Have we overrated the Patriots defense more specifically the front 7?

[JCCHASE]

Has anyone watched Hightower on the Pats vs. Phins week 1 highlight film? Sheesh, he looks like he's playing with cement shoes on. I hope it's him getting back in game shape but the front 7 is looking far from impressive at this point and also slow. Barmore even during double teams was most times collapsing the pocket. Uche looks like he has the speed of a safety flying around out there. Van Noy looked a bit hesitant. Bentley out of position on some plays being in the exact area as another LB. Judon came as advertised...looks great. Wise, Godchaux, Guy and the rest were getting absolutely ZERO push on short yardage runs losing their 1 on 1 matchups. Do you think the defense is way overhyped? Label me unimpressed so far. How many pressures did the defense create vs. Tua? Chime in please.

I'm expecting to see a big improvement against the Jets, but not where they need to be to compete against the better teams in the league.

 

[Deus Irae]

The numbers support the exact opposite of failure.
17 points allowed
259 total yards
3.2 yards per carry
4-11 on third down
23:17 TOP
Tua - 16-27 202 1/1 79.2
They also had a key turnover to set up the offense with great field position to win the game at the end.

No, they don't, as has been pointed out about a million times. I've shown the failures. Others have shown the failures. The failures are obvious to anyone who's not being willfully blind.


What is it with so many of you that you can't just accept the simply reality that the defense failed in a game?

 

[TheRainMaker]

It looked like a Matt Patricia D more than anything...I wonder if he was in charge of the defensive game planning.

Yep, my biggest fear of him returning.

 

[ashley]

I think we at least would have won on Sunday if that were true. I believe TB will repeat and not only because of Brady and the offense. Their defense too. It's elite when healthy especially against the run. I don't think the TB defense would have been schooled on the opening drive of each half like we were on Sunday

Oh well stuff happens. I still like our defense this year - not quite as much as I would if Gilmore was back and healthy but we're good I think. We weren't last season.

Yes I know your question was tongue in cheek I always liked watching great teams and great players play when I don't have a rooting interest and I still enjoy watching the GOAT do his thing. The Tampa Bay Bucs couldn't be more irrelevant as a franchise and a team to the Patriots. So it's not like I'd have any reason to not hope Brady does well other than the obvious, like this year's game. If he was a Steeler or a Jet or a Colt that would be different. lol

You're a good sport SB, you know I like to mess around with you.

 

[ashley]

No, they don't, as has been pointed out about a million times. I've shown the failures. Others have shown the failures. The failures are obvious to anyone who's not being willfully blind.


What is it with so many of you that you can't just accept the simply reality that the defense failed in a game?

I think the turnovers also failed us...let's be honest, if Harris doesn't fumble, we probably win the game and nobody is talking about the defense.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think the turnovers also failed us...let's be honest, if Harris doesn't fumble, we probably win the game and nobody is talking about the defense.

The turnovers absolutely did. Regardless of everything else that happened, just Harris hanging onto the ball puts the Patriots in position to take the lead with little to no time left in the game.

 

[captain stone]

I thought the signing/re-signing of Godsmack, Hank Anderson & Dee Wise were all overpays, if not significant overpays... Bill should've figured out a way to receive a bigger bank for Bob's bucks there;

Lawrence Guy has done the uniform proud, but his best days might already be in the past;

And I wonder if Bill will seek an Upgrayedd for the role Carl Davis currently occupies...

 

[venecol]

The numbers support the exact opposite of failure.
17 points allowed
259 total yards
3.2 yards per carry
4-11 on third down
23:17 TOP
Tua - 16-27 202 1/1 79.2
They also had a key turnover to set up the offense with great field position to win the game at the end.

MIA was 2-2 in RZ
NEP was 1-4 in RZ

That's the difference. MIA was more efficient. The rest of the stats don't really mean much when MIA was able to hold Pats to 3 FGs.

 

[JMC00]

I have no confidence the defense would have stopped Miami on its next possession without the fumble. Certainly not if Miami only needed a field goal.

Despite the some good numbers the defense did not do that or enough from an actual game perspective

It's funny how you act like the defense didn't do that, because they literally did twice. Just hilarious for you to sit there and say you had no confidence that the defense could stop them when the defense literally stopped them twice the 2 drives before to put the offense in position to win it





Meyers catches that wide open 1st down and Harris doesn't fumble and that's a Pats win. Funny how 2 offensive miscues (and there was more than that) switches the narrative to "defense was bad"

Hell even with those 2 miscues, if the refs didn't call a phantom hold call on Harris' TD run that's a 20-17 Pats win.

 

[venecol]

Honestly, it looked like MIA played more like the Pats, coming out and scoring a TD on the opening drive and scoring at end of half. Then coming out of the half and scoring another TD. Then forcing a fumble on the Pats last, possibly game winning drive.

The Pats couldn't stop MIA from scoring in the RZ and put the ball on the ground four (4) times! They also had a ton of penalties. It was sloppy and unfortunately didn't allow Mac to get his first win because the game was definitely winnable.

Here's to Bill busting balls this week to get them to clean up this stuff. Play JJ, bench Heron, and for the love of god, use your monster TEs in the RZ. Let Mac fling the rock.

 

[zydecochris]

New season. One game. Different lineup. But don't let that stop you from taking comfort in your usual knee-jerk negativity.

