Harry & Metcalf workout together (?)

[PatsBoy12]

DK Metcalf has Russell Wilson throwing to him.

Our weapons have who?

How did Randy Moss look on the Raiders in 2006, what did he do the following season?

Our weapons had Tom Brady throwing to them last season. It's essentially the same receivers this season. Am I missing something?

 

[1960Pats]

Our weapons had Tom Brady throwing to them last season. It's essentially the same receivers this season. Am I missing something?

He's making the same point as you.

 

[PatsBoy12]

He's making the same point as you.

I guess I was missing something!

 

[Jangles]

DK Metcalf has Russell Wilson throwing to him.

Our weapons have who?

How did Randy Moss look on the Raiders in 2006, what did he do the following season?

Our weapons?

the closest thing the pats have to a weapon is those dudes in the end zone with the muskets

last year Harry had Tom Brady throwing to him and he was still trash.

 

[catent]

Gotta love a fanbase that calls a 22 year old kid (whose played 13 games in the NFL), "trash".

Harry has really struggled but I'm still rooting for him.

 

[JayNM]

Gotta love a fanbase that calls a 22 year old kid (whose played 13 games in the NFL), "trash".

Harry has really struggled but I'm still rooting for him.

We have this kid on my Soccer team that became the youngest guy to ever score in a professional international game for the club (over a 100 years of history too)

Guy at 17 did stuff with the ball that i never could, never will.

The forum Im in wants him gone, bc at 18, appearently he is trash and will never become anything at all.

Dont worry dude, its all fanbases

 

[Triumph]

DK Metcalf has Russell Wilson throwing to him.

Our weapons have who?

How did Randy Moss look on the Raiders in 2006, what did he do the following season?

Metcalf has blazing speed and gets open.

Russ Wilson couldnt turn Harry into Allen Robinson. Nobody could.

 

[Wozzy]

Our weapons had Tom Brady throwing to them last season. It's essentially the same receivers this season. Am I missing something?

N'Keal missed 2/3rds of the season then came back to a QB who couldn't practice. Byrd wasn't here. Gunner didn't play last year except to return punts, Jakobi played well then was blackballed because someone pushed for Sanu. The OLine was a mess last year, really bad players were inserted when injuries occurred. TE's... they didn't have any for the first third of the season and no FB almost all season, they had a LB. Not close to this group, it was much worse last year and Tom threw for 4000 yards and 28 TD's.

This year's offense... the only thing missing is a QB. The O-Line is superior, the RB depth is great, the TE's we'll never know because they stand out there wide open and get ignored while Cam stands like a statue looking downfield, the WR's also get ignored but when he does throw he misses them by a mile, or gets N'Keal decapitated.

Cam sucks. You can't win or put up passing statistics with no QB. Tom with this year's team is undefeated, or maybe has one loss.

 

[Jangles]

Gotta love a fanbase that calls a 22 year old kid (whose played 13 games in the NFL), "trash".

Harry has really struggled but I'm still rooting for him.

My god you’re right. Hopefully his feelings aren’t too badly hurt if he reads this forum

let me find my pearls so we can clutch them together

 

[Wozzy]

Metcalf has blazing speed and gets open.

Russ Wilson couldnt turn Harry into Allen Robinson. Nobody could.

Blazing speed, like these guys...

N'Keal Harry
Height: 6027
Weight: 225
40 Yrd Dash: 4.53
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 27
Vertical Jump: 38.5
Broad Jump: 10'02"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.28
3-Cone Drill: 7.05

AJ Brown
Height: 6004
Weight: 226
40 Yrd Dash: 4.49
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 19
Vertical Jump: 36.5
Broad Jump: 10'00"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.25
3-Cone Drill: 7.00

Mike Evans
Height: 6046
Weight: 231
40 Yrd Dash: 4.53
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 12
Vertical Jump: 37.0
Broad Jump: 00'00"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.26
3-Cone Drill: 7.08

Mike Williams
Height: 6036
Weight: 218
40 Yrd Dash: 4.54
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 15
Vertical Jump: 32.5
Broad Jump: 10'01"
20 Yrd Shuttle:
3-Cone Drill:

They actually measure these guys prior to their rookie season. What these other three receivers have that Harry doesn't is a QB and opportunity. Harry's first year was lost due to injury, now he doesn't have a QB.

