Gruden can't let go

[Off The Grid]

Exactly. The FaceGuarding "Penalty" essentially gave the Colts 4 points, which changed the dynamics of the game. When the Patriots subsequently scored to advance to 28-21, it should've been 28-17. That changes the dynamics of the contest considerably, and a choke artist like Manning would've pressed.

Pressing leads to Picks. That's just how it goes.

If I am not mistaken, the penalty gave them a first and goal from the 1, where they obviously got a TD out of it.

So, that was 7 points, not 4.

Well, seeing's how the difference between a Field Goal In Hand and virtually giving them a TouchDown is 7-3=4...that was 4 points, not 7. See how that works?

Let me know if you need help with the math.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

I get that Al was pissed off. Thats his prerogative. I was just saying the narrative of Gruden shooting his way out of town is not accurate.

Then why does Gruden love Al And Mark Davis so much when the entire NFL is laughing at them behind their backs?

You keep doubling down on this topic and painting yourself into a corner.

These older owners that want to live off an outdated legacy, pre Cap Era, refusing to follow BB's genius recipe, is a big reason why the NFL product sucks right now. Their arrogance is part of the problem. Entitled, silver-spooned, not willing to pay or work hard.

Like, why is Davis so in love with a coach who has never successfully been a part of building something? It's a gimmick move to get Las Vegas hyped up. End of story.

I find it super funny how people keep running in the other direction, not wanting to mirror BB's blueprint, because they are so jealous of it, and they think there has to be a superior way. Just has to be! Just ask 90% of the league that thinks they're as good as NE, and then get undressed in the postseason.

How is GB doing? What about Baltimore? How many times have we heard about how great Ted Thompson and Ozzie Newsome are in recent years? Meanwhile, I scratch my head, say how poor their drafting has been and how poor their salary allocation to which positions have been, and Newsome has to be next to go.

How about Seattle? Schneider failed to deal guys like Bennett and paid BOTH Thomas and Chancellor, along with Sherman. TWO of those guys should have been dealt for picks, once they had to pay Wilson. Again, that's a fail and now here comes the big fade for Seattle.

You're showing you don't get it as much as Davis, Gruden, etc, don't get it. I've also heard Gruden speak enough on MNF or wherever else, where his gushing over players that aren't as good as he thinks they are, will end up costing him with his input with McKenzie as the new coach.

You seem to have taken the hype machine with Gruden, but there are countless of NFL fans who agree with me, so just give it a rest already trying to make it seem like your opinion is a fact, when Gruden's overall resume remains fairly mediocre, especially in Oakland.

He's built nothing. He's like a poor man's Phil Jackson.

Also, the media LOVES coaches like Rex Ryan, Jon Gruden, John Harbaugh, Dungy, etc, because they kiss the media's butt and they give them a lot to work with, but all of these people share one word:

Overrated.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Then why does Gruden love Al And Mark Davis so much when the entire NFL is laughing at them behind their backs?

You keep doubling down on this topic and painting yourself into a corner.

I could care less what corner I get painted in. Gruden did a good job for OAK and Mark recognizes that. Maybe he thinks his father f-ed up? Who knows? A handful of teams have asked Gruden to return to coaching he said no every single time so its not like Mark is paying $10m to Rod Rust. He came back because he likes the Raiders. He likes Mark and hes being paid $10 a year. I bet he has personnel control too.

These older owners that want to live off an outdated legacy, pre Cap Era, refusing to follow BB's genius recipe, is a big reason why the NFL product sucks right now. Their arrogance is part of the problem. Entitled, silver-spooned, not willing to pay or work hard.

No one ever accused Mark Davis of being brilliant however hes going with Gruden for the reasons I mentioned. I'm sure part of it is to endear himself to OAK and add a hot name coach for Vegas. The fact that he did a good job in OAK makes this a reasonable decision.

Like, why is Davis so in love with a coach who has never successfully been a part of building something? It's a gimmick move to get Las Vegas hyped up. End of story.

We will disagree on this forever. Gruden was intimately building OAK and when TB players were old and the cap was killing them, they fired McKay and they went 11-5, 4-12, 9-7, 9-7 without a QB. Thats not great but it isn't awful and a lot better than others.

I find it super funny how people keep running in the other direction, not wanting to mirror BB's blueprint, because they are so jealous of it, and they think there has to be a superior way. Just has to be! Just ask 90% of the league that thinks they're as good as NE, and then get undressed in the postseason.