Specifically, the entire starting LB unit is new (or returned) and half of the defensive line is new. Given the new rules limiting padded practices, it isn't surprising to me that they haven't meshed yet, they have to play as a it team after all.

 

[venecol]

Specifically, the entire starting LB unit is new (or returned) and half of the defensive line is new. Given the new rules limiting padded practices, it isn't surprising to me that they haven't meshed yet, they have to play as a it team after all.

Yup. That's why we always laughed at teams that won the preseason/ offseason. It was a little embarrassing to see all these claims of being top this and top 5 that during the preseason. Communication, coordination, timing all take time to develop. In addition, we really don't know how many of the "new" guys may just simply suck.

 

[amfootball]

Honestly, it looked like MIA played more like the Pats,.

THIS.

 

[amfootball]

Yup. That's why we always laughed at teams that won the preseason/ offseason. It was a little embarrassing to see all these claims of being top this and top 5 that during the preseason. Communication, coordination, timing all take time to develop. In addition, we really don't know how many of the "new" guys may just simply suck.

Bert Breer talked about this today on Toucher and Rich. He called it the Brady hangover effect. LOL He said we just assume whatever Bill does, it will just work in our favor because it always did in the past with Brady. He specifically talked about how Pats fans will say that the first 4 weeks of the season is just an extension of the preseason as Bill figures out the team he has and everyone gels. Well, we don't have that luxury anymore. We can't be 2-4 or 3-5 and expect to make the playoffs just because. Those days are over. We are the same as every other team now. These early games, winning them is paramount. I agree it is difficult with so many new pieces which is why our team building approach this year was so surprising because we did a spending spree to try to rebuild on the fly. I don't disagree with that by the way because we had the money to do so but expecting the same success we had in the past is probably fools gold. If half of these FAs actually pan out then we will have done well.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Bert Breer talked about this today on Toucher and Rich. He called it the Brady hangover effect. LOL He said we just assume whatever Bill does, it will just work in our favor because it always did in the past with Brady. He specifically talked about how Pats fans will say that the first 4 weeks of the season is just an extension of the preseason as Bill figures out the team he has and everyone gels. Well, we don't have that luxury anymore. We can't be 2-4 or 3-5 and expect to make the playoffs just because. Those days are over. We are the same as every other team now. These early games, winning them is paramount. I agree it is difficult with so many new pieces which is why our team building approach this year was so surprising because we did a spending spree to try to rebuild on the fly. I don't disagree with that by the way because we had the money to do so but expecting the same success we had in the past is probably fools gold. If half of these FAs actually pan out then we will have done well.

whether it was ernie adams or brady, not the case anymore. Pats don't go on a run in Nov / December anymore. 2019 got worse over time. on a downward path with this oc and no brady to bail it out

 

[zydecochris]

A question for those sharp eyes posters that look carefully at film after the game:

How did Barmore look on run plays?

To my eyes he seemed to do decent rushing the QB on passing downs (not entirely unexpected considering what an effective designated pass rusher he was at Alabama), but my eyes aren't really sharp enough to see if he got exposed in the run game any.

He will be a valuable addition this year even if his role is solely a designated pass rusher, but I've hoped that at some point (either later this year or in future years) he will become effective at playing the run also.

 

[venecol]

whether it was ernie adams or brady, not the case anymore. Pats don't go on a run in Nov / December anymore. 2019 got worse over time. on a downward path with this oc and no brady to bail it out

Talking about Nov/Dec, does anyone know how Mac plays in cold weather games? Four of the last 5 games will be in northern cold weather cities.

@SouthernPatriot any input?

 

[Bradybranch]

No, they don't, as has been pointed out about a million times. I've shown the failures. Others have shown the failures. The failures are obvious to anyone who's not being willfully blind.


What is it with so many of you that you can't just accept the simply reality that the defense failed in a game?

You have not done anything but mention a couple scoring drives, as if a D that doesn't shutout the other team is a failure, which is false. If this defense is bad, what does that say about the rest of the league? Your POV is clearly warped.

 

[zydecochris]

Talking about Nov/Dec, does anyone know how Mac plays in cold weather games? Four of the last 5 games will be in northern cold weather cities.

@SouthernPatriot any input?

I believe that SouthernPatriot has two kids attending UA, so she and/or her kids probably attend games in person, so she would be the expert.

I have not attended any of the games in person, but I watched all of the UA games that Mac has played in. I am not aware of any of those being played in cold weather cities. As a member of the Southeast Conference, as one would expect the conference games are in the Southeast. The National Championship game against Ohio State was played in Florida and the semi-championship against Notre Dame was at the Rose Bowl in Pasadena.

For the last few games in the 2019 season that Mac started after Tua went out I looked at the location of those games and none of those were in cold weather cities either.

 

[Deus Irae]

You have not done anything but mention a couple scoring drives, as if a D that doesn't shutout the other team is a failure, which is false. If this defense is bad, what does that say about the rest of the league? Your POV is clearly warped.

First, I've done a lot more than that. Second, I'm not the only one who's made points about the defense. You're white knighting when it's not needed, and ignoring all sorts of responses to it rather than acknowledging the obvious. "Tua sucks!" was the claim for most of the week prior to the game, yet the Patriots defense went 0-for-4 in the first/last drives against him, including the complete failure on the last drive of the game.


Just take the "L" and walk away. It's one game.