Edelman, Byrd and Harry looked good to start this season then Cam imploded... or was it that all three of them had their "speed" and "talent" magically disappear simultaneously?

Sounds legit...

 

[PatsBoy12]

N'Keal missed 2/3rds of the season then came back to a QB who couldn't practice. Byrd wasn't here. Gunner didn't play last year except to return punts, Jakobi played well then was blackballed because someone pushed for Sanu. The OLine was a mess last year, really bad players were inserted when injuries occurred. TE's... they didn't have any for the first third of the season and no FB almost all season, they had a LB. Not close to this group, it was much worse last year and Tom threw for 4000 yards and 28 TD's.

This year's offense... the only thing missing is a QB. The O-Line is superior, the RB depth is great, the TE's we'll never know because they stand out there wide open and get ignored while Cam stands like a statue looking downfield, the WR's also get ignored but when he does throw he misses them by a mile, or gets N'Keal decapitated.

Cam sucks. You can't win or put up passing statistics with no QB. Tom with this year's team is undefeated, or maybe has one loss.

Every team has issues. NE was not the only team battling injuries. NE's issues weren't exclusive to themselves. All of the stuff you listed is not why our receivers have been bad for a few years now. They're part of the story, but not the story.

I'm not discounting Cam sucks. That's obvious. But your premise is that the receivers would be better? Other than maybe Meyers, who has shown he has some game, what are you basing that on? Are you really campaigning for Harry? Why? What have you really seen that suggests he's NFL caliber to date? Are you campaigning for Ryan Izzo? The guy is a blocker and that's it. Are you campaigning for Gunner? I had high hopes for him, but the guy can't even get on the field as a receiver despite the marginal talent ahead of him.

Conversely, you're saying that not one of the guys chosen after Harry last season would have outperformed him in NE? McLaurin in WAS outperformed him last season, even when you adjust the numbers to account for Harry's absence, and is doing it again. DK Metcalf wouldn't have put up numbers last season? Hardman, who is playing on a loaded team and is probably a fifth option in that offense found his niche and is producing. Brown in TEN has Tannehill as his QB and, while admittedly playing better than Cam, is not great. Here wouldn't have put up numbers last season? I'm not buying it. Yes, Cam is a train wreck, but that's not the entirety of things when it comes to the receivers on this team. Sorry. I think any number of guys would have been better last season and maybe slightly this season, though again, I agree Cam is playing like trash. I have to believe any one of them would be worth at least one touchdown in a given game.

 

[TinhWoodhead]

How old is that video.

Last game, DK caught 2 passes for 23 yards and a 40% catch rate. Harry type stats.

was he doubled? he also save a td

 

[Wozzy]

Every team has issues. NE was not the only team battling injuries. NE's issues weren't exclusive to themselves. All of the stuff you listed is not why our receivers have been bad for a few years now. They're part of the story, but not the story.

I'm not discounting Cam sucks. That's obvious. But your premise is that the receivers would be better? Other than maybe Meyers, who has shown he has some game, what are you basing that on? Are you really campaigning for Harry? Why? What have you really seen that suggests he's NFL caliber to date? Are you campaigning for Ryan Izzo? The guy is a blocker and that's it. Are you campaigning for Gunner? I had high hopes for him, but the guy can't even get on the field as a receiver despite the marginal talent ahead of him.

Conversely, you're saying that not one of the guys chosen after Harry last season would have outperformed him in NE? McLaurin in WAS outperformed him last season, even when you adjust the numbers to account for Harry's absence, and is doing it again. DK Metcalf wouldn't have put up numbers last season? Hardman, who is playing on a loaded team and is probably a fifth option in that offense found his niche and is producing. Brown in TEN has Tannehill as his QB and, while admittedly playing better than Cam, is not great. Here wouldn't have put up numbers last season? I'm not buying it. Yes, Cam is a train wreck, but that's not the entirety of things when it comes to the receivers on this team. Sorry. I think any number of guys would have been better last season and maybe slightly this season, though again, I agree Cam is playing like trash. I have to believe any one of them would be worth at least one touchdown in a given game.

Yes Cam sucks, that is obvious. It's also obvious he was marginally better to start the year, and who else was marginally better or showed some game as you called it... all the receivers were producing at that time with a marginally better QB. The WR group as a whole was catching 70% of their targets despite some passes that were definitely not easy to catch.

