Have we overrated the Patriots defense more specifically the front 7?

[50-yard-line]

More HAWT takes: yeah, but Tua SUCKS!!!!!!

No he doesn't. He's certainly not elite - not yet, and I doubt ever - but he's a decent middling QB in what, his 11th game? Devante Parker is a great WR. Waddle looks like he might be very good (no surprise); Gesiki is a very good TE. The Dophins offense is not very good, however. Still, they averages 25.3 ppg last year, and should be better this year. Giving up 17 without Gilmore, with new players, with 2 turnovers, is acceptable - and they certainly didn't run up and down the field on the Pats. When you get 36+ minutes of ToP and lose, well...

Pats lost that game mostly, for the same reason they keep losing close games: they aren't aggressive at all in the red zone. I'll give them this one - rookie QB in his 1st game, lights-out ball-hawking Miami CBs...

But this is the problem. The penalties were back-breakers, but the pattern's been there for more than a score of games now.

You need TDs in the NFL.

 

[Deus Irae]

People are making it sound like the defense got run off the field last weekend and lost 55-10 or something. With the exception of the two half starting drives that simply isn't the case and the overall numbers support that view.

The Dolphins had 8 drives. They scored on 3 of them, and ran out the clock on another. In other words, the Dolphins offense won on every first/last drive in the game, which was half of their drives overall. And they did this with a struggling offensive line, and a QB who's sort of a hybrid rookie/year2 guy.


The numbers support the reality that the defense failed.

 

[sb1]

The defense reminded me of last year's defense and not in a good way. That wasn't a fluke last year that was their true talent level. They are better than that this year. Either way they better be a lot better than what we saw on Sunday quickly - otherwise it could be a historic curb stomping in week 4 that will go down in the history books.

 

[IllegalContact]

5 new starters on defense and 6 starters / playing new positions on offense

need to figure out the difference between the first drive of each half and the rest of the drives in the game.......

and stupid-***ed penalties

 

[hornetfb85]

1 Game.....

 

[condon84]

They looked a lot faster in the pre-season. I know Donta said they have to play faster so it may be just them not reacting quick enough to what the offense was doing because it's the first game and first time they've implemented a gameplan. I think we have the talent up front to be really good especially with out LB core. Giving up 17 pts and less than 300 total yards is a good day for the D, but it was disappointing how they couldn't stop them when they really needed to.

 

[condon84]

Anyone who wants to say “but they only gave up 17 points they were good!” should shut up and look back at the two Giants Super Bowls. Points allowed is not the be all end all metric. Hell wasn’t the 2011 defense top 10 in points allowed despite it being historically garbage?

While I generally agree with that sentiment, they only gave up 259 yards. If they average that yardage per game that would be historical.

 

[doesntmatter1]

Baramore, Judon, and Uche looked legit. Everyone else is suspect. I have spent almost two years hating on Wise and Bentley so my expectations weren't that high for the unit to begin with. I still think we are good enough but I was a little concerned with Hightower. Hightower is an impact player but he was average at best against the Dolphins.

 

[Deus Irae]

Hightower is an impact player but he was average at best against the Dolphins.

Hightower seems to be of the same mind:

Hightower was credited with four tackles in a 17-16 loss and said on Thursday that he feels things are still “coming along” after his extended absence from the lineup.

“Win or loss, I always look for room for improvement, and that’s obviously there. I pride myself on being, not the smartest guy, but definitely I want to push up my awareness as far as situational awareness goes,” Hightower said, via Andrew Callahan of the Boston Herald. “But just all around, I just want to play better, obviously. It’s coming along, but obviously I want to play a lot better, be a little bit more impactful.”

Dont'a Hightower wants to be "a little bit more impactful" than he was in return to Patriots lineup - ProFootballTalk

 

[Uptown]

Guys, Hightower hasn’t played a meaningful snap of football in two years…context is king. Also, besides Judon, Uche & Barmore…Phillips also looked very good. He doesn’t get enough mention for his dirty work. Solid player.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Rodney Harrison 'stunned' by Patriots' 'average' front seven vs. Dolphins

“I was just really stunned by the Patriots’ front seven.”

patriotswire.usatoday.com

Yep, I was disappointed in how they didn’t do enough to frustrate Tua.

