Going Into Free Agency

[mgteich]

I think that we are likely to carry 7 DL's, 8 LB's and 8 DB's. Do you agree?

CB: Bodden, McCourty, Arrington, Butler/Wilhite
S: Meriweather, Chung, Sanders
CB/S: Darling
==========================================

The issue is counting. We will carry a couple of STers. For example, we might carry Sergio Brown and Page. That would be 10 defensive backs. For me, it is not a matter of shorting other defensive positions. It is a matter of what "positions" the ST specialists play, even though they will rarely play any position at all.

You put Dowling down as a CB. Most people feel he'll be a safety in the long run. I think it will be hard for the Pats to carry 9 DBs this year, unless they go short on the D-line.

 

[mgteich]

I think that we are likely to carry 7 DL's, 8 LB's and 8 DB's. Do you agree?

CB: Bodden, McCourty, Arrington, Butler/Wilhite
S: Meriweather, Chung, Sanders
CB/S: Darling
==========================================

The issue is counting. We will carry a couple of STers. For example, we might carry Sergio Brown and Page. That would be 10 defensive backs. For me, it is not a matter of shorting other defensive positions. It is a matter of what "positions" the ST specialists play, even though they will rarely play any position at all.

You put Dowling down as a CB. Most people feel he'll be a safety in the long run. I think it will be hard for the Pats to carry 9 DBs this year, unless they go short on the D-line.

 

[Oswlek]

I think that we are likely to carry 7 DL's, 8 LB's and 8 DB's. Do you agree?

CB: Bodden, McCourty, Arrington, Butler/Wilhite
S: Meriweather, Chung, Sanders
CB/S: Darling
==========================================

The issue is counting. We will carry a couple of STers. For example, we might carry Sergio Brown and Page. That would be 10 defensive backs. For me, it is not a matter of shorting other defensive positions. It is a matter of what "positions" the ST specialists play, even though they will rarely play any position at all.

Page was beginning to see "starter" quality minutes before getting hurt. Assuming he sticks around, he'll be more than just a STer.

That said, I do agree with your overall point that the team is likely to keep more DBs. The changes in wedge rules seem to point towards more agile DBs in ST coverage and less big LB types (like Woods).

 

[Professor Frink]

I think Kaczur is a goner unless he drops his cap $2mm.

I agree about Pryor, but I think you should add Deaderick in and say Brace/Love/Deaderick are fighting for 2 spots.

If Kaczur is gone who are our starting tackles? Maybe if Matt Light is resigned but that is unlikely IMO.

As for Deadrick, I certainly don't think he is guaranteed a roster spot, but I think he is safer than Brace/Love because he is a better fit for RDE than either of them.

 

[Oswlek]

If Kaczur is gone who are our starting tackles? Maybe if Matt Light is resigned but that is unlikely IMO.

As for Deadrick, I certainly don't think he is guaranteed a roster spot, but I think he is safer than Brace/Love because he is a better fit for RDE than either of them.

If Light is re-signed, then Kaczur is all but done, no matter what he is willing to do with his contract. If not, I just don't think Kaczur is that much better than the alternatives, and I expect Solder will be starting almost immediately.

I do get the concern, which is why I think they'd prefer Kaczur to just take a $2mm paycut to stick around.

Regarding Deaderick, he showed more last year, but he also fell off the cliff and was clearly doing something behind the scenes that bothered the team (I recall it being immature and showing up late for meetings multiple times). I also think Brace is viewed higher within the clubhouse than he is within the fan ranks. I personally don't see him being on the bubble at all.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Anyone have any opinion on the Kaczur-to-guard experiment that ended prematurely last season? The Pats certainly aren't over-supplied with guards at present.

 

[Professor Frink]

If Light is re-signed, then Kaczur is all but done, no matter what he is willing to do with his contract. If not, I just don't think Kaczur is that much better than the alternatives, and I expect Solder will be starting almost immediately.

I do get the concern, which is why I think they'd prefer Kaczur to just take a $2mm paycut to stick around.

Regarding Deaderick, he showed more last year, but he also fell off the cliff and was clearly doing something behind the scenes that bothered the team (I recall it being immature and showing up late for meetings multiple times). I also think Brace is viewed higher within the clubhouse than he is within the fan ranks. I personally don't see him being on the bubble at all.

Expecting Solder to start right away is dangerous IMO. I'm not saying it can't happen, it's just not something that should be relied upon. Perhaps if it was a normal year it wouldn't be much of a stretch, but no camps or OTAs puts every rookie behind. I think we should be pleased if he can start getting some playing time by mid-season.

 

[Oswlek]

Expecting Solder to start right away is dangerous IMO. I'm not saying it can't happen, it's just not something that should be relied upon. Perhaps if it was a normal year it wouldn't be much of a stretch, but no camps or OTAs puts every rookie behind. I think we should be pleased if he can start getting some playing time by mid-season.