Jakobi Meyers... he entered a game because Cam threw Harry a suicide ball, he also came in with a big deficit where Cam had to throw or the game was over. So now he "showed some game" because he caught a few... Harry caught 5 balls in week one, 8 balls in week two... then Cam imploded. Edelman had a career high in yards in week two... then Cam imploded and stopped throwing to the right which happens to be Edelman's side. Byrd has been open all season and caught 6 balls in week 2... then Cam imploded.

So I ask you and all the "weapons suck" crowd; what's more plausible, every receiver and TE on this roster had their talent levels magically drained like on a video game after week 2... or Cam imploded?

I don't believe in talent levels that fluctuate, that ebb and flow each week. Something either is or isn't. Video evidence has shown without question there are receivers wide open all over the field for this team. Cam has admitted he has "missed guys" and is the reason the offense looks like dog meat, he said he has sucked. Is he lying?

These are Randy Moss's stats from 2006 when fans and media pundits were saying they thought he was washed up, then below that are his stats from 2007. Were his talent levels low, did he need to find the talent fairy to replenish his stock... or did his QB's (Andrew Walter, Aaron Brooks) just suck balls in 2006?

 

[PatsBoy12]

Yes Cam sucks, that is obvious. It's also obvious he was marginally better to start the year, and who else was marginally better or showed some game as you called it... all the receivers were producing at that time with a marginally better QB.

Jakobi Meyers... he entered a game because Cam threw Harry a suicide ball, he also came in with a big deficit where Cam had to throw or the game was over. So now he showed some game because he caught a few... Harry caught 5 balls in week one, 8 balls in week two... then Cam imploded. Edelman had a career high in yards in week two... then Cam imploded and stopped throwing to the right which happens to be Edelman's side. Byrd has been open all season and caught 6 ball in week 2... then Cam imploded.

So what's more plausible, every receiver and TE on this roster had their talent levels magically drained like on a video game... or Cam imploded?

I don't believe in talent levels that fluctuate, that ebb and flow each week. Something either is or isn't. Video evidence has shown without question there are receivers wide open all over the field for this team. Cam has admitted he has "missed guys" and is the reason the offense looks like dogma, he has said he has sucked. Is he lying?

These are Randy Mosses stats from 2006 when fans and media pundits were saying they thought he was washed up, then below that are his stats from 2007. Were his talent levels low, did he need to find the talent fairy to replenish his stock... or did his QB's just suck balls in 2006?

Randy Moss stats? HE'S RANDY MOSS! Lol Are you implying any one of our receivers is Randy Moss with a simple change at QB?

Again, not discounting Cam's play impacts the receivers. Yes, their numbers have been impacting. Yes, there have been guys open. I'm seeing what you and everyone else with two eyes and any sense can see. Where you and I diverge is where you compare it to DK Metcalf and Russell Wilson. I don't care what the measurables say, there is NOTHING I've seen that suggests Harry would be doing what Metcalf is doing if you switched them for one another. Metcalf looks like an NFL receiver and I'd bet he'd look like that on just about any team. I cannot say the same about Harry at this time. Even with the ball in his hands he looks nothing like any of the other receivers mentioned. Meyers, and I really like the kid, would barely be a fourth option on half the teams in the league and yet, we are pining for him to get more playing time in NE. We have no idea what Gunner is or isn't, and that says a lot when you consider our coaches have seen him in practices. If he was blowing them away, he'd probably be on the field. They'd rather play any number of (underwhelming) guys ahead of him.

I suspect we're not that far off from agreeing in some aspects, unless you just want to argue your point no matter what. I just don't (and won't) agree that the entirety of the story of the Pats WR woes are tied to Cam Newton. They had Tom Brady last season and couldn't make it work. Harry missing 2/3 of the season isn't why he plays the way he plays. He's just not very good right now regardless of the QB. I agree Meyers was inexplicably taken out of the rotation. The comment you put in quotation marks had nothing to do with the last game. If old threads reappeared, you'd see where I was saying that at the time. It infuriated me when they stopped going to Meyers LAST season. But he's still just a guy and always will be. Gunner... we'll see. I was hoping for Amendola 1.5 and been disappointed. Jules... I don't know if it's physical or mental at this point. The receivers are what they are, and I think a different QB only marginally changes that. You're campaigning for guys who have legitimately proven to be more marginal guys no matter who is throwing the ball. Put TB12 back on this team, with all the improvements you listed in your previous post, and I'm almost willing to guarantee that any difference would be by a slim margin. You mention his 24 TD's last season... he has 18 through seven games this season. That right there is speaking pretty clearly about talent disparity.