Teams are dumb. NE has the best model. The problem is only one man can make it work.

How is GB doing? What about Baltimore? How many times have we heard about how great Ted Thompson and Ozzie Newsome are in recent years? Meanwhile, I scratch my head, say how poor their drafting has been and how poor their salary allocation to which positions have been, and Newsome has to be next to go.

GB had 8 consecutive winning seasons before this year so I'm not going to kill them too badly. Clearly Thompson was not doing a great job personnel wise and McCarthy seems to be on the hot seat.

Ozzie was between a rock and a hard place when he needed to give a middling Qb $100m.

How about Seattle? Schneider failed to deal guys like Bennett and paid BOTH Thomas and Chancellor, along with Sherman. TWO of those guys should have been dealt for picks, once they had to pay Wilson. Again, that's a fail and now here comes the big fade for Seattle.

SEA is on the downswing. Horrible drafting.

You're showing you don't get it as much as Davis, Gruden, etc, don't get it. I've also heard Gruden speak enough on MNF or wherever else, where his gushing over players that aren't as good as he thinks they are, will end up costing him with his input with McKenzie as the new coach.

I said to you before you are buying into MNF Gruden and not HC and de-facto GM Gruden. He won't bash anyone and he'll hype everyone because hes on TV and pushing a product.

You seem to have taken the hype machine with Gruden, but there are countless of NFL fans who agree with me, so just give it a rest already trying to make it seem like your opinion is a fact, when Gruden's overall resume remains fairly mediocre, especially in Oakland.

His career record and accomplishments disagree with you and those other fans.

He's built nothing. He's like a poor man's Phil Jackson.

A ridiculous statement. Please list how many championships the Bulls and Lakers (after Pat Reilly) won before Phil Jackson took over as HC. Hes burnt out in NYC and is only there for the $.

Also, the media LOVES coaches like Rex Ryan, Jon Gruden, John Harbaugh, Dungy, etc, because they kiss the media's butt and they give them a lot to work with, but all of these people share one word:

Overrated.

Whatever.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

I could care less what corner I get painted in. Gruden did a good job for OAK and Mark recognizes that. Maybe he thinks his father f-ed up? Who knows? A handful of teams have asked Gruden to return to coaching he said no every single time so its not like Mark is paying $10m to Rod Rust. He came back because he likes the Raiders. He likes Mark and hes being paid $10 a year. I bet he has personnel control too.



No one ever accused Mark Davis of being brilliant however hes going with Gruden for the reasons I mentioned. I'm sure part of it is to endear himself to OAK and add a hot name coach for Vegas. The fact that he did a good job in OAK makes this a reasonable decision.



We will disagree on this forever. Gruden was intimately building OAK and when TB players were old and the cap was killing them, they fired McKay and they went 11-5, 4-12, 9-7, 9-7 without a QB. Thats not great but it isn't awful and a lot better than others.



Teams are dumb. NE has the best model. The problem is only one man can make it work.



GB had 8 consecutive winning seasons before this year so I'm not going to kill them too badly. Clearly Thompson was not doing a great job personnel wise and McCarthy seems to be on the hot seat.

Ozzie was between a rock and a hard place when he needed to give a middling Qb $100m.



SEA is on the downswing. Horrible drafting.



I said to you before you are buying into MNF Gruden and not HC and de-facto GM Gruden. He won't bash anyone and he'll hype everyone because hes on TV and pushing a product.



His career record and accomplishments disagree with you and those other fans.



A ridiculous statement. Please list how many championships the Bulls and Lakers (after Pat Reilly) won before Phil Jackson took over as HC. Hes burnt out in NYC and is only there for the $.



Whatever.

No, Ozzie was not between a rock and hared place. He's lucky Kap choked at the goal line in SB 47, because he was utterly irresponsible allowing Herman Munster the leverage in a spiking QB market. That's not an excuse.

Budgeting is part of the job. You just made my point for me.

Hint: Gruden is wildly overrated as are almost every single GM and Coach in this league.

 

[RobertWeathers]

No, Ozzie was not between a rock and hared place. He's lucky Kap choked at the goal line in SB 47, because he was utterly irresponsible allowing Herman Munster the leverage in a spiking QB market. That's not an excuse.

OK so he should have cut Flacco?

Budgeting is part of the job. You just made my point for me.

How so? Flaccos price went up 20% after the SB and they had enough cap $ to do it which is why Ozzie had to sign him to a higher amount. They did budget him and the were able to fit him and went to the divisional playoffs in 2014.