Agreed. Going mostly with my gut on this one, and it tells me they love the kid and think he'll be ready.

 

[cstjohn17]

Agreed. Going mostly with my gut on this one, and it tells me they love the kid and think he'll be ready.

Agreed, he starts Day 1, it is almost a mortal lock.

 

[jeffbiologist]

All of these would be moves dont happen in a vaccuum. A DB gets hurt for the season every year, teams scout our roster and we should be gaining some draft picks from someone currently on the roster. Will it be a major move like with Seymour?? Who knows, but you have to figure a guy like Faulk could be brought in late ala Seau. There will be cap casualties and there will be some UDFA that no one heard of that makes the team too! FA vets will be added that push the slackers...up or out. I am still not set with our WRs, too many slot guys, I can seriously see a major shakeup trading Welker or the like. Buy low sell high. What I wouldnt do to swap Mankins for Woodley!!

 

[rookBoston]

The dynamics are logically viable?! Sorry dude, you have no idea what you're talking about.

First of all, cutting Bodden would free up about 400K, which means it wouldn't even save them enough to sign a vet to the minimum. But even if it did save them money, they wouldn't do it because he's a really good corner.

What is with people on this board wanting to cut quality veterans in the name of cap space? The Patriots are in good position cap wise, so there really isn't some urgency to cut good football players.

That's what Bodden, Alge Crumpler, and James Sanders are. Good football players. All three of them are among the best 53 players on the roster, and believe it or not that still counts for something in Belichick's mind.

The Patriots are already one of the youngest teams in the league, they don't need to go around cutting some of the few proven players they have.

What's with the personal attack? "no idea what I'm talking about"? This is a f*ing message board, not a PhD thesis.

I had the same kind of reaction (minus the personal attack) when I speculated on this board that maybe BB would cut Ty Law. It didn't happen the offseason when I called it, happened the year after, but the dynamics made sense then too, and I promise the idea crossed BB's mind. Plus, Bodden is no Ty Law.

When the pre-camp roster at CB is 6 quality players deep, young and fast, no one's job is safe. Bodden hasn't seen the field in a long time, and there are more than few kids that might be excellent pros with some game experience, playing for $330k. Bodden might just lose the job on merit. And with his salary, ties will go to the young guy over the perennially injured vet.

This was not a random post. Give me some credit. I'm also the guy that insisted that Faulk, Crumpler and Sanders would make the team, and maybe Light too. So, don't assume I'm just cap hunting for it's own sake.

 

[Don Kipines]

Actually, I do expect Kaczur to be cut. With the addition of Solder and already having Maneri and LeVoir, I can see the Pats parting ways with Kaczur. Or trading him.

I agree about Sanders and Crumpler not being cut.

How do you decide that they will cut a former Super Bowl starter in favor of a guy, Maneri, whom none of us have ever seen play and who's never played a down at the position before?

 

[Oswlek]

What's with the personal attack? "no idea what I'm talking about"? This is a f*ing message board, not a PhD thesis.

I had the same kind of reaction (minus the personal attack) when I speculated on this board that maybe BB would cut Ty Law. It didn't happen the offseason when I called it, happened the year after, but the dynamics made sense then too, and I promise the idea crossed BB's mind. Plus, Bodden is no Ty Law.

When the pre-camp roster at CB is 6 quality players deep, young and fast, no one's job is safe. Bodden hasn't seen the field in a long time, and there are more than few kids that might be excellent pros with some game experience, playing for $330k. Bodden might just lose the job on merit. And with his salary, ties will go to the young guy over the perennially injured vet.

This was not a random post. Give me some credit. I'm also the guy that insisted that Faulk, Crumpler and Sanders would make the team, and maybe Light too. So, don't assume I'm just cap hunting for it's own sake.

A couple problems.

1) NE never cut Ty Law, his contract expired. He was nearing the end of his career, not the peak like Bodden is. And his contract was 2X what Bodden's is when the cap was 40% lower. Nothing remotely comparable about the two.

2) Who are these 6 quality players? Bodden, McCourty and then....

None of Arrington, Butler, Wilhite or Dowling have proven anything remotely close to Bodden as far as an outside receiver.

3) There are no "excellent pros with some game experience, playing for $330k" because the minimum salary is higher than that.

4) Due to dap recapture of Bodden's bonus, his cutting wouldn't generate enough cap savings to sign a rookie, let alone a vet.

5) One injured season does not constitute a "perennially injured vet". Bodden's injury was neither a long-term one nor one detrimental to a CB. It was actually stated that Bodden was physically ready to play by the playoffs, but only couldn't due to IR rules. He doesn't have a history of getting the injury with his other teams, either.