 

[lancerman]

Here’s a photo from the historic workout

 

[203Pat]

DK Metcalf has Russell Wilson throwing to him.

Our weapons have who?

How did Randy Moss look on the Raiders in 2006, what did he do the following season?

Is this a serious post?

 

[PatsBoy12]

Is this a serious post?

It apparently is... considering his responses to my initial response. I'm bowing out of it because I see where it's going now.

 

[Wozzy]

Randy Moss stats? HE'S RANDY MOSS! Lol Are you implying any one of our receivers is Randy Moss with a simple change at QB?

Again, not discounting Cam's play impacts the receivers. Yes, their numbers have been impacting. Yes, there have been guys open. I'm seeing what you and everyone else with two eyes and any sense can see. Where you and I diverge is where you compare it to DK Metcalf and Russell Wilson. I don't care what the measurables say, there is NOTHING I've seen that suggests Harry would be doing what Metcalf is doing if you switched them for one another. Metcalf looks like an NFL receiver and I'd bet he'd look like that on just about any team. I cannot say the same about Harry at this time. Even with the ball in his hands he looks nothing like any of the other receivers mentioned. Meyers, and I really like the kid, would barely be a fourth option on half the teams in the league and yet, we are pining for him to get more playing time in NE. We have no idea what Gunner is or isn't, and that says a lot when you consider our coaches have seen him in practices. If he was blowing them away, he'd probably be on the field. They'd rather play any number of (underwhelming) guys ahead of him.

I suspect we're not that far off from agreeing in some aspects, unless you just want to argue your point no matter what. I just don't (and won't) agree that the entirety of the story of the Pats WR woes are tied to Cam Newton. They had Tom Brady last season and couldn't make it work. Harry missing 2/3 of the season isn't why he plays the way he plays. He's just not very good right now regardless of the QB. I agree Meyers was inexplicably taken out of the rotation. The comment you put in quotation marks had nothing to do with the last game. If old threads reappeared, you'd see where I was saying that at the time. It infuriated me when they stopped going to Meyers LAST season. But he's still just a guy and always will be. Gunner... we'll see. I was hoping for Amendola 1.5 and been disappointed. Jules... I don't know if it's physical or mental at this point. The receivers are what they are, and I think a different QB only marginally changes that. You're campaigning for guys who have legitimately proven to be more marginal guys no matter who is throwing the ball. Put TB12 back on this team, with all the improvements you listed in your previous post, and I'm almost willing to guarantee that any difference would be by a slim margin. You mention his 24 TD's last season... he has 18 through seven games this season. That right there is speaking pretty clearly about talent disparity.

If Randy Moss, the greatest WR outside of Rice, can be debilitated by poor QB play, then so can Harry, Edelman and Byrd. Nobody compared anyone to Moss.

 

[RodThePat]

If Randy Moss, the greatest WR outside of Rice, can be debilitated by poor QB play, then so can Harry, Edelman and Byrd. Nobody compares anyone to Moss.

Randy Moss also made Dante Culpepper look like Dan Marino and our receiving core is now comprised mostly of players who made Tom Brady look like Kirk Cousins. Your point doesn't stand because we've seen what most of those guys looked like with the greatest QB who ever played last year, and it wasn't good. Unless you think Byrd, a former 4th stringer in an average offense, would be elevated by top tier QB play. He's the only guy getting snaps who wasn't here when the offense struggled last year.

 

[Wozzy]

Randy Moss also made Dante Culpepper look like Dan Marino and our receiving core is now comprised mostly of players who made Tom Brady look like Kirk Cousins. Your point doesn't stand because we've seen what most of those guys looked like with the greatest QB who ever played last year, and it wasn't good. Unless you think Byrd, a former 4th stringer in an average offense, would be elevated by top tier QB play. He's the only guy getting snaps who wasn't here when the offense struggled last year.

Culpepper had a strong arm, he wasn't 31 year old Cam. Tom played what 5 games with Harry and two with Jakobi. It's not the same situation even if some of the same player are still here.