Hint: Gruden is wildly overrated as are almost every single GM and Coach in this league.

If you say so.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

OK so he should have cut Flacco?



How so? Flaccos price went up 20% after the SB and they had enough cap $ to do it which is why Ozzie had to sign him to a higher amount. They did budget him and the were able to fit him and went to the divisional playoffs in 2014.



If you say so.

Wow.

Umm, hard is it to understand that in 2010, into the Lockout, the union put Brady and Brees's name right at the top of the lawsuit, where they would be used to make sure they got maximum value for QBs into the next CBA? They were going to get smoked in the new CBA, because Sanchez was making 17 mil in 2009 and Brady was making 7 mil.

This means, Ozzie had to have known the price was going up for the PROVEN QBs. Was Flacco a franchise QB for them or not? Flacco then had all the leverage.

Then, Flacco does 12 TDs, 0 INTs in the postseason, and Ozzie got caught already up against the cap with old men Lewis, Reed and Suggs. Translation? He never budgeted. Do you think BB would do that with Brady? lol

Trust me when I tell you, I am light years ahead of you on the financials when it comes to team-building, markets, etc. You clearly have no idea what I am talking about because you keep defending arrogant, risky and poor GM work, that basically has sent the entire league into a cap hell, carrying mediocre or slightly above average QBs who are draining each team's cap position.

It's terrible work. Baltimore will miss the postseason for the 4th year in a row next year because of this awful contract, but you keep defending it.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Wow.
Umm, hard is it to understand that in 2010, into the Lockout, the union put Brady and Brees's name right at the top of the lawsuit, where they would be used to make sure they got maximum value for QBs into the next CBA? They were going to get smoked in the new CBA, because Sanchez was making 17 mil in 2009 and Brady was making 7 mil.

This means, Ozzie had to have known the price was going up for the PROVEN QBs. Was Flacco a franchise QB for them or not? Flacco then had all the leverage.

Of course he did which is why I said he was between a rock and a hard place. You are talking in circles.

Then, Flacco does 12 TDs, 0 INTs in the postseason, and Ozzie got caught already up against the cap with old men Lewis, Reed and Suggs. Translation? He never budgeted. Do you think BB would do that with Brady? lol

Reed and Lewis retired. They came off the books with little dead cap.

Since redoing his deal in 2015 freeing up $2.95m in cap space, Suggs has 31 sacks. I don't think Ozzie made a bad decision at all on Suggs.

Trust me when I tell you, I am light years ahead of you on the financials when it comes to team-building, markets, etc.

Advice: Don't put on airs when you don't know the facts.

Funny you say you know more than me about the cap when you don't even know when it was implemented before/after Gruden.

You clearly have no idea what I am talking about because you keep defending arrogant, risky and poor GM work, that basically has sent the entire league into a cap hell, carrying mediocre or slightly above average QBs who are draining each team's cap position.

Not accurate Mr. Financials, Team-Building and Markets Expert

Joe Flacco is still getting blamed for his contract and it's time to stop

It's terrible work. Baltimore will miss the postseason for the 4th year in a row next year because of this awful contract, but you keep defending it.

See link above.Flacco sucks. If he performed like he did in 2013 now this would not be a discussion. The discussion is about Ozzie and the cap.

I didn't say the contract was a good one. The question was around budgeting which Ozzie did properly. See link if you want to be informed.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

If I am not mistaken, the penalty gave them a first and goal from the 1, where they obviously got a TD out of it.

So, that was 7 points, not 4.

Remember the phantom PI call on Samuel with textbook inside coverage on Ashley Lelie in Denver in the divisional in January 2006? The ball landed like 5 yards behind the end zone, which makes it uncatchable, yet somehow Samuel interfered? And, then, the Ben Watson great play where the ball went over the pylon, which is a touchback, but they miraculously tried to lie to the NFL customer, and place at the 1 yard line, as if the ball went 90 degrees to the left to be spotted there? WTF? How do these incorrect calls, factually so, always happens to the Pats since 2006?

Note how all this all started with Goodell coming on board.

On August 8, 2006, Goodell was chosen to succeed Tagliabue; he assumed office on September 1, the date Tagliabue was required to step down.

It certainly looked like the fix was in at Denver that night. But, perhaps it was just blatantly incompetent officiating. We may have been "due."

Tagliabue was no friend of the Patriots.