When every point is invalidated, it's not a good sign for your argument. :bricks:

 

[Mike the Brit]

What's with the personal attack? "no idea what I'm talking about"? This is a f*ing message board, not a PhD thesis.

Summer visitors. Either they'll learn some courtesy ... or they won't.

That said, I'd be truly shocked if Bodden were cut. The parallel with Ty Law is way off. Bodden is a very good corner indeed (and a good influence in the locker-room, so far as one can tell) recently signed to a long-term contract.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

A couple problems.

1) NE never cut Ty Law, his contract expired. He was nearing the end of his career, not the peak like Bodden is. And his contract was 2X what Bodden's is when the cap was 40% lower. Nothing remotely comparable about the two.

2) Who are these 6 quality players? Bodden, McCourty and then....

None of Arrington, Butler, Wilhite or Dowling have proven anything remotely close to Bodden as far as an outside receiver.

3) There are no "excellent pros with some game experience, playing for $330k" because the minimum salary is higher than that.

4) Due to dap recapture of Bodden's bonus, his cutting wouldn't generate enough cap savings to sign a rookie, let alone a vet.

5) One injured season does not constitute a "perennially injured vet". Bodden's injury was neither a long-term one nor one detrimental to a CB. It was actually stated that Bodden was physically ready to play by the playoffs, but only couldn't due to IR rules. He doesn't have a history of getting the injury with his other teams, either.

When every point is invalidated, it's not a good sign for your argument. :bricks:

Although the Pats aren't likely to cut Bodden, if they did, he'd never make it through waivers. Wouldn't that mean his entire cap hit would be picked up by the signing team?

 

[DaBruinz]

What's with the personal attack? "no idea what I'm talking about"? This is a f*ing message board, not a PhD thesis.

I had the same kind of reaction (minus the personal attack) when I speculated on this board that maybe BB would cut Ty Law. It didn't happen the offseason when I called it, happened the year after, but the dynamics made sense then too, and I promise the idea crossed BB's mind. Plus, Bodden is no Ty Law.

When the pre-camp roster at CB is 6 quality players deep, young and fast, no one's job is safe. Bodden hasn't seen the field in a long time, and there are more than few kids that might be excellent pros with some game experience, playing for $330k. Bodden might just lose the job on merit. And with his salary, ties will go to the young guy over the perennially injured vet.

This was not a random post. Give me some credit. I'm also the guy that insisted that Faulk, Crumpler and Sanders would make the team, and maybe Light too. So, don't assume I'm just cap hunting for it's own sake.

Why do you have to make sh!t up? Bodden is not a "perennially injured vet" as you put it. He missed 1 season due to a shoulder issue. Losing his job on MERIT? There is no CB on this team, other than McCourty, who is better than Bodden.

And, yes, BB would look at the $400K savings against the cap and say it's not worth it unless Bodden has totally forgotten how to play football. Which isn't likely.

And before you go patting yourself on the back about Ty Law, that was a different situation since the Pats were looking at significantly more money in savings..

 

[Oswlek]

Although the Pats aren't likely to cut Bodden, if they did, he'd never make it through waivers. Wouldn't that mean his entire cap hit would be picked up by the signing team?

Barring a change to the CBA on this issue, players with 4 vested years of service are exempt from waivers and immediately become free agents if released.

Edit: There is an exception to this rule that I am forgetting right now, but I believe it has to do with guys released later in the season.

 

[DaBruinz]

How do you decide that they will cut a former Super Bowl starter in favor of a guy, Maneri, whom none of us have ever seen play and who's never played a down at the position before?

First off, They wouldn't be cutting Kaczur for Maneri. Kaczur, right now, is the #3 OT. Maneri would be the #4.

Next, it has been 4 years since Kaczur was a "Superbowl starter." He's had issues with pain med addiction and hasn't been healthy. He also has a cap savings of about 2.6 million (3.095 - 450K) is cut/traded.

Would it be a risk to go with such a young set of tackles in Vollmer, Solder, LeVoir, and Maneri? Yes. But at the same time, LeVoir proved to be capable in spot situations before.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

Barring a change to the CBA on this issue, players with 4 vested years of service are exempt from waivers and immediately become free agents if released.

Edit: There is an exception to this rule that I am forgetting right now, but I believe it has to do with guys released later in the season.

Thanks for the info. Wish I had the time to research the exception. Randy went through waivers pretty early last season.

 

[DaBruinz]

Thanks for the info. Wish I had the time to research the exception. Randy went through waivers pretty early last season.

I am fairly sure you are mistaken. It was November 1st when Randy Moss was waived by the Vikings. That was after the Trade Deadline.

I believe every player has to clear waivers after the trade deadline and before the start of the new season.