million range, let's say 37.5 million over 6 years. Pats offer = 6.2 mill per year, Jets/Hawks offer 6.3 mill per year. So the yearly thing is pretty close except for this, the Patriots want this year to still count. So it is actually a 6 year deal at 32 million Team Branch will contend. Also, Team Branch wants the higher guaranteed money. The Patriots have also come back with 3 years at 19 million. The stopping point, Team Branch contends, is that first year thing again. I assume the Patriots insistance on that year is what caused Team Branch to not participate in the offer/counter offer thing. I hope that helps.

 

[Clonamery]

Thanks Box and Lobster. What this says to me is that this is no longer about the money, it's become a pissing contest between Branch and Chayut and the Pats. Branch is the one who stands to lose. Would he seriously prefer a few dollars more to catch passes from Pennington or Hasselbeck? Pennington will get him killed.

It's about the $$ not about who's throwing him the $$.