Have we overrated the Patriots defense more specifically the front 7?

[amfootball]

I dunno if anyone is super guilty of overestimating, in fact a lot of us were cautious entering a season without Gilmore. The defense is truly another level with him. His effect can cover up woes on the front 7 to an extent. Also, as has become a league-wide narrative, the lack of preseason reps is really hard to overcome in terms of conditioning - and the defense is affected most by that.

I still see the hope, this defense could be very good. Not lights out every game, but a lot of defensive woes over the past two seasons can really be attributed to the lackluster offense. If we had even a typical Brady offense with some decent skill players, they'd be relied on way less, they'd play less snaps, be more rested for each game, etc.

The Dolphins are a hard team. They may not have all the W's, but they certainly are always a threat with intimate knowledge as to how the Patriots play, plan, and execute. BB proteges have a history of doing well against him, or at least maintaining competition. And it makes sense. We were one of McDaniel's few W's. One of Patricia's few W's. I think any dismissal of our defense after one game where they held a team to 17 pts and the offense fumbled away the W is overreaction.

And again, the effect of Gilmore is big. Pushing Jones into the CB2 position has him in overly favorable matchups. It solidifies the secondary, which creates time for the front 7.

Also, I think of years like 2010 and am like "this defense would have been able to keep that team nearly unbeatable."

I'll never forget the days of being more scared of 3rd and long than 3rd and shorts.

It is completely absurd in a year where we spent $150 mil in guaranteed money on FAs, that we are letting our best defensive player sit over literally a few million bucks. This IMO is just another example of how Bill's team building philosophy has become a liability.

 

[amfootball]

I am not saying the Pats will get close to the 2003 or 2014 levels, but don't forget that in the opening game those years the defense played like crap and the Pats lost the game. Hell, in 2014 the Pats gave up 191 yards on the ground in the opener (the Pats ended up being 9th best against the run that year by the time the season ended). And of course the 2003 defense became the best defense in Patriots' history and one of the 10-20 best defenses in NFL history. Both teams won the Super Bowl.

The point is stop using the first game of the season to judge the defense or any other part of the team for what it is and will be for the rest of the season. The first week of the season is an anomaly. Virtually every year you see a team that ends up going deep into the playoffs play like crap (Tampa last year) and a team that goes sub .500 look great (the Jags beat the Colts week one with Minshew throwing for 3 TDs).

I agree overall but all we have at this point is one game to go on so it will get discussed and conclusions will be drawn fair or unfair.

 

[amfootball]

The 2014 defense ranked 12th by DVOA and 15th by EPA/Play allowed, they weren't an elite unit in the regular season and certainly weren't one in the playoffs, Colts game aside. I think this defense can play close to that level.

The 2014 D was not good. We got a declining Revis and we were not great vs the run either. They were particularly bad in the postseason vs the Ravens where Revis had one of his worst games and also in the SB until Butler came and literally saved the day after Brady brought the team back from a 10 point deficit.

 

[MrTibbs]

So if the Patriots struggle again vs. the Jets tomorrow do we sound the alarm? I understand division games are typically close but for the difference in talent on each roster the Patriots should coast to a W in my opinion. Anything less and or a loss then I'm absolutely more concerned.

 

[‘Mondre]

Secondary should be addressed....

 

[RIpats88]

It is completely absurd in a year where we spent $150 mil in guaranteed money on FAs, that we are letting our best defensive player sit over literally a few million bucks. This IMO is just another example of how Bill's team building philosophy has become a liability.

yeah the Gilmore situation doesnt make much sense. now I do think he has lost a step and is on the wrong side of 30 to demand the money he wants (no other team will give it to him). but he's your best defensive player and you have no one to take his place. Its a shame we will go into the Bucs-Patriots game without Gilmore to put on one of their receivers.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

The 2014 defense ranked 12th by DVOA and 15th by EPA/Play allowed, they weren't an elite unit in the regular season and certainly weren't one in the playoffs, Colts game aside. I think this defense can play close to that level.

It was actually very good with Revis. Pats need an elite CB1 to go far.