 

[ashley]

Not sure if this was posted but don't forget, this defense has a lot of new starters on it, going to take a while for it to come together, I would expect us to keep getting better each week. Once Gilmore comes back, watch out!!!!

 

[TheRainMaker]

Phillips also looked very good. He doesn’t get enough mention for his dirty work. Solid player.

Yep, great pick up.

 

[ashley]

The defense reminded me of last year's defense and not in a good way. That wasn't a fluke last year that was their true talent level. They are better than that this year. Either way they better be a lot better than what we saw on Sunday quickly - otherwise it could be a historic curb stomping in week 4 that will go down in the history books.

SB, if we had Tampa's defense we would win it all this year? Whatcha think?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Yep, I was disappointed in how they didn’t do enough to frustrate Tua.

It looked like a Matt Patricia D more than anything...I wonder if he was in charge of the defensive game planning.

 

[Deus Irae]

Guys, Hightower hasn’t played a meaningful snap of football in two years…context is king. Also, besides Judon, Uche & Barmore…Phillips also looked very good. He doesn’t get enough mention for his dirty work. Solid player.

Exactly what context do you think has been missed there?

 

[Bradybranch]

The Dolphins had 8 drives. They scored on 3 of them, and ran out the clock on another. In other words, the Dolphins offense won on every first/last drive in the game, which was half of their drives overall. And they did this with a struggling offensive line, and a QB who's sort of a hybrid rookie/year2 guy.


The numbers support the reality that the defense failed.

The numbers support the exact opposite of failure.
17 points allowed
259 total yards
3.2 yards per carry
4-11 on third down
23:17 TOP
Tua - 16-27 202 1/1 79.2
They also had a key turnover to set up the offense with great field position to win the game at the end.

 

[sb1]

SB, if we had Tampa's defense we would win it all this year? Whatcha think?

I think we at least would have won on Sunday if that were true. I believe TB will repeat and not only because of Brady and the offense. Their defense too. It's elite when healthy especially against the run. I don't think the TB defense would have been schooled on the opening drive of each half like we were on Sunday

Oh well stuff happens. I still like our defense this year - not quite as much as I would if Gilmore was back and healthy but we're good I think. We weren't last season.

Yes I know your question was tongue in cheek I always liked watching great teams and great players play when I don't have a rooting interest and I still enjoy watching the GOAT do his thing. The Tampa Bay Bucs couldn't be more irrelevant as a franchise and a team to the Patriots. So it's not like I'd have any reason to not hope Brady does well other than the obvious, like this year's game. If he was a Steeler or a Jet or a Colt that would be different. lol

 

[Family]

The numbers support the exact opposite of failure.
17 points allowed
259 total yards
3.2 yards per carry
4-11 on third down
23:17 TOP
Tua - 16-27 202 1/1 79.2
They also had a key turnover to set up the offense with great field position to win the game at the end.

C'mon sports aren't judged by numbers. The last three minutes, and whatever (when the offense needed another chance) was one of the most horrific performances I've ever seen. Which was the problem last year. First and 14 from the five.

Yeah they can work this out, but with the game on the line there is no question they were a failure. And I know they created a turnover that the offense messed up, but Harris made a mistake, while the front 7 got pushed literally down the field with the game on the line.

Based on the last three minutes I have no confidence the defense would have stopped Miami on its next possession without the fumble. Certainly not if Miami only needed a field goal.

Judging a defense is whether you have confidence that they can make the stop when you need it for a win. Isn't that true of all everything sports? Despite the some good numbers the defense did not do that or enough from an actual game perspective (I won't go into other good points Deus and others have made) to consider this anything but a failure.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Hightower has gotten off to slow starts before. He’s notorious for this.

At the same time, he’s 31. Gilmore is almost 31. McCourty is 34. If you’re dismissing the age-factor for key positions on defense, get your head out of the sand. This is why the off-season additions aren’t just stacking players to an already existing unit. They need to also replace high levels of production for inevitable age/performance related downgrades.

Not really the same on offense, although it’s notable how the loss of Thuney is minimized while the addition of Brown is so hyped up. They lost an all-pro guard. That matters.