.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

It is completely absurd in a year where we spent $150 mil in guaranteed money on FAs, that we are letting our best defensive player sit over literally a few million bucks. This IMO is just another example of how Bill's team building philosophy has become a liability.

Gilmore is at Gillette and all of the reports say he is willingly contributing. He is also injured. Until he recovers there is no reason to pay him extra, no other team will take on his contract or sign him until he is back to full strength. That is the unfortunate issue with being a professional athlete, you have to be healthy to play. After Gilmore is cleared to play, we will see if BB pays him or not.

 

[n6249c]

It was actually very good with Revis. Pats need an elite CB1 to go far.

.

Pats may still be in need of an elite CB1 after Gilmore returns. He’s on the wrong side of thirty and hasn’t played since a serious season-ending injury last year. So there’s no reason to assume he will still be an elite CB1.

 

[borg]

Gilmore is at Gillette and all of the reports say he is willingly contributing.

What does that mean?......Clapping from the back fields while those that honor their contracts practice this week's game plan?

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Gilmore is not healthy enough to play,

when gilmore is healthy and can show bb that he has not lost a step, I think the mediots have said they all think something will get worked out!

 

[mgteich]

Pats may still be in need of an elite CB1 after Gilmore returns. He’s on the wrong side of thirty and hasn’t played since a serious season-ending injury last year. So there’s no reason to assume he will still be an elite CB1.

So, you don't think that the 2021 Gilmore will be a better option over Mills?

 

[mgteich]

Gilmore is not healthy enough to play,

when gilmore is healthy and can show bb that he has not lost a step, I think the mediots have said they all think something will get worked out!

And, if he has lost a step, they MIGHT give him a couple of million extra for this year, and let him go after the season. The bottom line is that the patriots need another solid corner for the rest of the season.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

What does that mean?......Clapping from the back fields while those that honor their contracts practice this week's game plan?

Gilmore was reported to be in all of the secondary meetings, positive, helpful, and was referred to as an "assistant coach" or "teaching coach" or something like that. Maybe you missed it. I have no idea what Gillmore expects, but he understands that as a professional athlete no-one is going to pay a bonus or extend a new contract if he can not prove he is healthy. Only people on PatsFans seem confused.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

And, if he has lost a step, they MIGHT give him a couple of million extra for this year, and let him go after the season. The bottom line is that the patriots need another solid corner for the rest of the season.

I doubt anyone spends a few million extra for someone who has lost a step - see JMac. Agreed that we need a CB this year and next.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

And, if he has lost a step, they MIGHT give him a couple of million extra for this year, and let him go after the season. The bottom line is that the patriots need another solid corner for the rest of the season.

let’s not make Gilmore into something he is not.

2019 Gilmore was amazing.

2020 Gilmore was barely better than average.

At his best, Gilmore is a great press man corner corner that allows the rest of the defense to play combo zone, where Jackson excels. Gilmore, the great press man corner is the guy we desperately need bac

 

[mgteich]

let’s not make Gilmore into something he is not.

2019 Gilmore was amazing.

2020 Gilmore was barely better than average.

At his best, Gilmore is a great press man corner corner that allows the rest of the defense to play combo zone, where Jackson excels. Gilmore, the great press man corner is the guy we desperately need bac

We are talking about 2021. Is the better than Mills as a starter? Is he better than Wade as a backup?

Presuming a healthy Gilmore, there is exactly zero question as to whether the team is better with Wade active or with Gilmore active.

 

[mgteich]

I doubt anyone spends a few million extra for someone who has lost a step - see JMac. Agreed that we need a CB this year and next.

I strongly disagree with your assessment. You wouldn't pay a couple of million extra to have Gilmore for the rest of season. I would

 

[mgteich]

I doubt anyone spends a few million extra for someone who has lost a step - see JMac. Agreed that we need a CB this year and next.

???

Do you really think that Bill wouldn't rather have JMac than Wade?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

???

Do you really think that Bill wouldn't rather have JMac than Wade?

No. Why do you ask?